The French Navy

[tgalante]

Ok, so I've been doing a lot of research leading up to finally getting the game. I've made a few observations.

It appears everyone is all about the British and the French get very little love. So I started digging into the French side of things. It appears through my research the French shot themselves in the foot. Most of their experienced admirals and captains were loyal to the king. During the revolution most fled and those that didn't were guillotined. So there was a leadership vacuum. I could be wrong, but looking at success rates of major fleet engagments says otherwise.

I also spent some time trying to find a successful French frigate captain in the vein of Cochrane. I didn't turn up much. Maybe someone here can point me in a better direction. Also a running theme I saw in the French ship list captured, captured, captured. There were few frigates that were successful long term.

I do love the amount of small scale options available for scenarios. There are tons of single ship actions to read about between frigates which I think will be my niche. While I love the good 74's and larger they don't appear to have gotten a lot of use, other than major actions.

Anyway, if anyone has any interesting reading a nudge in the right direction would be appreciated.

[Rafer J Larwood]

I have also done some research into the French navy - they lost ! (all together now... Rule Brittania etc.)
Only joking...

[Nightmoss]

Sails of Glory is designed so that both the French and the English are pretty much on equal footing. That's not how history unfolded, but it would be a gods awfully boring game if the Brits won all the time!! House rules and such can adjust the game to be more historically accurate, but again, good luck trying to find French players. We've discussed this a bit in the past; awards or some recognition for graded losses, switching sides, etc.

I'll let others comment more on the actual history as I've not done much reading on the French. However, I have been slowing reading this book for another point of view on Trafalgar:

http://www.amazon.com/Trafalgar-Spanish-Navy-Experience-Power/dp/0870216953/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1436196858&sr=8-1&keywords=trafalgar+and+the+spanish+navy&pebp=1436196860156&perid=05V943NY6FQD2ZM5SRQW

I just spotted this book as well, but I cannot comment on it's quality:

http://www.amazon.com/Enemy-Trafalgar-Perspective-Spanish-Sailors/dp/0857068679/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1436196858&sr=8-2&keywords=trafalgar+and+the+spanish+navy

[7eat51]

You might find this beneficial. Amazon has used copies starting at $4.46: http://www.amazon.com/British-Frigate-French-1793-1814-Duel/dp/1780961324/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=1-1&qid=1436197128

15475

[7eat51]

Jim, here are reviews on both books:

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?3180-Trafalgar-and-the-Spanish-Navy&highlight=trafalgar

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?849-The-Enemy-at-Trafalgar&highlight=trafalgar

[Nightmoss]

Jim, here are reviews on both books:

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?3180-Trafalgar-and-the-Spanish-Navy&highlight=trafalgar

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?849-The-Enemy-at-Trafalgar&highlight=trafalgar

Thanks, Eric. The second title does sound interesting. As I'm now reading several books at the same time I'll have to see when I can squeeze another title into the batch. Still slowly getting through, Seize the Fire by Nicolson.

[Nightmoss]

You might find this beneficial. Amazon has used copies starting at $4.46: http://www.amazon.com/British-Frigate-French-1793-1814-Duel/dp/1780961324/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=1-1&qid=1436197128

Wouldn't this be more accurate if it said French frigate vs. French frigate (manned by British)? :wink: I think the French built better ships, but the British kept stealing them!! :takecover: :question: :surrender:

[7eat51]

I'll let Sven respond, Jim. :wink:

I do find it interesting that in most of my reading lately, the authors highlight the French as better ship designers. Why were they so good at it? The only thing I can think of is that France is near Italy, the home of superlative design, style, panache, élan, and, coincidentally, my family.

[Bligh]

This guy may be of interest.





Pierre André de Suffren


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Suffren.jpg/220px-Suffren.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Suffren.jpg) Bust of Suffren by Houdon



Nickname(s)
Jupiter


Born
(1729-07-17)17 July 1729
Château de Saint-Cannat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Cannat)


Died
8 December 1788(1788-12-08) (aged 59)
Paris (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris)


Buried at
Ashes defiled in 1793 by the Revolutionaries[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Andr%C3%A9_de_Suffren#cite_note-1)


Allegiance
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Flag_of_the_Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Malta.svg/23px-Flag_of_the_Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Malta.svg.png Sovereign Military Order of Malta (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Malta)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Royal_Standard_of_the_King_of_France.svg/23px-Royal_Standard_of_the_King_of_France.svg.png Kingdom of France (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_France)


Service/branch
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Naval_Ensign_of_the_Kingdom_of_France.svg/22px-Naval_Ensign_of_the_Kingdom_of_France.svg.png French Navy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Navy)


Years of service
1743 - 1784


Rank
Vice-admiral (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice-admiral) in the French Navy

General of the Galley of Malta


Unit
Indian Ocean squadron


Battles/wars
War of the Austrian Succession (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Austrian_Succession):


