PDA

View Full Version : What Ratings do we need most?



Diamondback
08-14-2014, 18:18
Trying to do a little informal, unofficial Market Research for Ares here... like my intent with One Ship. Guys, they can't read our minds--unless we tell them what we want, they have to go by guesses! PLEASE, help me help them help you?

First, I need a check on how I've broken down the ratings for categories. This seem OK?
-Heavy First (110+)
-Light First (100-108)
-Heavy Second (90-98)
-Light Second (84-88; a rarity)
-Heavy Third (80; mainly a French/Spanish thing)
-Medium Third (68-74)
-Light Third (62-66)
-Heavy Fourth (56-60; two-deckers or frigates)
-Light Fourth (50-54; two-deckers or frigates)
-Heavy Fifth (40-44; mostly frigates but some small two-deckers)
-Medium Fifth (36-38; frigates)
-Light Fifth (30-34; frigates)
-Heavy Sixth (26-28; corvettes/post-ships)
-Light Sixth (22-24; corvettes/post-ships)
-Heavy Unrated (14-20; ship-sloops and larger brig-sloops)
-Medium Unrated (10-12; gun-brigs and smaller brig-sloops)
-Light Unrated (<10; cutters, schooners etc.)

Then, the main thrust of the question... yes, we all know everybody wants EIM's xebecs, galleys, pirates and everything else under the sun--but looking strictly at WARSHIP sculpts, which ratings do we most want to see? I'll re-summarize what we already have or Ares can easily do with repaints of existing sculpts in a table below; the main question here is "where to start breaking new ground?"
RatingBritishFrenchAmericanSpanishRussianDutch
Heavy First (110+)SGN108 as Ville de Paris/HiberniaSGN106 OceanN/ASGN112 Meregildos
Light First (100-108)SGN108 as most First Rates
SGN201 VictoryN/ASGN108 as Ches'ma
Heavy Second?SGN108 as 1810 Boyne-cl.?N/AN/AN/A
Light Second (84-88)N/AN/AN/A
Heavy Third (80)N/A
Medium Third (68-74)SGN104 Slade Common 74SGN102 1782 Temeraire?Independence as SP?SGN111 Gautier 74sSGN104 as Triokh Sviatitelei
Light Third (62-66)SGN104 as St. Albans/WorcesterSGN109 Artesien 64N/A
Heavy Fourth (56-60)(effective) SGN201 Constitution
Light Fourth (50-54)SGN110 Portland 50N/A
Heavy Fifth (40-44)
Medium Fifth (36-38)SGN105 as LedaSGN105 Hebe
Light Fifth (30-34)SGN103 1773 AmazonSGN101 1777-round 32's
Heavy Sixth (26-28)SGN103 as Enterprise 28
Light Sixth (22-24)
Heavy Unrated (16-20)
Medium Unrated (10-14)SGN107 Swan ship-sloop
Light Unrated (<10)

This isn't necessarily about what you personally want to play so much as "What are the biggest, most critical holes in the game's warship classes that need plugging?" and I'm gonna ask you to pick your one most critical "Action Item" warship type in this poll.

csadn
08-14-2014, 18:34
Well, the obvious holes-to-plug are "no Spanish ships" and "no Dutch ships" (I don't consider the Russians a Big Deal unless one also does their traditional foes, the Swedes and the Turks; and that requires a whole other round of sculpts). Following close behind that is "lack of smaller units of all sides" -- _Swan_ has nothing it can fight with.

That said: Let's face it -- Spanish ships are there mainly to provide pop-up targets for the British, so unless one does a lot of "alternate history" where the Spanish are at least marginally-competent, there's not a lot of point to them. The Dutch ceased to be a meaningful power sometime in the mid-1700s, so their ships are also irrelevant unless one wishes to do "earlier wars" or alt-hist.

So, on that basis, the hole which must be filled first is "more Unrateds", as that covers the small-unit actions throughout the FrenchRev/Napoleonic period.

Oh, and you have two "Heavy Unrated" up there.

Diamondback
08-14-2014, 18:41
Right--I'm not even talking about nationalities, just sizes of ship here. Can't tell you much about expansion nations, but I CAN tell you they have been the subject of discussion and research (and MUCH argument)...

The idea is, narrow a Wave slot down to a rating, then to a nation, then to a sculpting class, and then finally to names on that sculpt. Think of it as a little like how you distill moonshine... :)

Diamondback
08-14-2014, 19:47
Uh, guys, I screwed up the poll... Heavy Unrated's in twice, Medium not at all. :(

Nightmoss
08-14-2014, 22:03
Uh, guys, I screwed up the poll... Heavy Unrated's in twice, Medium not at all. :(

That might change some voting?

