Some desired input...

[Graver]

I dived into SOG at Gen Con this year after years of playing WOW/WOG. As a metal worker and hand engraver i have decided to make more durable versions of the wind attitude indicators. Before i set down to design them I thought I would seek the input of others who have played the game extensively as to suggestions on how to improve the original design for better play. Any thoughts? Thanks!

William the Graver

[ChyronDave]

I have done the same thing with the attitude indicators, except I made mine out of wood (I think I have picks on my profile).

I'm not sure how to improve on the originals for better play except make them stronger. I think most of it will come through custom designing.

[RotS-Targe]

I wouldn't say I've played extensively, I've played a total of one game so far, but, one thing I noticed, once things go to close quarters, the large base of the indicator makes it difficult to get an accurate reading with ships in the way.

[Nightmoss]

Greetings William and welcome aboard the Anchorage. Keith our leader, The Royal Hajj, has created some wooden attitude indicators that you can see here. http://www.aerodromeaccessories.com/index.php/official-products-4/sails-of-glory/wind-attitude-indicator.html

Creations in metal would be interesting to see, but I've not played SoG extensively enough that I could offer suggestions on better implementation?

[Andy Blozinski]

Here's a different design concept:

http://www.litko.net/products/Naval-Glory,-Attitude-Indicator-%281%29.html#.VBjgU2OCuGk

[Graver]

Thank you gentlemen, for you helpful suggestions. They have given me more design ideas to ponder. The reason for wanting to make wind attitude indicators out of brass is several fold, the primary reason being strength and durability. By making the indicator arm out of brass it can be thinner, allowing more accurate readings, without sacrificing structural integrity. The second reason is purely aesthetic in nature, since most nautical instruments of the period were made of brass and hand engraved. A big part of this games appeal, for me at least, is the beauty of its look, and I would like my accessories to reflect this too. Thirdly, I am a metal worker and hand engraver who uses traditional tools and techniques. One should stick with what you know. lol

I have read other postings on the forum wishing that the indicator arm was higher up to accommodate an easier read of the main mast. Have you found this to be a concern? Should the wind attitude adjuster be one solid piece or unscrew for an easier flat storage?

[kenji]

Graver,

If you do build this accessory be sure to share with pictures.

Good luck and thanks.

[Graver]

Graver,

If you do build this accessory be sure to share with pictures.

Good luck and thanks.

I certainly plan on it! I will be curious to see what everyone's opinions will be!

[kenji]

I certainly plan on it! I will be curious to see what everyone's opinions will be!

Depending on how it turns out perhaps other players might want to offer you money to build one for them!

You'll have a small sideline to help fund more toys for you :beer:

[Graver]

If the designs prove successful, I may put a few up on my Etsy site (if you want to see some of my engraving go to https://www.etsy.com/shop/historicengraver and look at sold items. I am just starting to get the shop going again). For now, it is a personal project for me and a few close friends I play with. I suspect they will be cost prohibitive for most people's tastes, being that brass is not cheap and these would be hand made and decorated, requiring several hours work. Although each one would be unique and quite nice!

[kenji]

If the designs prove successful, I may put a few up on my Etsy site (if you want to see some of my engraving go to https://www.etsy.com/shop/historicengraver and look at sold items. I am just starting to get the shop going again). For now, it is a personal project for me and a few close friends I play with. I suspect they will be cost prohibitive for most people's tastes, being that brass is not cheap and these would be hand made and decorated, requiring several hours work. Although each one would be unique and quite nice!

Understood William and thank you.

Regarding the price ... you might be surprised what people would be willing to pay for a collector's piece , especially one that is unique like this. I guess we will see down the road.

[Black-Talon]

I have read other postings on the forum wishing that the indicator arm was higher up to accommodate an easier read of the main mast. Have you found this to be a concern? Should the wind attitude adjuster be one solid piece or unscrew for an easier flat storage?

For me personally, I would want something I can better align with the main mast as you suggest. One issue I notice is that where the mast attaches to the ship is not always the same as the location of the top most mast section. Not sure if that should be considered relevant. Flexibility while in close quarters should at least be considered...perhaps a longer length that can be used at various ship lengths away from the ship whose attitude is being measured? Minimal but sturdy base seems like a must.

Again, personally, detachable wouldn't be a requirement. For such a fine piece, should I be looking to transport or pack it, I would happily find a custom fit location.

Just my two-cents, thanks for sharing such a neat idea!

[Nightmoss]

Andy makes a good point. Due to the step backs on some of the fighting tops you'll frequently see that the very top of the mainmast is not exactly in line from where it enters the deck. I've always measured at deck level, not at the top of the mast?

[7eat51]

Welcome to the crew, William. :salute:

The primary issue I have experienced is the size of the base when in close quarters. Using the official game mats has helped given the wind lines; often, I have eyeballed things when ships are too close to use the wind attitude indicators. Unfortunately, the base is a part of the overall aesthetics.

