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usmc1855
08-19-2014, 18:14
11248
Action between USS Constitution and HMS Guerriere, 19 August 1812. Painting by Anton Otto Fischer, depicting Guerriere's masts going over the side as Constitution rakes her from ahead. Courtesy Miss Katrina S. Fischer. U.S. Naval History and Heritage Command Photograph: NH 48472-KN (Color).

The U.S. Frigate Constitution left Boston, Massachusetts, on 2 August 1812, bound for a raiding cruise off Nova Scotia, the Gulf of St. Lawrence and Newfoundland. Her Commanding Officer, Isaac Hull, was eager to find and fight one of the several Royal Navy frigates then active off North America, and on 18 August an American privateer informed him that one might be found further south. The next afternoon, some 400 miles southeast of the British base at Halifax, a sail was sighted that turned out to be HMS Guerriere, one of the frigates that had fruitlessly pursued Constitution off New York a month earlier.

Guerriere's Captain, James R. Dacres, was also spoiling for a fight. Despite his ship's disadvantages in number and size of guns, and number of crewmen, the long British tradition of victory in ship-to-ship combat against European enemies provided reasonable grounds for Dacres' aggressive optimism. As Constitution approached on this windy, cloudy day, Guerriere began firing alternating broadsides that produced few hits and little damage. Constitution's return fire, limited to a few guns mounted forward, was also ineffective, but this changed markedly as the two ships drew alongside at about six in the evening of 19 August 1812.

A quarter-hour of intense gunnery by Constitution, delivered with much superior accuracy, battered Guerriere in the hull and masts. The British frigate's mizzenmast fell over the side, crippling her ability to maneuver. Constitution then moved ahead to rake Guerriere, whose bowsprit caught in the American's mizzen rigging. Firing continued while the two ships were thus tangled, and both sides prepared boarding parties. Marksmen in the mast tops blazed away at exposed personnel, with deadly effect. Many officers and men were thus killed, including Constitution's Marine lieutenant. Others, Captain Dacres among them, were wounded. As the ships separated, Guerriere's foremast collapsed, pulling down the mainmast with it. She was now a "defenseless hulk", and surrendered at 7 PM, when Constitution approached to renew the action after making brief repairs to her modest damages. British casualties were more than five times those of the Americans, and Guerriere was beyond saving. Her surviving crewmen were taken off the next day, she was set afire and soon blew up. Constitition then returned to Boston with her prisoners, arriving on 30 August.

This battle, the first of several U.S. Navy victories in ship-to-ship contests, encouraged Americans and chagrined the British. Despite the rational excuse that Royal Navy frigates were not as large and powerful as their American counterparts, the real causes of these outcomes were inspired seamanship and vastly better gunnery. For the rest of the 19th Century, long after the War of 1812 was over, America's Navy was credited with an effectiveness that went well beyond its usually modest size.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/war1812/atsea/con-guer.htm

7eat51
08-21-2014, 16:33
Osprey has a nice little title on this in its duel series - actually treats several frigate actions: http://www.amazon.com/Constitution-Guerriere-Frigates-during-1812/dp/1846034345/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1408660170&sr=1-1

SGN_StevenE
08-19-2016, 11:37
Which ship to use as the HMS Guerriere?

SGN###?

Thank you

Coog
08-19-2016, 11:43
Which ship to use as the HMS Guerriere?

SGN###?

Thank you

HMS Sybille SGN105C

Hjl
08-19-2016, 11:52
Oh I want to re-enact this! Who is going to play it out and post an AAR?

Bligh
08-19-2016, 12:46
More than likely I will Hugh.
Rob.

SGN_StevenE
08-19-2016, 12:46
Thank you sir... added to my Sept order list

Bligh
08-19-2016, 12:51
I was just thinking that maybe I should get the book before embarking on anything as rash as this encounter, with many expert American critics ready to spot any mistakes.
Rob.

David Manley
08-19-2016, 13:30
Despite the rational excuse that Royal Navy frigates were not as large and powerful as their American counterparts, the real causes of these outcomes were inspired seamanship and vastly better gunnery

Err, generally not, mainly bigger ships, bigger guns and more of them :happy:

TWR
08-20-2016, 02:12
Don't forget Ares have produced a scenario for this encounter.

http://www.aresgames.eu/wp/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php%3fid=SGN000X-HistoricalScenarios-VictoryConstitution-EN-web.pdf

Bligh
08-20-2016, 02:29
Thanks Keith.
I will find that most useful.
Anyone know if Constitution had Carronades?
Rob.

Bligh
08-20-2016, 09:33
Having now printed off the Ares scenario for this so that I can actually read it, I see that my questions have been answered.
On with the game.
Rob.

Hjl
08-20-2016, 14:12
I await the AAR eagerly!

I challenge you to be the British and overturn history!

Diamondback
08-20-2016, 15:25
Possible minor differences in Secondary battery: Guerriere packed sixteen 32-lb. carronades and two 9-lb. chasers, while Sybille's closest known documented loadout was fourteen 32's and six 9's. Probably won't make much difference--the worry is how the game handles carronades and partial-deck loadout changes.

Bligh
08-20-2016, 15:34
I await the AAR eagerly!

I challenge you to be the British and overturn history!

I was, and I almost did. I will post on Monday after I get back from Partizan. Yes I tried the Carronades on both teams.
Rob.

Bligh
08-25-2016, 03:19
For the account of my action Constitution vs Guerriere see here.

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?4087-Friday-night-we-play-with-our-wives&p=63967#post63967

Rob.

SGN_StevenE
09-09-2016, 18:49
HMS Sybille SGN105C

Ordered... with other ships.... 14 others... help

Bligh
09-10-2016, 07:30
Hi Steve.
It may help you to have a look at the OSA (Old Sailors' Addicts) help line here:-
Once you come out you will feel much better.

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?4224-I-know-I-am-A-Sails-of-Glory-adict-because&p=64220#post64220

This post may also help to reassure you that you are not fighting this alone.

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?3396-How-many-ships-do-you-own

Rob.

SGN_StevenE
09-10-2016, 12:34
Hi Steve.
It may help you to have a look at the OSA (Old Sailors' Addicts) help line here:-
Once you come out you will feel much better.

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?4224-I-know-I-am-A-Sails-of-Glory-adict-because&p=64220#post64220

This post may also help to reassure you that you are not fighting this alone.

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?3396-How-many-ships-do-you-own

Rob.

Posted... I do feel a little better.

How long until the Spanish ships become available?
I have yet to see any at OLGSs.

Diamondback
09-10-2016, 12:48
How long until the Spanish ships become available?
I have yet to see any at OLGSs.

There were two groups of captured/traded French ships in the Wave 1 reprint, and I have a query out with Rob at Ares about that as I type.

--DB, one of the historical consultants who helped bring the game those first Spanish offerings... :)