Diamondback
08-14-2014, 22:09
So I need an Admin to edit the poll, since I can't figure out how to remove/replace. :(

csadn
08-15-2014, 14:51
So I need an Admin to edit the poll, since I can't figure out how to remove/replace. :(

Or reboot altogether.


Right--I'm not even talking about nationalities, just sizes of ship here. Can't tell you much about expansion nations, but I CAN tell you they have been the subject of discussion and research (and MUCH argument)...

That may be; however, in order to figure out which size to vote for, one must look at the complete list, which includes nationality -- and since there's a complete lack of Eastern nations so far, well, as I said above....


The idea is, narrow a Wave slot down to a rating, then to a nation, then to a sculpting class, and then finally to names on that sculpt. Think of it as a little like how you distill moonshine... :)

I don't know anything about that!

7eat51
08-15-2014, 15:30
Poll has been corrected; however, one vote was previously made for Heavy Unrated. Given the double Heavy Unrated options, it is now registered as Medium Unrated. Depending upon how many vote, this could be of interest. If, however, the majority vote for other types of ships, this potential error will be irrelevant.

csadn
08-16-2014, 15:45
Poll has been corrected; however, one vote was previously made for Heavy Unrated. Given the double Heavy Unrated options, it is now registered as Medium Unrated. Depending upon how many vote, this could be of interest. If, however, the majority vote for other types of ships, this potential error will be irrelevant.

Yup -- that was why I put it there; I figured it was *supposed* to be "Medium Unrated".

David Manley
08-17-2014, 05:41
IMHO (and not wanting to get into the nationality debate as I think the Batavians, Swedes and Russians as well as the Spanish are worth playing for various reasons) the current gap is in the 44 gun region. As I've said before the game works best for frigate actions, and unrated ships under the rules are (again IMHO) unfortunately constrained in the scope of the statting range so the big US and British frigates stick out to me as a hole that needs filling.

Along with Spaniards of course :)

Diamondback
08-17-2014, 19:27
Just a trivial note, I've pinned down a few sculpts that it'd take an absolute moron not to slot in...

French/British shared Tonnant/Bucentaure 80 (most of the RN's 80s were captured T/B's)
US Humphreys 44 mainline release
US Humphreys and Fox 38's (can these tolerably share a sculpt? If not, both become problematic)
British Cruizer brig-sloop
British Cherokee gun-brig
Spanish Ildefonso or Montanes 74 (they seem pretty close)
British 74s derived from 1757 Courageux (any of Carnatic, Blake, Armada classes--late 74, these ships are visually distinguishable from Slade's old 1744 Invincible derivatives we already have)

And then, not sculpts but categories to correct existing slot imbalance:
British medium frigate (I've suggested SGN105 be flipped for most of future runs to be British Leda with the Hebes as the "token French flag")--Lively class is a must for War of 1812
French unrated ship-sloop or similar

Coog
08-17-2014, 19:41
If you are going to have Cruziers, you need to have the American ship-sloops...either Wasp/Hornet or the later large ship-sloops of 1814.

Diamondback
08-17-2014, 19:58
True--I'd say the Wasp/Frolic/Peacock trio are another "key sculpt" as one of the most-produced American designs. (It's SAD when classes of THREE are a country's idea of "mass production"... hard to believe those ragtag flotillas of the Revolutionary and 1812 eras evolved into the churn-out-tin-cans-by-the-gross fleet that carried the day in WWII and the Cold War.)

Cruizer and Cherokee mainly made the list by sheer populations. :)

Coog
08-17-2014, 20:25
True--I'd say the Wasp/Frolic/Peacock trio are another "key sculpt" as one of the most-produced American designs. (It's SAD when classes of THREE are a country's idea of "mass production"... hard to believe those ragtag flotillas of the Revolutionary and 1812 eras evolved into the churn-out-tin-cans-by-the-gross fleet that carried the day in WWII and the Cold War.)

Cruizer and Cherokee mainly made the list by sheer populations. :)

There were also the sloops Erie, Ontario, and Argus. They were considered a different class but appeared identical to Wasp, Peacock, and Frolic above the waterline. Argus was burnt in Washington to prevent capture. Erie and Ontario did not see action in the War of 1812 due to blockades but did participate in the Second Barbary War of 1815.