As for where on the mast, I think as long as the placement is consistent, whether the top or bottom of the mast is used is fine. A GM simply needs to inform everyone at the beginning of a game which schema will be used. If I am correct on that, going to the top seems easier to me.

[Graver]

It is a true pleasure to be in the company of such esteemed colleagues!!

I agree that the size of the base can be a bit cumbersome in close quarter combat, but i think the weight of the brass would allow me to make smaller decorative bases that would still have the same measuring arm length. Is the height and length of the measuring arm sufficient?

What do suggest for decorative motifs? I was thinking period appropriate sea monsters, skulls, and country appropriate heraldic elements. Thoughts? I am excited about starting theses soon!

[Coog]

Welcome aboard William. With so many ships bearing names from Greek mythology, gods and creatures from it, particularly those related to the sea, would seem appropriate motifs.

[Broadsword56]

What do suggest for decorative motifs? I was thinking period appropriate sea monsters, skulls, and country appropriate heraldic elements. Thoughts? I am excited about starting theses soon!

Personally, I'd like to see period-appropriate motifs like those stylized clouds with faces on them and puffed-out cheeks blowing the winds. Or Poseidon and his trident, things like that.

[Kentop]

The ideal tool is also high tech. In my last game, I used a laser level set on vertical. it shines a perfect line along the table, ship and model deck and it's very easy to point directly at the center of the ship, just aft of the mainsail. There are lots of cheap mini laser levels on the market, but one with a custom brass holder with tiny brass wheels like those antique looking navigation chart magnifiers sporting a nautical weather theme would be awesome. You could even add brass sextant-like magnifiers, filters and fine adjustment thumb wheels and it would still fit in the palm of your hand. The beauty of using a laser level is that you can put the level at the edge of the table and you don't have to go near the ships at all to determine wind direction!

Here is a laser level that looks like a capstan. It sells for 8 bucks with free shipping from China! Ditch the tripod, make an elegant brass holder, repaint the yellow plastic and give it a wood tone. It would sell out in minutes at GenCon:

http://www.banggood.com/Mini-Multifunction-Laser-Level-Leveler-Tool-With-Tripod-p-930361.html?currency=USD&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_content=ruby&utm_campaign=Electronic-zeng-us&gclid=CMTslsTo68ACFQWUfgodnioAgg

[kenji]

The ideal tool is also high tech. In my last game, I used a laser level set on vertical. it shines a perfect line along the table, ship and model deck and it's very easy to point directly at the center of the ship, just aft of the mainsail. There are lots of cheap mini laser levels on the market, but one with a custom brass holder with tiny brass wheels like those antique looking navigation chart magnifiers sporting a nautical weather theme would be awesome. You could even add brass sextant-like magnifiers, filters and fine adjustment thumb wheels and it would still fit in the palm of your hand. The beauty of using a laser level is that you can put the level at the edge of the table and you don't have to go near the ships at all to determine wind direction!

Ken ... thank you for sharing that idea, I think it is an excellent approach.

[Andy Blozinski]

I kind of like the Poseidon motif idea.

[Pappy Liam]

I like the facets of the gage.

[Graver]

Wow, so many excellent suggestions! I have some proto types sketched out on paper now and am researching the historical nautical designs. I like the idea of the laser attitude indicators, but think I will stick with modifications the more traditional design. This game has a delightful historical aesthetic that I would hate to spoil with high tech, even if it is cleverly disguised. Although, there is a part of me that would like to make something like that, but have the laser mounted on a great white so I can tell people that I have a friggin shark with a friggin laser beam on its head!

[7eat51]

We discussed using lasers awhile back. I like Kenneth's idea of securing a laser onto a period-based holder.

Bottom line on all of this is whether a given device helps game play go more smoothly. If it doesn't, the aesthetics, in the end, won't matter as it collects dust. My experience from GMing games, thus far, has been that players respect the calls I make, and I try to make them quickly so gameplay is not interrupted.

Personally, I would like a motif based on U.S. frigates - something one would have seen aboard ships during the War of 1812.

[Graver]

It boils down to a matter of opinion and taste. To me the laser is an unneeded and aesthetically distracting addition to the game. To each their own. I find the wind attitude indicators a simple, quick and accurate(as accurate as this particular game needs) measuring tool. While I hope to improve upon them so they are more effective in close quarters, on the whole, I think they are the perfect fit for the game. Now if we were playing a steampunk themed game of dirigible warfare, the Tesla laser cannon indicator would seem more appropriate. But that is just my opinion.

As soon as the free time presents itself, I will start on making the prototypes and will post pictures for input as they are completed. While I have several really good decorative motifs on the drawing board already, please feel free to keep suggesting additional ones!!