Tacking with 3rd and 1st rate ships.

[Hjl]

Hi everyone,

I am having difficulty tacking the larger ships in the game into the wind. Frigates and sloops are easy, but 1st and 3rd rate ships are difficult. Does anyone have a guide?

Thanks.

[Bligh]

Get as close to the wind as you can, and then turn into the wind a sharply as you can. The card taking you back should then get you across the wind and out of it without the next card having to be played from the back.
Rob.

[Herkybird]

It is very difficult tacking into the wind with the larger ships, just keep turning the same way and the red edged cards will turn the ship about...as long as you are reading the cards correctly! :thumbsup:

[Hjl]

I've got some numbers from measuring the angles on the cards in degrees.

Card D

Turn. I II III
2 L 39 33 29
3 L 30 30 30
4 L 10 10 10
5 L 0 0 0
6 R. 10 10 10
7 R 30 30 30
8 R 39 33 29

6+ 63
4- 63

[Hjl]

Card H

Turn. I II III
3 L 29 29 29
4 L 10 12 15
5 L 0 0 0
6 R. 10 12 15
7 R 29 29 29

6+ 63
4- 63

[David Manley]

When you say you have difficulty in tacking, what exactly do you mean?

[Hjl]

I have difficulty making much headway with large ships.

I worked this out with a protractor and traced out the line an H deck 1st rate ship takes while heading directly into the wind.

21369

I can't help it. Whenever I start a new game I an compelled to analyze it mathematically...

[David Manley]

What you have there doesn't seem unreasonable for a square rigged ship. Performance to windward wasn't spectacular, for obvious reasons

[Hjl]

Here is the plot for a 3rd rate. D deck

21370

[Hjl]

So the angle a 3rd must turn to avoid backing is >110 deg

A 1st is even worse, 124 deg

21371

This means that it is impossible to turn through the wind in one turn, you will have to back up for a turn

[Herkybird]

I see little advantage in tacking in a game. It is possible to head upwind while still in the orange zone. This is best done at the start of a game as its not easy when under the guns of the enemy! Thereafter, turning downwind has the advantage of giving your ship speed. :takecover:

[Bligh]

I see little advantage in tacking in a game. It is possible to head upwind while still in the orange zone. This is best done at the start of a game as its not easy when under the guns of the enemy! Thereafter, turning downwind has the advantage of giving your ship speed. :takecover:

Well it was good enough for Nelson at St Vincent after all. So who would gainsay you Richard?:wink:
Rob.

[Herkybird]

Even my solo system sometimes makes ships tack if the enemy is upwind, so I am not totally averse to it!
At St Vincent, if I recall, the ships in the English fleet turned through the wind, rather than doing a repeated tack like a yacht, as Hugh appeared to be suggesting! :question:

[Hjl]

Yea, I think that repeated tacking in combat is a very quick way to get raked to oblivion in only a few turns!

[Herkybird]

Yes, one of my club opponents tried sitting in irons for most of a game, trying to get shots in...he was blasted to oblivion in fairly short order by my sides maneuvering vessels! :cannonboom::takecover::surrender:

[David Manley]

So the angle a 3rd must turn to avoid backing is >110 deg

A 1st is even worse, 124 deg

21371

This means that it is impossible to turn through the wind in one turn, you will have to back up for a turn

Seems OK, and a good illustration as to why wearing was often used to change course across the wind.

SOG actually makes it rather easier to tack than many AoS rules. Success is always guaranteed unless you are suffering the effects of a broken mast

[fredmiracle]

If you haven't already seen them, you may be interested in some previous discussions that touched on similar topics

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?2467-sailing-close-to-the-wind
http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?2899-Turning-into-amp-away-from-the-wind-(and-tweak-suggestion)
http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?3088-Tacking-action

I'm sure there are more I'm forgetting, but it's a start :happy:

[Union Jack]

Seems a fair assumption looking at your diagrams. First rates would probably have to be taken aback to assist crossing the wind. Then sail forward before repeating the manoeuvres. I think you have it just about right.

[Tordenskjold]

I think one of the challenges is when the wind is about to change, then it put a limit to my next choice to pick a maneuver card.

[Bligh]

I think one of the challenges is when the wind is about to change, then it put a limit to my next choice to pick a maneuver card.

A dilemma many Captains must have shared with you over the years Morten.:question:
Just think how much worse it must have been for an Admiral, who had just signaled his whole fleet to alter course.:erk::embarass:
Rob.:wink:

[Tordenskjold]

The story about HMS Defence and HMS St. George in 1811, is a true proof...about 120 ships is going from Hanö (Sweden) to England and so much sent wrong course the weather. Many ships was returning to Hanö. HMS Creesy had HMS St.George in tow most of the time despite the tough weather...THAT is amazing:hatsoff:
Morten