7eat51
08-17-2014, 22:03
Yup -- that was why I put it there; I figured it was *supposed* to be "Medium Unrated".

Good to know, Chris. Thanks.

Given what we have from Ares already, I am inclined toward the heavy fifth rates.

John Paul
08-18-2014, 00:29
I went with the 80 gun types only because Constitution (44 guns) and Victory (110+) are already on the horizon, so to speak.

Now my second choice would be for at least one or two 50 gunners even though most of those were gone , or converted by the time of the later part of the 1700s. They would be a nice in between type so to speak for small actions to be sure!!

Diamondback
08-18-2014, 14:10
Paul, actually Victory is only a 100, and I didn't include any of the Special Pack releases. :) The Victory sculpt in watered-down form is the basis of SGN108 (not how I would have tackled British three-deckers, but c'est la vie), so I'm hoping we'll see a later SGN1xx Humphreys 44 similarly--and would argue that it would be a huge mistake if they DIDN'T; I've actually proposed a "release candidate" group that only needs stats, paint and sculpt for Ares to run with.

Bobby, that's a big help--now we have to hope they'll be enough to get around the "at least one package of every sculpt must be British flag" rule.

csadn
08-18-2014, 15:50
True--I'd say the Wasp/Frolic/Peacock trio are another "key sculpt" as one of the most-produced American designs. (It's SAD when classes of THREE are a country's idea of "mass production"... hard to believe those ragtag flotillas of the Revolutionary and 1812 eras evolved into the churn-out-tin-cans-by-the-gross fleet that carried the day in WWII and the Cold War.)

To paraphrase Tennyson: The US was not then that strength which in later days would move earth and heaven. Give 'em a break. :)

Also: What about the Great Lakes small-units? I want to replay The Glorious September 11ths (1813 and 1814).

Comte de Brueys
08-18-2014, 21:24
Still a French Heavy Third (80) for me. :wink:

Gunner
08-19-2014, 01:42
Add me for a heavy 3rd rate 80 gun. (Tonnant class)

Diamondback
08-20-2014, 22:15
Also, if anybody who's read this HASN'T chimed in with their picks on "You Get ONE Ship", please do so--that's another way to ID needed sculpts and ships, and hopefully by coming at things from one direction with this thread and from the other with that one, we can get it all to meet up in the middle and give them better guidance about what's likely to sell well. :)

Nightmoss
08-20-2014, 23:55
I'm not sure my vote went through although I am seeing the poll results, which usually means one did so? Either way I'm rather torn between a Heavy 3rd and a Heavy 5th at this point. I suppose the best rating should go to whichever one best fills a gap.

Diamondback
08-20-2014, 23:58
Jim, I think that means your vote's been counted.

Nightmoss
08-21-2014, 00:11
Jim, I think that means your vote's been counted.

Yup, but I voted before Chris spotted the double entry. No worries.

Gunner
08-21-2014, 01:05
I can't believe:question: that with all the members this site has, only 20 care to voice an opinion on what they would like next.

Diamondback
08-21-2014, 01:36
Sadly, Ed, I can... most gamers, actually most people in general, are grognards--they'd rather complain and wait for things to be handed to 'em than roll up sleeves, get involved and be active in trying to help MAKE things happen.

7eat51
08-21-2014, 09:27
I'm not sure my vote went through

As a former employee of Chicago's Board of Election Commissioners, I advise voting often, and if need be, contact an administrator handing him a brown envelope to ensure your desired choice ends on top.


I can't believe:question: that with all the members this site has, only 20 care to voice an opinion on what they would like next.

We have a lot of members, most of whom have not been active for a while. I hope this is just summer, but I imagine some of it might be due to the lack of news about anything coming our way soon.

Gunner
08-21-2014, 12:03
but I imagine some of it might be due to the lack of news about anything coming our way soon.

I'm sure you're right.

Diamondback
08-21-2014, 13:14
ERIC! For shame, encouraging such practices...

In all seriousness, if only Da Coach had seen fit to run for Senate... Ditka for President! LOL :D

Coog
08-21-2014, 13:46
George (CelticCat) has all of the X-Wing stuff, much in multiples. I have the key to his house.


As a former employee of Chicago's Board of Election Commissioners, I advise voting often, and if need be, contact an administrator handing him a brown envelope to ensure your desired choice ends on top.


ERIC! For shame, encouraging such practices...

