PDA

View Full Version : Mast Damage



Dobbs
03-11-2016, 16:07
Am I right in understanding that a 1st rate and a sloop of war have vastly different abilities to absorb hull damage, but take the same number of mast hits?

Herkybird
03-11-2016, 16:34
I assume the question queries the fact that the same pack of counters is used when drawing for damage on all classes of vessel?

If so, the system works by making the smaller broadside draw less counters, and therefore less special damage results. The balance of results being statistically the same between a broadside of 12 counters, and a sloop with 2.

I hope this answers the query correctly? :question:

Dobbs
03-11-2016, 17:31
Not quite, but nice try! For example, if a sloop engages another sloop, they will exhaust their hull damage long before they run out of masts. The same number of shots by a 1st rate will scratch another 1st rate, but inflict the same amount of mast hits, right?

Comte de Brueys
03-11-2016, 23:36
The chance to demast a 1st rate is highter, then to demast a sloop, because it collect much more damage tokens.

But I think this is very "historical" because ships of the line were hard to sink, fought long and were often demasted (& still in battle).

TexaS
03-11-2016, 23:53
If it was very light winds or if they were anchored in line a dismasted ship could continue fighting, but otherwise it would just drift downwind without any possibility of turning or directing it's broadside and a frigate could rake it at it's leisure. Ie dismasted ships often struck their colours. Usually it couldn't fire guns either until the sails were cleared due to the risk of fire.

Herkybird
03-12-2016, 03:15
Not quite, but nice try! For example, if a sloop engages another sloop, they will exhaust their hull damage long before they run out of masts. The same number of shots by a 1st rate will scratch another 1st rate, but inflict the same amount of mast hits, right?

Exactly right Dobbs! :thumbsup: As has been said, its right that a sloop should strike without taking any special damage at all, as it only takes a few damage counters to fill all the hull boxes on it.
Equally, it is often amusing to watch a sloop causing a fire/leak/de-mast on a first rate - though it has to be very lucky to do that with the damage it can cause! :minis:

Union Jack
03-12-2016, 05:16
If a sloop or frigate engages a SOL then it gets what it deserves. Unless it delivers a telling blow first. SD can be a lucky force leveller but luck needs to be on your side.

Tordenskjold
03-12-2016, 06:42
think it's well balanced. Furthermore, the choice of ammunition is as well also an important factor. I think :question:

KDz
03-12-2016, 08:53
The chance to demast a 1st rate is highter, then to demast a sloop, because it collect much more damage tokens.

But I think this is very "historical" because ships of the line were hard to sink, fought long and were often demasted (& still in battle).

I agree whit Sven and Morten.
Otherwise, we would have to use a lot more types of damage chips depending on the class of ships. I think that the current rules match perfect :minis:

Dobbs
03-12-2016, 13:12
I was just thinking about the probabilities. A 1st rate is more than 6 times more likely to lose its masts before sinking than a sloop.

Dobbs
03-12-2016, 13:13
Hmmm, that doesn't sound like proper grammar. ..

Herkybird
03-12-2016, 13:16
I was just thinking about the probabilities. A 1st rate is more than 6 times more likely to lose its masts before sinking than a sloop.

Yes, and it is more than 6 times as likely to be still afloat! :clap:

Bos'n
04-23-2016, 09:03
Dear Dobbs and Forum,

My American and Barbary fleets have a number of two masted ships and I have had to make-up some rules for these ships about mast damage.

Mast damage wasn't repaired so much as needing to be cut away to allow the ship to get rid of the drag of wreckage dragging in the water. That is why, I think, we use the wobbly gray cards until it is repaired.

If Meshuda, my Barbary schooner, or Argus, my American brig, takes a second, not third, mast damage then it is considered de-masted.

What are your thoughts dear Forum.

Dobbs
04-23-2016, 09:28
My American and Barbary fleets have a number of two masted ships and I have had to make-up some rules for these ships about mast damage.