Battle of Toulon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Toulon_(1744))
Battle of Cape Finisterre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Cape_Finisterre_(1747))

Seven Years' War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Years%27_War):


Battle of Minorca (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Minorca_(1756))
Battle of Lagos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lagos)

American Revolutionary War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War):


Battle of Porto Praya (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Porto_Praya)
Battle of Grenada (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grenada)
Battle of Sadras (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sadras)
Battle of Providien (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Providien)
Battle of Negapatam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Negapatam_(1782))
Battle of Trincomalee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Trincomalee)
Battle of Cuddalore (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cuddalore_(1783))
Siege of Cuddalore (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Cuddalore)




Awards
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Ordre_du_Saint-Esprit_Chevalier_ribbon.svg/35px-Ordre_du_Saint-Esprit_Chevalier_ribbon.svg.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ordre_du_Saint-Esprit_Chevalier_ribbon.svg) Order of the Holy Spirit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Holy_Spirit)

Order of Saint-John of Jérusalem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Hospitaller)


Admiral (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral) comte Pierre André de Suffren de Saint Tropez, bailli de Suffren (17 July 1729 – 8 December 1788)

Rob.

[Naharaht]

The French must think highly of Admiral comte Pierre André de Suffren because they have named several classes of warship after him over the years, including their newest nuclear attack submarines.

[Comte de Brueys]

...

I also spent some time trying to find a successful French frigate captain in the vein of Cochrane. I didn't turn up much. Maybe someone here can point me in a better direction. Also a running theme I saw in the French ship list captured, captured, captured. There were few frigates that were successful long term...

What about this one?

Louis-Jean-Nicolas Lejoille

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis-Jean-Nicolas_Lejoille

[Bligh]

Here are a few names you may care to sift through Thomas.
Rob.



Zacharie Allemand (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacharie_Allemand)


B

Jean-Baptiste Barré (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Baptiste_Barr%C3%A9)
Jean-Baptiste-Augustin Rousseau (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Baptiste-Augustin_Rousseau)
Jean-Léon Émeric (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-L%C3%A9on_%C3%89meric)
Charles Baudin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Baudin)
François-André Baudin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois-Andr%C3%A9_Baudin)
Louis Alexis Baudoin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Alexis_Baudoin)
Jacques Bedout (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Bedout)
Jacques Bergeret (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Bergeret)
Pierre François Étienne Bouvet de Maisonneuve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Fran%C3%A7ois_%C3%89tienne_Bouvet_de_Maisonneuve)
François Joseph Bouvet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_Joseph_Bouvet)
Étienne Eustache Bruix (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89tienne_Eustache_Bruix)
Édouard Thomas Burgues de Missiessy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89douard_Thomas_Burgues_de_Missiessy)


C

Jean-Anne Christy de la Pallière (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Anne_Christy_de_la_Palli%C3%A8re)
Yves Cornic Dumoulin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yves_Cornic_Dumoulin)
Julien Cosmao (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julien_Cosmao)


D

Denis Decrès (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Decr%C3%A8s)
Louis Gabriel Deniéport (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Gabriel_Deni%C3%A9port)
Jean Dornal de Guy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Dornal_de_Guy)
Bernard Dubourdieu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Dubourdieu)
Alexandre Louis Ducrest de Villeneuve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandre_Louis_Ducrest_de_Villeneuve)
Pierre Dumanoir le Pelley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Dumanoir_le_Pelley)
Guy-Victor Duperré (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy-Victor_Duperr%C3%A9)


E

Maxime Julien Émeriau de Beauverger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxime_Julien_%C3%89meriau_de_Beauverger)


F

Jean-Baptiste-Henri Féretier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Baptiste-Henri_F%C3%A9retier)
Jean-Gilles Filhol de Camas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Gilles_Filhol_de_Camas)
Carel Hendrik Ver Huell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carel_Hendrik_Ver_Huell)


G

Honoré Joseph Antoine Ganteaume (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor%C3%A9_Joseph_Antoine_Ganteaume)
Pierre-Paulin Gourrège (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Paulin_Gourr%C3%A8ge)


H

Emmanuel Halgan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Halgan)
Jacques Félix Emmanuel Hamelin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_F%C3%A9lix_Emmanuel_Hamelin)
Anne Chrétien Louis de Hell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Chr%C3%A9tien_Louis_de_Hell)
Jean Joseph Hubert (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Joseph_Hubert)


I

Louis-Antoine-Cyprien Infernet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis-Antoine-Cyprien_Infernet)


J

Louis Léon Jacob (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_L%C3%A9on_Jacob)
Louis Thomas Villaret de Joyeuse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Thomas_Villaret_de_Joyeuse)
Pierre Roch Jurien de La Gravière (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Roch_Jurien_de_La_Gravi%C3%A8re)


