View Full Version : Difference in factions
Hired Gun
06-30-2015, 21:32
What,if any,are the difference in the factions? Do Brits do something better than France or U.S. Does France have an advantage is a certain area? Or is it just for Historical purposes? As a Pirate,I plan on using ships from all nations.:Arrrr:
Berthier
07-01-2015, 04:17
I think it was a serious question about any intrinsic game design choices that accentuate national differences. Eg French build better ships, Brits shoot better, US does a bit of both, but how well is this modelled in the game?
That was the way I took it also Daniel, and as a relative novice in SoG I am also interested in the opinions of the more experienced players.
Rob.
There is no answer to your question. Each ship produced by each country were things in themselves, manufactured under different circumstances, different availability of woods, different advances in technology and, of course, different builders with different ideas about how to build a ship. Some ship companies produced good ships, others not so good. An order for six Elizabeth class ships of the line from six different builders all using exactly the same plans would get you six ships that sailed and handled completely different from each other. No country was above capturing and using foreign prizes in their navies if the ships turned out to be "good ones". Whether the French ships were "worse" than the British ships really doesn't make much sense. British crews were better trained than anybody else's crews. But the ships were a grab bag of different technologies and construction techniques. You will notice that during the 200 year span of the age of sail, ships simply got bigger. Starting out, frigates were teeny tiny things but by 1800, they almost doubled in size. The closest thing to a general rule in building wooden ships is "bigger is better". They sail better, they are more weatherly, and they are more powerful. The invention of cross bracing the ribs of a wooden ship allowed the ships to become bigger. But all nations used that innovation. Some even retrofitted older ships with cross braces to prevent them from hogging. But, by and large, no country had a monopoly, even for a short while, on better constructed ships. Not even mighty Britain, who ruled the seven seas for a hundred years. You could argue that long over whether french cannon were superior to british cannon, but you'll just wind up agreeing to disagree. Pirates used whatever ship they could beg, borrow, or steal. They did not have the luxury of picking and choosing the ship they were using.
As to actual game design decisions reflected in the ships stats, we're all a bit in the dark. This is where things like the Captain and Crew cards come in handy; they enable one to "customize" the ability of a given ship. If you think a given nation should have a bonus or deficiency not represented, you have the freedom to house rule. If you have suggestions for anything in particular, post them and folks will be happy to provide feedback.
Edit: Ken responded as I was writing. Another thing to add is that in addition to prizes, nations used ships built by other nations that were gifts/loans, repayment, or secured through diplomacy.
We also have the conundrum over Black Powder.
Who's was best? Who's had been in storage longest? Who's at sea longest? Who had captured who's and from whom? etc.
Best not go into these muddy waters, lest it seep into your barrels.:happy:
Rob.
Capn Duff
07-01-2015, 11:28
In basic terms, there are no National Characteristics in the game or ships as such.
However this can be tailored by the use of some optional rules such as gunners and crew lack training as well as the use of the crew cards as has been already mentioned.
I suppose some rules of this type may be forthcoming in the future or house rules, but from the rule book a French 74 is the same as. British 74 and as a Spanish 74.
There may be something built into the number ofcrew spaces and the value of the broadsides, others with a more technical insight may help here.
Oh welcome by the way.
David Manley
07-01-2015, 12:01
Factions! :Arrrr:
GrimmJack
07-01-2015, 14:31
In basic terms, there are no National Characteristics in the game or ships as such.
However this can be tailored by the use of some optional rules such as gunners and crew lack training as well as the use of the crew cards as has been already mentioned.
I suppose some rules of this type may be forthcoming in the future or house rules, but from the rule book a French 74 is the same as. British 74 and as a Spanish 74.
There may be something built into the number ofcrew spaces and the value of the broadsides, others with a more technical insight may help here.
Oh welcome by the way.
many thanks...Gun asked but I was curious as well
Hired Gun
07-01-2015, 18:34
OK back on track...the idea of house rules for pirates sounds good,maybe test to see if the crew is sober enough to shoot strait :cannon:? I was thinking having a great Captain,and have to either bribe of threaten the crew for bonuses :rum:? "Extra Rum for every hit!" Run the risk of mutiny....so many ideas
OK back on track...the idea of house rules for pirates sounds good,maybe test to see if the crew is sober enough to shoot strait :cannon:? I was thinking having a great Captain,and have to either bribe of threaten the crew for bonuses :rum:? "Extra Rum for every hit!" Run the risk of mutiny....so many ideas
Are you contemplating a campaign in which the outcomes of a given session impact subsequent sessions?
