British Conni equivalent

[FUNK FU]

Hi all,

Recently purchased this great game. Have picked up the starter, Victory and Impèrial.

I also have my eye on the Constitution, but as I like to keep my fleets even, would like to also get a RN equivalent, as the Yanks would more likely side with the French during the era

What would people recommed for a Britsh heavy frigate

[Herkybird]

http://www.aresgames.eu/11269 - is the points system for Sails of Glory. It indicates the 1812 version of Constitution is about as good as the Vanguard, which you got in your starter box (A 74 gun ship!) :takecover:

[David Manley]

Hi all,

Recently purchased this great game. Have picked up the starter, Victory and Impèrial.

I also have my eye on the Constitution, but as I like to keep my fleets even, would like to also get a RN equivalent, as the Yanks would more likely side with the French during the era

What would people recommed for a Britsh heavy frigate

Get a second Constitution and reflag it as sister ship HMS President

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E1BUV3aZpYQ/Vf8rQyt7SiI/AAAAAAAABoI/i2ZR2i6rbyU/s1600/2015-09-20%2B09.33.29.jpg

[Torrence]

Well, as far as I know, the historical problem the Royal Navy had with the super heavy US frigates was, they were too fast to get engaged by ships-of-the-line but to well armed and heavily armoured to be beaten by British frigates.
In SoG we don't have this problem: Here the Constitution is not able to outrun a 3rd Rate like the HMS Vanguard, so that might be the correct choice for you, as Richard said.
Historically, I would use a Razee-Frigate (Jonas has built a lovely Indefatigable: http://www.sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?3112-HMS-Indefatigable&highlight=razee) with custom stats like less firepower and better movement as an equal opponent.

[Nightmoss]

But she was broken up in 1818 in Portsmouth after being reclassed as fourth rate 1817? I don't own BWAS-1793 so I'm unsure as to why she was broken up?

[Dr.Maturin]

It'a a sad fact that the early American Frigates far outclassed any Royal Navy Frigate in existence.

[Cmmdre]

It'a a sad fact that the early American Frigates far outclassed any Royal Navy Frigate in existence.

:takecover: Your sadness is not shared by this sailor. :cannon: I find great happiness in that fact.

[Nightmoss]

Here's a question I had although I don't want to high jack the OP. Could you use the USS Constitution SoG sculpt to represent a razeed USS Independence, or would another SoL sculpt be more appropriate with modifications?

USS Independence was launched as a ship of the line in 1814, originally at 90 guns, but was later cut down to one deck and 54 guns in 1836 (beyond the time frame of SoG). It might be an interesting repaint/kitbash, but again it would fall outside of the scope of the current game.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Independence_(1814)

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/line/sol10.jpg

[Herkybird]

I am sure someone has done an Independence already on this forum. I always see Constitution as a sort of Graf Spee, as it outruns what it can't kill. If so, the solution is the same, use more frigates to engage her! :minis:

[David Manley]

I am sure someone has done an Independence already on this forum. I always see Constitution as a sort of Graf Spee, as it outruns what it can't kill.

Unless it's an RN 40 gunner like Endymion :)

[David Manley]

It'a a sad fact that the early American Frigates far outclassed any Royal Navy Frigate in existence.

Something if a sweeping generalisation. Some US frigates were better than some RN frigates, but by no means all.

[Dr.Maturin]

:takecover: Your sadness is not shared by this sailor. :cannon: I find great happiness in that fact.

And so you should Sir, so you should!
To paraphrase Mr. Churchill I think the war of 1812 was the beginning of the end for the Royal Navy albeit it took another 120 years to really srike home.

[Dr.Maturin]

Something if a sweeping generalisation. Some US frigates were better than some RN frigates, but by no means all.

Sorry but it was a bit sweeping wasn't it?. I was referring to the American Heavy Frigates of the Constitution style.

[David Manley]

lol, yes it was, and even then not entirely accurate as the RN did field frigates that could take on a 44 and win

[David Manley]

And so you should Sir, so you should!
To paraphrase Mr. Churchill I think the war of 1812 was the beginning of the end for the Royal Navy albeit it took another 120 years to really strike home.

Amazingly it was also the temporary end for the USN, as one of the outcomes of the war was a focussing of US aims for expansion internally rather than externally, and the whithering of the Navy in real terms (so much so that for much of the 19th century US mercantile interests around the world were supported and protected by the RN.