K

Guy-Pierre de Kersaint (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy-Pierre_de_Kersaint)


L

Christophe-Paulin de La Poix de Fréminville (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christophe-Paulin_de_La_Poix_de_Fr%C3%A9minville)
Louis-Armand de La Poype de Vertrieu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis-Armand_de_La_Poype_de_Vertrieu)
Jean-Baptiste Raymond de Lacrosse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Baptiste_Raymond_de_Lacrosse)
Pierre-Nicolas Lahalle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Nicolas_Lahalle)
Louis-Charles-Auguste Delamarre de Lamellerie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis-Charles-Auguste_Delamarre_de_Lamellerie)
Jean-François Landolphe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Fran%C3%A7ois_Landolphe)
Louis-René Levassor de Latouche Tréville (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis-Ren%C3%A9_Levassor_de_Latouche_Tr%C3%A9ville)
Pierre-Marie Le Bozec (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Marie_Le_Bozec)
Amand Leduc (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amand_Leduc)
Corentin Urbain Leissègues (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corentin_Urbain_Leiss%C3%A8gues)
Louis-Jean-Nicolas Lejoille (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis-Jean-Nicolas_Lejoille)
René Lemarant de Kerdaniel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Lemarant_de_Kerdaniel)
Jean-François Lemaresquier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Fran%C3%A7ois_Lemaresquier)
Jean-Marthe-Adrien l'Hermite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Marthe-Adrien_l%27Hermite)
Pierre Lhermite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Lhermite)
Charles-Alexandre Léon Durand Linois (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles-Alexandre_L%C3%A9on_Durand_Linois)
Louis-François Ollivier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis-Fran%C3%A7ois_Ollivier)
Jean Jacques Étienne Lucas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Jacques_%C3%89tienne_Lucas)


M

Charles René Magon de Médine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ren%C3%A9_Magon_de_M%C3%A9dine)
Jean-Michel Mahé (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Michel_Mah%C3%A9)
Esprit-Tranquille Maistral (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esprit-Tranquille_Maistral)
Charles de Bernard de Marigny (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Bernard_de_Marigny)
Pierre Martin (French Navy officer) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Martin_%28French_Navy_officer%29)
Pierre-Augustin Moncousu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Augustin_Moncousu)
François-Gilles Montfort (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois-Gilles_Montfort)
Justin Bonaventure Morard de Galles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Bonaventure_Morard_de_Galles)
Nicolas Morice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Morice)
Léonard-Bernard Motard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9onard-Bernard_Motard)
Vincent Moulac (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Moulac)


N

Joseph-Marie Nielly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph-Marie_Nielly)


P

Jean-Baptiste Perrée (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Baptiste_Perr%C3%A9e)
Jacques Pinsum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Pinsum)
François Pitot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_Pitot)
Georges René Le Peley de Pléville (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Ren%C3%A9_Le_Peley_de_Pl%C3%A9ville)
Jean-Baptiste-Joseph-René Poulain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Baptiste-Joseph-Ren%C3%A9_Poulain)


Q

Pierre Maurice Julien de Quérangal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Maurice_Julien_de_Qu%C3%A9rangal)


R

Cyprien Renaudin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprien_Renaudin)
Jean François Renaudin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Fran%C3%A7ois_Renaudin)
Pierre-Nicolas Rolland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Nicolas_Rolland)
Dominique Roquebert (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominique_Roquebert)
François Étienne de Rosily-Mesros (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_%C3%89tienne_de_Rosily-Mesros)
Albin Roussin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albin_Roussin)


S

Daniel Savary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Savary)
Pierre César Charles de Sercey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_C%C3%A9sar_Charles_de_Sercey)


T

Antoine-Jean-Marie Thévenard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine-Jean-Marie_Th%C3%A9venard)
Bernard Thomas Tréhouart de Beaulieu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Thomas_Tr%C3%A9houart_de_Beaulieu)
Joseph de Cambis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_de_Cambis)
Pierre Julien Tréhouart (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Julien_Tr%C3%A9houart)
Amable Troude (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amable_Troude)
Louis Lhéritier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Lh%C3%A9ritier)
Laurent Jean François Truguet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurent_Jean_Fran%C3%A7ois_Truguet)


V

Jean Gaspard de Vence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Gaspard_de_Vence)
Pierre-Charles Villeneuve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Charles_Villeneuve)


W

Jean-Baptiste Philibert Willaumez (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Baptiste_Philibert_Willaumez)
Jan Willem de Winter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Willem_de_Winter)

[tgalante]

Thanks, everyone! I guess I have some reading to do.

[Bligh]

Thanks, everyone! I guess I have some reading to do.

I meant to add Thomas, that if you dwell on the names and click it will take you to a biography.
Rob.