One rule for pirates would be intimidation on the opposing force. You can set up some type of die roll with modifiers based on various factors; if the opposing force is intimidated, they have a penalty when shooting guns or musketry.
I always look at the emoticons first. it can tell a lot about the actual meaning of the post.
However, we are getting a bit near to politics and I feel it would be better to keep such exchanges to PMs just in case anyone got the wrong end of the stick, and blew off.
Rob.
You're right, Rob. But I hate to think that I have to walk on eggshells in the forum just to keep from offending thin skinned conservatives. I would really like to do the Battle of Campeche in Sails of Glory. It was the only battle where wooden ships got the better of ironclads. That's why we need brig models, Ares. Are you Listening? We want brigs! Brigs and Schooners!
My Friend, it's statements like "thin skinned conservatives" that elicit responses, especially when said folks know many "thin skinned liberals". I have had the pleasure of conversing with you recently via PMs. You were extremely gracious; your informative PMs demonstrated that clearly, and I never once felt belittled for my lack of sailing knowledge. So though you and I are on opposite sides of the spectrum (assuming I am assuming correctly), as I am of the Austrian economics school and desirous of minimal government intervention into most any area of life, with heroes such as Hayek, von Mises, etc., you are my shipmate, and I am glad of it.
What all of us need to remember is that the Anchorage is a place for discussing Sails of Glory and the Age-of-Sail, primarily, with the added benefit of being a part of a diverse community that can discuss other topics. This is why politics and religion are reserved for private correspondence when moving beyond discussions of an historical nature that directly bear upon AoS. Given that folks have different backgrounds and experiences with religion and politics, we need to exercise a measure of considerate restraint, and that from members on both sides of the aisle.
Popsical
07-02-2015, 10:09
WOW!!!! :shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:
This was a first for me on this forum! I go awol for a few days and BOOM! :cannonboom:
Thomas, you made me laugh LOTS :clap:
My Friend, it's statements like "thin skinned conservatives" that elicit responses, especially when said folks know many "thin skinned liberals". I have had the pleasure of conversing with you recently via PMs. You were extremely gracious; your informative PMs demonstrated that clearly, and I never once felt belittled for my lack of sailing knowledge. So though you and I are on opposite sides of the spectrum (assuming I am assuming correctly), as I am of the Austrian economics school and desirous of minimal government intervention into most any area of life, with heroes such as Hayek, von Mises, etc., you are my shipmate, and I am glad of it.
What all of us need to remember is that the Anchorage is a place for discussing Sails of Glory and the Age-of-Sail, primarily, with the added benefit of being a part of a diverse community that can discuss other topics. This is why politics and religion are reserved for private correspondence when moving beyond discussions of an historical nature that directly bear upon AoS. Given that folks have different backgrounds and experiences with religion and politics, we need to exercise a measure of considerate restraint, and that from members on both sides of the aisle.
The only time it's an issue is when the most conservative members of the forum complain. There's definitely a double standard going on here. I don't mind it when gunner et al snipe at liberals. It's the ones who dish it out but can't take it I have a problem with. But hey, consider my hand officially slapped. If you wander among the threads here, you will see a ratio of about 3 to 1 between political comments from conservatives than comments by liberals.
No singling you out intended, Ken. I typically refrain from making comments unless I see things move toward belittling comments toward members. I feared this thread was moving in that direction, and not from one side only. If in the future you ever think a conversation is unduly or unfairly censored or not censored enough, I encourage you to contact me. Shipmates are shipmates despite our political, religious, national, etc., differences.
You, are an officer and a gentleman while I am just a swabbie with only about 9 months before the mast (tugs forelock). Beggin yer pardon, admiral sir.
If that is the case, I suggest a mutiny. You're the one who will get us to port. :wink:
Ill take me chances with your lordship if you please, sir. We all know the fate awaiting mutineers.
Indeed we do Ken.
Bligh.
But, in this case no harm was done, and no dusky maidens from the Pitcairn Islands hove to on the horizon either.:wink: I never intended to start a witch hunt when I made my remark, nor did I like Eric said intend to single out anyone by pointing the finger. Just wanted to get the thread back on track really, without being heavy handed.:salute:
Rob.
Comte de Brueys
07-02-2015, 13:50
What,if any,are the difference in the factions? Do Brits do something better than France or U.S. Does France have an advantage is a certain area? Or is it just for Historical purposes? As a Pirate,I plan on using ships from all nations.:Arrrr:
The French Temeraire class is the best 3rd rate on the table.
I prefer the more stable French frigates.
The British Amazon class has a good opening center fire arc salvo.
As a boy I always liked to play with Confederates more, then with Yankees.
Maybe their uniforms looks more similar to the Wehrmacht's grey and I have no problems to play with underdogs. :wink:
Diamondback
07-02-2015, 13:59
Well, we can't legitimately call pirates a "nation"... LOL
In the old Avalon Hill games, I preferred to play the Nazis. They had better weapons, better uniforms, and fewer counters to keep track of than the allies. But not better marching songs. I'll take Col Bogey over Die Wacht am Rhein every time.
With WWII wargames, in the Western Front, I prefer the Americans or British. In the Eastern Front, I prefer the Germans. In the Med., I prefer the British. In Africa, I am split. I am not familiar with the PTO. I just ordered Empire of the Sun, and recently won We Must Tell the Emperor, so we'll see.
In WGF, I prefer playing the Germans. It is too soon to say about WGS.
In SoG, I prefer the British when fighting the French, and will prefer the Americans when fighting the British.
In Pathfinder, I prefer playing a rogue, monk, or urban ranger.
At home, I prefer to play the dutiful and loving husband who so pleases his wife that she looks the other way when I make game purchases. Unfortunately, I recruited her to the Anchorage so she'll probably see this and the gig will be up.
Nightmoss
07-02-2015, 16:10
With WWII wargames, in the Western Front, I prefer the Americans or British. In the Eastern Front, I prefer the Germans. In the Med., I prefer the British. In Africa, I am split. I am not familiar with the PTO. I just ordered Empire of the Sun, and recently won We Must Tell the Emperor, so we'll see.
In WGF, I prefer playing the Germans. It is too soon to say about WGS.
In SoG, I prefer the British when fighting the French, and will prefer the Americans when fighting the British.
In Pathfinder, I prefer playing a rogue, monk, or urban ranger.
At home, I prefer to play the dutiful and loving husband who so pleases his wife that she looks the other way when I make game purchases. Unfortunately, I recruited her to the Anchorage so she'll probably see this and the gig will be up.
I wish there was an emote for "snort". I'd be using it now. lol.
I think the gig was up a while back. :wink:
I think you're right, Jim.
She asked me earlier today why I have all my Osprey books spread out over the floor. It was because I have an amazon gift certificate itching to be spent and I was looking at some Osprey titles. I wonder what she thinks, at times, but I quickly move on.
Well, we can't legitimately call pirates a "nation"... LOL
Who was it said "I have as much right to make war as any crowned head"? >;)
I wish there was an emote for "snort". I'd be using it now. lol.
I think the gig was up a while back. :wink:
You meant "the jig is up".
You meant "the jig is up".
I had to look this up. Here's what I found:
When someone says the "gig" is up, they mean that an engagement has played its course. When someone says the "jig" is up, it indicates that a scoundrel has been found out, and the forces of law and order are on their way.
Hmmm. Scoundrel. Hmmm.
Nightmoss
07-02-2015, 17:18
Ah, "jig" it is.
"Scoundrel?" Sure, why not. It puts you in good company with Han Solo. :happy:
Who was it said "I have as much right to make war as any crowned head"? >;)
Peter Sellars?
Wow, I even spelled it wrong.
Who said, "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"?
No. Wait. That was Peter Sellers, also.
George C. Scott talked about the big board.
I've got to pull that out for a viewing.
Nightmoss
07-02-2015, 22:12
No. Wait. That was Peter Sellers, also.
George C. Scott talked about the big board.
I've got to pull that out for a viewing.
Still one of my classic favorites. Who said, "You'll have to answer to the Coca-Cola company"?
Keenan Wynn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUAK7t3Lf8s
No Fighting in the War Room
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI5B7jLWZUc
And my favorite...also a young James Earl Jones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snTaSJk0n_Y
We'll meet again. :drinks:
Nightmoss
07-02-2015, 23:08
Just watched the Making of Dr. Strangelove. Some fascinating tidbits I wasn't aware of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfJTld0baG4
We'll meet again. :drinks:
Vera Lynn.:clap:
Rob.
Berthier
07-03-2015, 04:01
Vera Lynn.:clap:
Rob.
Stop it guys, I'm tearing up here now :cry:
Dont know where, dont know when...
Union Jack
07-03-2015, 05:39
Basically put and mainly for the Napoleonic era:
Britain: Slower ships but better gunnery due to time spent at sea and on blockade duty.
France; Faster ships but poor gunners due to time spent in port.
America: Powerful well built 40 guns or less. Didn't really develop larger sol until end of Napoleonic period.
Spain: Big powerful many gunned ships just not good enough crews or leaders and fought on both sides.
Remember this is very basic and not detailed into the why's and wherefores.
Tactics:
French: maintain downwind of enemy so they could sail away.
British: maintain the wind gauge so they could close with the enemy but smoke from guns could be a problem from excessive firing.
Carronade:
Close in British should gain an advantage when firing but at long range a disadvantage due to range of Carronade.
Weather or full sail.
Big 3 deckers should have firing reduced when firing into the turn and at full sail due to lower gun ports being under water. (Might have that the wrong way, into or out of, round brain is not firing on all cylinders at present).
Oh... All these politics! Wigs and Torys at each others throats! :surrender: Let's leave that to the landlubbers and fight a good fight at sea instead!
I'd agree with Sven, the Téméraires are very good, especially in the hands of the British.
Those descriptions by Neil were true in real life, but in Sails of Glory the British are often faster.
Andy Blozinski
07-03-2015, 10:38
Factions! :Arrrr:
That term doesn't drive me as nuts as "clan" does, but it is annoying.
I can remember playing WW II first person shooters and people asking about each other's clan. The only thing that would reactionarily (it's fun to make up words!) go through my head was that none of us are wearing fargin' kilts!
So...in the age of sail.."nation" would be a much more appropriate term than "faction".
Andy Blozinski
07-03-2015, 10:43
I used some captain & crew cards for my pirates in the fog bank game. The one time quick broadside reload and they get to re-draw one blank in boarding. This makes them a little more Hollywood pirate. Plus I gave them a burden 4 frigate, which is rating them higher than reality as well.
Stop it guys, I'm tearing up here now :cry:
Dont know where, dont know when...
One sunny day,:drinks:
This discussion raises an interesting question, and one I, personally, am wrestling with - the ethics of collecting and displaying military memorabilia.
Popsical
07-03-2015, 15:03
Every army in every war ever fought has committed atrocities, so by that rationale we should not collect war memorabilia at all.
From my point of view you can buy it for the historical interest (i do this), aesthetic interest (guilty again) or more rarely because you want to be part of the items connections (not guilty sir).
I own a confederate kepi and i think it looks quite dashing. I own my granddads and great granddads medals from WW2 and WW1 respectively because i am proud of their service.
People should let others do what makes them happy as long as it hurts no one else. So what if you own a confederate flag? Its hardly a life threatening act of aggression.
fredmiracle
07-03-2015, 15:05
I do think most gamers, reenactors and military buffs are excited not about the moral issues or claims in any given situation, but about the drama, stories, strategy and weapons, and should get some slack. But I'm also respectful of the feelings of those whose ancestors suffered mass oppression. Compared to that, the tea tax our founding fathers got so worked up about (and we still do) is pretty trivial...
Nightmoss
07-03-2015, 16:17
Hey, if you get your "Butt your head against a brick wall icon" I want the "Gin and Tonic" icon restored!!! That disappeared some months back and I'm still upset. :wink:
To arms, they took our gin and tonic away.:swordright::drinks:
Nightmoss
07-03-2015, 16:26
To arms, they took our gin and tonic away.:swordright::drinks:
Seriously!! I know for a fact that the crew over on the Aerodrome still have their G&T. Just ask Rob!!
Popsical
07-03-2015, 16:29
G&T, known as the "crying mothers drink" over here. Can anyone tell me why? (honest question)
My fellow Shipmates,
While I like lively debates, and while I respect the right of folks to hold opinions regardless of my agreement, I fear discussions here can easily move in an unhealthy direction for our site. We're discussing issues that can be hard to separate from strong feelings, and before those feelings take the better of any of us, I am going to close this thread.
I think it is worthwhile to hear the opinions of others with whom we disagree. I have learned quite a bit over the years from doing so, and I have yet to regret giving another a genuine listen. I encourage anyone who wants to continue discussions started here to do so by PM.
Thank you,
Eric
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