Mast damage wasn't repaired so much as needing to be cut away to allow the ship to get rid of the drag of wreckage dragging in the water. That is why, I think, we use the wobbly gray cards until it is repaired.

If Meshuda, my Barbary schooner, or Argus, my American brig, takes a second, not third, mast damage then it is considered de-masted.



I like your thoughts, Bob. I have adopted similiar rules. I am in the process of finishing a brig modification and have just started a schooner conversion, and have been pondering the mast damage for them. I have developed a table based on rating for mast damage. I am not sure where Constitution would fit as a 5th rate, but with the huge rig her tonnage required.

Bos'n
04-23-2016, 09:37
I like your thoughts, Bob. I have adopted similiar rules. I am in the process of finishing a brig modification and have just started a schooner conversion, and have been pondering the mast damage for them. I have developed a table based on rating for mast damage. I am not sure where Constitution would fit as a 5th rate, but with the huge rig her tonnage required.

I treat Constitution, President, and United States, three sister ships, as 4th rated ships. Their size and armament support this decision. Are you working on an American fleet too?

Dobbs
04-23-2016, 10:59
Are you working on an American fleet too?

I am not committed to an American fleet, just making some privateers. I have a tidy little brig almost done and the masts for my topsail schooner are coming along nicely today. I have taken to playing SoW not having to plan a turn ahead on maneuver cards to reflect their agility relative to the bigger ships. A fun engagement with this rule is an Amazon vs. a SoW. The sloop can agility allows it to maneuver and slowly pick away at the Amazon, but if (when) the Amazon gets a hit, the sloop starts to fall apart... Two sloops, and it would be a really tough job for the Amazon!

Bos'n
04-23-2016, 13:18
I am not committed to an American fleet, just making some privateers. I have a tidy little brig almost done and the masts for my topsail schooner are coming along nicely today. I have taken to playing SoW not having to plan a turn ahead on maneuver cards to reflect their agility relative to the bigger ships. A fun engagement with this rule is an Amazon vs. a SoW. The sloop can agility allows it to maneuver and slowly pick away at the Amazon, but if (when) the Amazon gets a hit, the sloop starts to fall apart... Two sloops, and it would be a really tough job for the Amazon!


Meshuda is a real ship with a real history. She was captained by Murad Reis, the second of that name, had 28 guns, and was the captured American schooner Betsy. She is represented by the Langton 28 Gun Schooner model and uses the statistics for HMS Cleopatra except has a smaller red zone on her base. The smaller red zone represents the ability to sail into the wind. When I build xebecs and other schooners, I'll do the same. You might want to do the same for your topsail schooner too.

Dobbs
04-23-2016, 13:26
Meshuda is a real ship with a real history. She was captained by Murad Reis, the second of that name, had 28 guns, and was the captured American schooner Betsy. She is represented by the Langton 28 Gun Schooner model and uses the statistics for HMS Cleopatra except has a smaller red zone on her base. The smaller red zone represents the ability to sail into the wind. When I build xebecs and other schooners, I'll do the same. You might want to do the same for your topsail schooner too.

It's my intention to flip-flop the green and orange zones, except for the running one. The running one I will change to another color that will represent orange at the next slower speed. My thought is that, in my experience, fore and aft rigs are faster to windward than any other point of sail, and that is probably what made them so popular for pirates and privateers - the quick getaway in the face of a superior foe...

I, too, plan to use an Amazon base card for my schooner, but keep the red zone the same. My thought is to represent that they are faster upwind than other sloops, but cannot sail as close to the wind.

Dobbs
04-23-2016, 13:57
Sorry, I got it backwards. I plan to use the SoW base card with the colors flip-flopped, and C deck to represent the schooner's movement. That results in a schooner being faster than a ship-rigged sloop upwind, but slower off the wind.

Herkybird
04-23-2016, 14:18
Sorry, I got it backwards. I plan to use the SoW base card with the colors flip-flopped, and C deck to represent the schooner's movement. That results in a schooner being faster than a ship-rigged sloop upwind, but slower off the wind.

Thanks, that makes more sense! sounds like a sound idea!