[Herkybird]

And so you should Sir, so you should!
To paraphrase Mr. Churchill I think the war of 1812 was the beginning of the end for the Royal Navy albeit it took another 120 years to really srike home.

I think Mr Churchill was incorrect in that assessment. The British navy, it is true, never recovered the glory days of the 18th century and early 19th, but the navy still 'ruled the waves' till the First world War, in my humble opinion! :takecover:

[Dr.Maturin]

I think Mr Churchill was incorrect in that assessment. The British navy, it is true, never recovered the glory days of the 18th century and early 19th, but the navy still 'ruled the waves' till the First world War, in my humble opinion! :takecover:

Firstly Churchill was referring to the finish of the North African campaign in the Second World War and, with respect Sir, if you add 120 years to 1812 you get 1932. Post Washington Treaty.

[Herkybird]

Firstly Churchill was referring to the finish of the North African campaign in the Second World War and, with respect Sir, if you add 120 years to 1812 you get 1932. Post Washington Treaty.

That statement makes no sense to me, sorry! You appear to be answering a statement I did not make!
Churchill's statement does not appear to refer to the end of the North African campaign to me. :question:

[Dr.Maturin]

That statement makes no sense to me, sorry! You appear to be answering a statement I did not make!
Churchill's statement does not appear to refer to the end of the North African campaign to me. :question:

The actual quotation is "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. but it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." It was definitely about the end of the North African Campaign. I did say I was paraphrasing. I'm beginning to think that we might be at cross-purposes here!

[David Manley]

For info.....

http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/EndoBegn.html

[Dr.Maturin]

For info.....

http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/EndoBegn.html

Yeah! That's where I checked that I had the full quote.

[Herkybird]

The actual quotation is "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. but it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." It was definitely about the end of the North African Campaign. I did say I was paraphrasing. I'm beginning to think that we might be at cross-purposes here!

I think so too, in post #12 above, I though the Churchill paraphrase was about a slow decline in the Royal navy after the American war of 1812, which I don't agree with. I think Churchill is fairly authoritative about history in general, but like his history of Marlborough, I disagree with a few of his statements!!!
It was in reply to this quote in Post #12 that I put my reasons for disagreeing with it.

For the life of me I cannot see the 'beginning of the end' speech before Post #19! please correct me if I am missing something :smack:

[Dr.Maturin]

I think so too, in post #12 above, I though the Churchill paraphrase was about a slow decline in the Royal navy after the American war of 1812, which I don't agree with. I think Churchill is fairly authoritative about history in general, but like his history of Marlborough, I disagree with a few of his statements!!!
It was in reply to this quote in Post #12 that I put my reasons for disagreeing with it.

For the life of me I cannot see the 'beginning of the end' speech before Post #19! please correct me if I am missing something :smack:

No Richard, you are quite right about post 19. Post 12 was my opinion and not Mr. Churchills! Sorry for any confusion.

[Herkybird]

No Richard, you are quite right about post 19. Post 12 was my opinion and not Mr. Churchills! Sorry for any confusion.

Phew, I thought I might be going dippy!! :drinks::salute:

[Capn Duff]

Get a second Constitution and reflag it as sister ship HMS President

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E1BUV3aZpYQ/Vf8rQyt7SiI/AAAAAAAABoI/i2ZR2i6rbyU/s1600/2015-09-20%2B09.33.29.jpg

Or even a third and call it HMS Chesapeake, though you may have to shave a mm off as it was smaller than the constitution by 12m I believe, Im sure more authoritive people can correct me here, it was also rated as a 38 I believe

[TexaS]

12 meter is 12 mm in this scale. That's over a cm. I'd suggest using a Hebe (SGN105) instead.

[Bligh]

Or even a third and call it HMS Chesapeake, though you may have to shave a mm off as it was smaller than the constitution by 12m I believe, I'm sure more authoritative people can correct me here, it was also rated as a 38 I believe

It is interesting that you mention the gun rating as 38 Chris.
The Madras Frigates which I modeled my Nottingham on were all classified as 40 gun Frigates, but all the ships specifications state that they carried 44 guns. I wonder if they had included the Carronades when fitting out, because they never include them when classifying a ship as far as I know.
Rob.

[csadn]

Unless it's an RN 40 gunner like Endymion :)

Chasing a ship which just spent several hours on a reef -- and when it gets within range, it gets its teeth kicked in....

[David Manley]

Meanwhile back in reality... :happy: