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Coog
01-25-2012, 15:07
It seems that most members of this site own or have played quite a few Napoleonic naval miniatures games. What ship models do you own and use in your games?

Here is a list of mine, all GHQ 1/1200 scale:

France

74 Gun Ship-of-the-line (L'Achille)
74 Gun Ship-of-the-line (Le Superbe)
40 Gun Frigate (La Vengeance) x 2
20 Gun Corvette (La Fauvette) x 3

Britain

74 Gun Ship-of-the-line (HMS Bellona)
64 Gun Ship-of-the-line (HMS Agamemnon)
50 Gun Ship (HMS Centurion)
40 Gun Frigate (La Vengeance) - used as captured French or HMS Acasta
38 Gun Frigate (HMS Shannon) x 2
36 Gun Frigate (HMS Hamadryad)
32 Gun Frigate (HMS Cleopatra)
20 Gun Sloop-of-War x 3
18 Gun Brig x 2
14 Gun Cutter
8 Gun Schooner
44 Gun East Indiaman
West Indies Merchantman x 3

United States

44 Gun Frigate (USS Constitution) x 2
38 Gun Frigate (USS Constellation)
38 Gun Frigate (USS Macedonian) - conversion
32 Gun Frigate (USS Essex) - conversion
28 Gun Corvette (USS Adams) - conversion
18 Gun Sloop-of-War (USS Wasp) - conversion
16 Gun Brig (USS Argus) - British 18
14 Gun Brig (USS Enterprise) - conversion
Baltimore Privateer

Spanish

74 Gun Ship-of-the-line (El Montanes)
34 Gun Frigate (La Diana) x 2
22 Gun Xebec x 2

The Royal Hajj
01-25-2012, 15:57
I've picked up a 74 from GHQ, Langton, and NAvwar just to compare them and see which I like best... if I decide to go the route of adding non-Ares ships.

frpat
01-25-2012, 17:47
Mine all suffered a nasty accident a little over 20 years back - so all went. At the time of the announcement of SOG I had just finished work on a Langton Spanish 74, with an opponenet in a Langton Brit 74. Only oher ship i have now is an unfinished Langton Spanish frigate - but hoping to pick up more.

csadn
01-25-2012, 20:49
None whatsoever -- the closest I come is a model of a Pacific Islander sailboat with outriggers.

David Manley
01-25-2012, 22:22
Somewhere in the region of eighty 1/1200 (mostly langton, some Skytrex, Navwar and the odd GHQ), with another 30 "on the stocks" (but have been for some time - most of these are my Dutch)

Thirty 1/450 (mostly Peter Pig - but with some larger frigate models being worked on for "oversize" SGN)

Somewhere in the region of 100 1/2400 (Hallmark), including a very nice Danish fleet for those times when you feel the urge to visit Copenhagen :)

Berthier
01-26-2012, 00:53
About 8 old worn out 1/1200 metal models, can't even remember where I got them, probably GHQ. Must have been around 1994-96 I would guess. They are earmarked for wrecking...

Comte de Brueys
01-26-2012, 03:51
No ships at the moment. :(

I'am waiting for SoG to build fleets.

Mark Barker
01-26-2012, 14:26
None whatsoever -- the closest I come is a model of a Pacific Islander sailboat with outriggers.

Don't outriggers rather get in the way of the guns ?

Not after the first broadside, I suppose ...

Mark

Mark Barker
01-26-2012, 14:37
1/2400 (Hallmark), including a very nice Danish fleet for those times when you feel the urge to visit Copenhagen :)

Why muck about with 1/2400 ?

http://sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=893&d=1327613402

Copenhagen demonstration (as fronted by my wife Alison) at the International Festival of the Sea in 2000.

Ships, named fortifications and specific dockyard buildings from Rod Langton's range, harbour mouth scratchbuilt from contemporary plans and an on-site recce courtesy of Easyjet !

Best regards,

Mark Barker
The Inshore Squadron

csadn
01-26-2012, 16:18
Don't outriggers rather get in the way of the guns ?
Not after the first broadside, I suppose ...

No guns.

Old Salt
01-26-2012, 16:37
All mine are GHQ, Victory , Agamemnon, Shannon , Boyne, A 112 gun ship of the line, Centurion, and a 36 gun frigate

Mark Barker
01-27-2012, 13:57
No guns.

Not going to last long in this game then ...

csadn
01-27-2012, 14:55
Not going to last long in this game then ...

Wouldn't be the first time an American started with nothing, and built a fleet which beat the dog out of everyone else.... ;)

Bligh
02-07-2012, 06:48
Here are my current Squadrons.
Bligh.

907

906

909

905

Berthier
02-08-2012, 01:23
Oh the Pirates ships, got bucket loads of them! Umm, not that that's the correct collective noun, perhaps squadrons or fleets would be more appropriate.

Been hanging on to them for years waiting for inspiration on what to do with them all so perhaps they will finally have a use. Maneuver card for the Chinese junks should be interesting.

Bligh
02-08-2012, 02:18
Oh the Pirates ships, got bucket loads of them! Umm, not that that's the correct collective noun, perhaps squadrons or fleets would be more appropriate.

Been hanging on to them for years waiting for inspiration on what to do with them all so perhaps they will finally have a use. Maneuver card for the Chinese junks should be interesting.

Why was it that we always seemed to get so many Pirate ships. I was trying to build up my British and American Squadrons, and all I kept getting was Pirates. That is why I stopped in the end.
Rob.

David Manley
02-08-2012, 09:19
I was trying to build up my British and American Squadrons, and all I kept getting was Pirates.

Not much difference between Yankees and Pirates :)

(ducks!)

csadn
02-08-2012, 15:04
Not much difference between Yankees and Pirates :)
(ducks!)

Big difference -- one's in New York City, the other's in Pittsburgh.

Blackrose
02-10-2012, 09:01
Not much difference between Yankees and Pirates :)

(ducks!)

There's a lot to be said (for this time period) for Navies and pirates to be the same thing; kind of like Gameskeepers and poachers ;)

Back to the thread question: I have no ships, save a couple of unscaled ones built during my youth, but hope to aquire some by the end of the year. I wouldn't mind trying some Elizebethian naval too.
Karl

David Manley
02-10-2012, 11:18
Valiant (IIRC) made some lovely 1/1200 Elizabethan ships. I picked up a boxful when our FLGS shut down a few years back but I've not yet had a chance to do anything with them. I've also got a box of Airfix models of the Revenge, Golden Hind etc. for battles on larger tables. The first armada period game I played used a horder of these on a village hall floor and the visual effect was stunning!

csadn
02-10-2012, 15:05
There's a lot to be said (for this time period) for Navies and pirates to be the same thing; kind of like Gameskeepers and poachers

Very true -- bear in mind: A "pirate" was self-employed; if he got paperwork declaring him to be working for a particular side, he became a "privateer". This led to the obligatory arguments over forged documents and "what constitutes a 'legitimate' side" (see, in a later period, the problems Abraham Lincoln had with the Confederacy's naval aspect; much the same problem existed for the Colonies during the AmRev -- and despite all the lawfare involved, the question invariably devolved to "force majeure": If one could enforce one's arguments at gunpoint, and/or get others to do it for you, then it didn't much matter what the other side said).

RedLeif
02-11-2013, 13:47
Hi,
To date I've only completed 3 GHQ models but I've got 4 more frigates 'in the yard'. And before I primed them I took comparison photos of the models. You can check them out on my website as follows
5th and 6th rates:
http://www.edmondsonclan.net/ageofsailsite/Modelships5and6.htm

3rd rates at:
http://www.edmondsonclan.net/ageofsailsite/Modelships3and4.htm

I also picked up a couple of Mr. Langtons small unrated ships (2 Barques and 2 Luggers) as possible dis/honest merchants. My Barques are close to being finished. I think I've got 8 to 10 packs of unopened 1st and 2nd rates for French and British fleets.

I look forward to getting some of the SOG (SGN?) ship models when they're available. As GHQ ships are about 10 to 15 dollars each and I expect SOG models to be similar or higher in price (the WOW airplanes were roughly in this range). I will not have the funds to collect both at the same time. The big advantage of the SOG models will be that they are already painted. Maybe a touch of rigging thread and they might look even nicer. As I age this is becoming more challenging.

Leif

Volunteer
02-11-2013, 14:34
Very good info on your site Leif. I own some of these, but your descriptions are a great help.

Jack Aubrey
02-12-2013, 00:56
At this time I own a huge collection of the "Pirates of the Spanish Main" and the following series (Englisch, France, Spain, USA and some Pirates and Forts and Seamonsters), but I´m waiting for SoG......

Bligh
02-12-2013, 01:59
It would be great to see some of those ships pictured on this site Leif.
Bligh.

RedLeif
02-12-2013, 08:46
Hi,

All the following text was written by me as a guide or suggestions regarding GHQ's product line.

Here is a comparison image of GHQ 3rd rates:
1885
From Left to Right GHQ models #121 (80), #132 (74), #131 (74), #431 (74), #231 (74), & # 232 (64)

Model Data:

GHQ 121: Bucentaure, 80 Gun 3rd Rate
A french design, By the famous French naval architect Jacques Sané. There were two French 80 gun classes during this period, the Tonnant and the Bucentaur. The British had a native 80 gun plan but captured and operated more of the French ships under their own flag than they built. This is the largest 3rd rate model GHQ makes.
Hull Casting: 56mm

GHQ 131: Achille, 74 Gun 3rd Rate
The first of two model 74's by the French designer Sané. The Achille is an example of one of the many Temeraire class ships built for the French Navy. It was launched in 1803 and met her fate at the battle of Trafalgar in 1805. Many of these ships were captured and redeployed by the Royal Navy. This, and its sister model GHQ 132, are the largest 74 gun models GHQ makes.
Hull Casting: 52mm

GHQ 132: Superbe, 74 Gun 3rd Rate
Launched in 1784 the Superbe was another Temeraire class of ship of the line. This is a different casting than GHQ 131 but is similar in length.
Hull Casting: 53mm

GHQ 231: HMS Bellona, 74 Gun 3rd Rate
This 74 gun model represents the British naval architect, Sir Thomas Slades' work (most famous for the Victory). The Bellona was launched back in the 60's and served until 1814. The Bellona class was followed by the numerous classes of 74 gun designs.
Hull Casting: 49mm

GHQ 431: El Montañes, 74 Gun 3rd Rate
This is the Spanish offering in GHQ's 74 gun models. It's prototype appears to have been launched in 1794 and wrecked in 1810 but her two sisters fought at Trafalgar.
Hull Casting: 51mm

GHQ 232: HMS Agamemnon, 64 Gun 3rd Rate
This ship was of the Ardent class of 64's by Slade and launched in the mid 60's. The 64 class was produced up until the late 80's and ships of this type remained in the service throughout the Napoleonic war.
Hull Casting: 46mm

The 3rd and 4th rate ships of the line both featured 2 enclosed decks of guns. But by the 1780's the 50 to 60 gun 4th rate was no longer considered strong enough to serve in the line and few were produced. The '74 was produced in great quantities by both the French and English durign this time as it was a good blend of firepower and manueverability. GHQ offers 6 models of 3rd rates in two different sail setting configutations. As one can see in the photo GHQ's sculptors have done a nice job differentiating the weather decks of these models.

The British tended to order 5 to 10 ships per class and consequently they had numerous classes in their inventory. Whereas the French seemed to standardize on the Temeraire design and built more ships to the same plan. The notable exception to this was the British Venguer class of 40 ships, the first of which was launched in 1810. The records I've seen indicate the Spanish appear to have had very few 'classes' of 74's. They had a good number of them in their fleet but many of them appear to be one off designs. Further research needs to be done regarding this however.


Here is a less technical (and incomplete) comparison of GHQ's 5 & 6th rates and their west indies merchantman model.
1886

Model Data:

141 40 gun La Vengance
Built in 1795, La Vengeance was a large frigate originally designed to carry 24# main guns. In '96 she engaged British ships and in 1800 she engaged the USS Constellation (38) resulting in a draw, with both vessels heavily damaged and withdrawing. She was eventually captured by the British and rearmed with 18 pound guns. This big frigate model makes an excellent 38 to 44 gun frigate for game purposes.
Hull Casting Length:


242 38 gun HMS Shannon
The HMS Shannon (38) was a fine example of the popular Leda class of 38 gun frigates built from 1800 to 1819. HMS Shannon was launched in 1806 and served throughout the Napoleonic War and War of 1812. She won a noteworthy engagement against the USS Chesapeake in 1813. This model ideally portrays a 38 to 40 gun frigate.
Hull Casting Length:


442 38 gun La Diana
243 36 gun HMS Hamadryad
It may have been a fluke or mistake but when I ordered part 442 and 243 from GHQ I received the same casting for both part numbers. If this situation changes on future orders I'll update this page with specifics.
The only record I have of an "HMS Hamadryad" is a 46 gun frigate from 1823. The HMS Dryad (36) was launched in 1795 as a 36 gun frigate armed with 18# guns, and was finally broken up in 1832. She captured the French Proserpine in 1796. This model is an ideal 36 to 38 gun medium frigate.
Hull Casting Length:


241 32 gun HMS Cleopatra
The light frigate HMS Cleopatra was an example of the numerous Amazon class of 32 gun frigates armed with 12# main guns. Launched in 1779, she was very active throughout her carreer in the baltic, Carribean, and other stations fighting bravely against the 40 gun Ville de Milan. This model makes a fine light frigate of 32 or 28 guns.
Hull Casting Length:

(Not Pictured)
341 44 gun USS Constitution
Ships in class: Constitution, President, United States. These were BIG frigates for 1800. They were armed with 24# guns on the gun deck.
342 38 gun USS Constellation
Ships in class: Constellation, Congress. The USS Chessapeake was also rated a 38 gun Frigate but didn't use the same plans as the other two. For model puposes a #342 kit will sufice.
I don't own examples of these two models yet. I will document them further, in the future.

Enjoy
Leif

Attila57
02-12-2013, 11:47
No ships at the moment. But in the future .... :rolleyes:

Bligh
02-12-2013, 11:54
Thanks for that very handsome run through of the classes of vessel Leif.
I can see that i have some reading up to do.
Bligh.

Volunteer
02-12-2013, 16:48
Thanks Leif for reposting this GHQ info here from your http://www.edmondsonclan.net/ageofsailsite web site.

I have completed the following:
GHQ: 20 Gun Sloop of War, 44 Gun East Indiaman converted to an American frigate, HMS Shannon 38, HMS Victory, Le Ocean 120, Le Superbe, Montenes Class 74, West Indies Merchant,
Langton: HMS Glatton 56, La Vengeance French 40, USS Essex 32 gun Frigate, Small Merchant with Scratch Masts & Sails.

Models I have but haven't started yet:
GHQ: 22 gun Spanish Xebec, 18 gun Brig, 20 gun Corvette, 40 gun Frigate, 50 gun HMS Centurion.
Langton: 24 gun Corvette, 14 gun Cutter, 74 gun Large, 76 gun Donegal, Uss Constitution, 100 gun HMS Queen Charlotte, 36 gun French Frigate, 64 gun HMS Agamemnon, 74/80 gun Montanes class, 112 gun Santa Anna class.

7eat51
02-12-2013, 19:41
In the last few weeks, I have collected many Pirates of the Spanish Main ships - thanks Uli. I am looking forward to collecting the Sails of Glory ships once they're released.

I would like to build a nice display model of the USS Constitution sometime. Can anyone recommend a good model for that? This would be for a shelf in a game room, not a mini for a game.

7eat51
02-12-2013, 19:45
Here is a comparison image of GHQ 3rd rates:


Very informative post. Thank you.

Compared to the ships in the top picture, can anyone give an approximation as to the size of the upcoming SoG ships? For example, compared to the leftmost ship (GHQ #121), would the comparable SoG ship extend to the 13cm line, etc.?

Union Jack
02-13-2013, 10:06
40-50 1/2400th Hallmark ships. Mostly unpainted. Sold my French fleet about 20 years ago.

2 15mm Peter Pig ships, the frigate and sloop.

6 1/450 Peter Pig ships

and I did own 1 1/1200th ship, never got round to painting it and it got lost during many postings around the world.

RedLeif
02-13-2013, 10:52
Hi Eric,

So a 1/1000 scale model is about 20% bigger than a 1/1200 scale model.
As the GHQ casting (missing its stern gallery piece by the way) is about 56 mm long, 56 + 11 mm (~20% of 56) = 67 mm.
So yes, very close to, but a few mm shy of the 13 mm mark in the photo.

Leif

7eat51
02-13-2013, 11:43
Hi Leif,

Thanks. That was helpful. I imagine, then, that most of the ships will be between 2 and 3.5 inches.

Not having played naval miniatures before, I am unsure about the size of surface area needed for play. If I were to use a couple of ships, would a 3x5 foot table suffice? How large would you recommend for larger battles? I am preparing a gaming room in the basement, so any idea of what might be needed is appreciated.

Thanks again,
Eric



Hi Eric,

So a 1/1000 scale model is about 20% bigger than a 1/1200 scale model.
As the GHQ casting (missing its stern gallery piece by the way) is about 56 mm long, 56 + 11 mm (~20% of 56) = 67 mm.
So yes, very close to, but a few mm shy of the 13 mm mark in the photo.

Leif

Berthier
02-13-2013, 17:02
Great post Leif.

The new ships at around 60-67mm for 74's are actually going to be quite visually impressive. I wonder then about "scaling" the playing surface, many games have large models and relatively small playing surfaces, they look nice for the sake of playability but need to ignore that a 74 ship that is say 60mm long as a model might be 52 metres long in reality and would have a range of up to 1500 metres. So extreme range is at least 1.8metres on the playing surface, then you need approach room, maneuvre room etc. To be accurate to scale of the ship model, the playing surface could easily be 3metres square and for fleet actions even more enormous! Clearly then the playing surface is not going to be scale.

Volunteer
02-13-2013, 18:50
All the more reason to keep the game in 1:1200 scale, or even 1:2400.

Bligh
02-14-2013, 11:54
1926

1927


Bligh.

Volunteer
02-18-2013, 21:36
Thanks Leif for reposting this GHQ info here from your http://www.edmondsonclan.net/ageofsailsite web site.

I have completed the following:
GHQ: 20 Gun Sloop of War, 44 Gun East Indiaman converted to an American frigate, HMS Shannon 38, HMS Victory, Le Ocean 120, Le Superbe, Montenes Class 74, West Indies Merchant,
Langton: HMS Glatton 56, La Vengeance French 40, USS Essex 32 gun Frigate, Small Merchant with Scratch Masts & Sails.

Models I have but haven't started yet:
GHQ: 22 gun Spanish Xebec, 18 gun Brig, 20 gun Corvette, 40 gun Frigate, 50 gun HMS Centurion.
Langton: 24 gun Corvette, 14 gun Cutter, 74 gun Large, 76 gun Donegal, Uss Constitution, 100 gun HMS Queen Charlotte, 36 gun French Frigate, 64 gun HMS Agamemnon, 74/80 gun Montanes class, 112 gun Santa Anna class.

I forgot that I also have 8 NavWar ships that I haven't built yet, and it looks like I just bought 10 more that are being shipped. They are all Dutch, Danish, and Sweedish. Definitely not the quality of Langtons or GHQs, but I'm sure with a few bits of card to raise the hulls and a decent paint job, plus scratch built masts and sails, they might be presentable on the table with the others.

The Royal Hajj
02-18-2013, 22:03
Hi Leif,

Thanks. That was helpful. I imagine, then, that most of the ships will be between 2 and 3.5 inches.

Not having played naval miniatures before, I am unsure about the size of surface area needed for play. If I were to use a couple of ships, would a 3x5 foot table suffice? How large would you recommend for larger battles? I am preparing a gaming room in the basement, so any idea of what might be needed is appreciated.

Thanks again,
Eric

I'm pretty sure Ares is going to keep close to the playing area they have established for Wings of Glory. Expect to play four ship battles on a dining room table and convention sized games on a 4x6 foot table. I'd also wager a guess on them producing similar game mats to the ones we just got in Wings of Glory. They already have the manufacturing part setup, it's just a matter of printing new artwork fabric to bond to the top of the neophyine rubber.


Great post Leif.

The new ships at around 60-67mm for 74's are actually going to be quite visually impressive. I wonder then about "scaling" the playing surface, many games have large models and relatively small playing surfaces, they look nice for the sake of playability but need to ignore that a 74 ship that is say 60mm long as a model might be 52 metres long in reality and would have a range of up to 1500 metres. So extreme range is at least 1.8metres on the playing surface, then you need approach room, maneuvre room etc. To be accurate to scale of the ship model, the playing surface could easily be 3metres square and for fleet actions even more enormous! Clearly then the playing surface is not going to be scale.

As with just about every game with ranged combat, range is not true to scale with the minis. It's all about a tradeoff between visual appeal and playability.

7eat51
02-18-2013, 22:49
I'm pretty sure Ares is going to keep close to the playing area they have established for Wings of Glory. Expect to play four ship battles on a dining room table and convention sized games on a 4x6 foot table. I'd also wager a guess on them producing similar game mats to the ones we just got in Wings of Glory. They already have the manufacturing part setup, it's just a matter of printing new artwork fabric to bond to the top of the neophyine rubber.

Thanks. This is good to know. It will make playing games at friends' homes more a possibility if dining room tables will suffice.

Do you think mats would include any type of land terrain?

The Royal Hajj
02-18-2013, 23:13
This is purely speculation on my part, but I think that mats might have a coast line or island formed by multiple mats (think the reverse of what the Wings of Glory mats do with their water).

I don't think we will see forts and such on the mats. The problem with mats for this game is, any land features would have to be to scale with the ships... making the area covered with the mats very small.

If it was me making and marketing the mats for this game, I'd offer one mat with a thin coast line along one edge with the sea becoming deeper (indicated by the water color) as it goes out to sea. This mat would match the second mat that would be all "deep" sea. Those would be the only two mats I'd produce. You could build whatever size gaming area you wanted to out of just those two mats while having plenty of sea room and a lee shore.

Coog
02-18-2013, 23:24
I think that it would be better to leave land off the mats. As the ships will not be moving over land as do aircraft in WoG, 3D terrain like islands, coastlines, and forts would give a better appearance and work without a problem. Skullduggery made this post of some islands:

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?358-Island-Terrain&highlight=islands

The Royal Hajj
02-19-2013, 00:03
It totally agree with you Bobby, but thinking from an Ares point of view, their target market is not the hobbyist and would/may not be inclined to build terrain them selves. A single mat with a slice of land running down one side would be give a lot of visual appeal to a game.

SeaRoyal20
02-19-2013, 05:54
Great thread guys. Lots of good information. It helps my planning for the game!