Careful DB, you might get a dead fish in the mail!:shock:

Gunner
08-21-2014, 14:40
ERIC! For shame, encouraging such practices...

In all seriousness, if only Da Coach had seen fit to run for Senate... Ditka for President! LOL :D

I'll second that.:drinks: But DA guy is too open & honest to be president.

Coog
08-21-2014, 14:55
11249

Gunner
08-21-2014, 16:26
I don't like stickers on my car but, I might make an exception for this one.

7eat51
08-21-2014, 16:57
They were talking about Ditka on the radio this morning, and how it would have been great had he run for the Senate years ago. They hypothesized how things could be different today had he taken the seat instead of Obama. The joys of Illinois politics.

Fish in the mail …. On our wedding day, Sue and I presented a whole roasted pig to her family - one of the many Chinese traditions that day. Her parents then cut off the head and tail to send to my family - again part of the tradition. I laughed to myself because to send an animal's head to an Italian has a slightly different meaning.

csadn
08-21-2014, 17:18
Sadly, Ed, I can... most gamers, actually most people in general, are grognards--they'd rather complain and wait for things to be handed to 'em than roll up sleeves, get involved and be active in trying to help MAKE things happen.

Alternate explanation: Most of us who have tried to get gaming co's to listen to us have been trained "your opinion Does Not Matter; sit down, shut up, and buy what we offer you".

(Let's just say: I'm seeing an example of this right now on Another Well-Known Gaming Company's Forum.... :P )

Mike Ditka as PotUS: I have seen Mike Ditka Angry -- not Football-Field Angry; "NFL has been covering up post-concussion syndrome for decades, and letting players die rather than helping them" Angry. I rather get the impression if he had acquired That Seat, there would be not a few locations in the Middle East covered in a thick layer of radioactive glass....

"And that's all I have to say about that."

Diamondback
08-21-2014, 18:36
Chris, one of the reasons I got the in that I did was implied to be as a conduit for feedback and suggestions.

As for Ditka: And you SURVIVED? I thought he was bad enough on an episode of The Great Food Truck Race where one truck did a total bungle of trying to sell his sausages...

csadn
08-22-2014, 16:21
Chris, one of the reasons I got the in that I did was implied to be as a conduit for feedback and suggestions.

[nod] Unfortunately, I have been doing this long enough... well, to quote Number Six: "Many times bitten -- forever shy."


As for Ditka: And you SURVIVED? I thought he was bad enough on an episode of The Great Food Truck Race where one truck did a total bungle of trying to sell his sausages...

Fortunately I was watching this on TV -- but it was readily apparent the interviewer and crew were making ready to de-ass the area with the quickness, Ditka was *that* obviously angry.... (When you've done security at cons as many times as I have, you learn the signs right quick, so you can be there when someone finally snaps his tether and tries to kill a coolie.)

Wartrain
08-24-2014, 15:55
Went with 26 - 28 gun 6th rate. hopefully French Unite class HMS Surprise

Coog
08-24-2014, 22:14
In all seriousness, if only Da Coach had seen fit to run for Senate... Ditka for President! LOL :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQFxj15IrIw

Gunner
08-24-2014, 23:07
That's the only thing I hold against DA Coach. (Not running in 04) But I don't think his heart could have taken it.

Diamondback
08-25-2014, 12:17
One other note, re "Light Seconds": I only know of ONE in the RN before the end of the Napoleonic era and the subsequent realignment of the rating system and upgunning of most surviving 80's - the 1757 razeeing of 1719 HMS Royal William into a flush-decked three-decker, which ultimately evolved into the Barfleur 90/98's. Maybe the French or Spanish or others had some, though...

Bligh
06-18-2015, 06:52
I voted light third in the end. It will fill a gap for my Squadron.
I did however like the idea of the Razee Frigates.
Rob.

7eat51
06-18-2015, 08:09
Having played more since this poll was conducted, I would like to see more ships from fifths on down. I have enough going up the chain, but without a wider collection of ratings and unrated, I fear the types of scenario options will reach a limit before too long.

Dr.Maturin
12-10-2015, 11:22
I just voted for a Heavy Fifth. Something to pitch against these highly efficient American Frigates which gave us so many problems in 1812.

scourge
12-11-2015, 13:37
We need 50, 60, and 64 gun ships.

I would like to see 'The horrible old Leopard' done as a special boxed set.

Bligh
12-11-2015, 13:45
Of course we have no Seconds, neither heavy nor light, and yet there were 25 of them in British service during the time we cover. Notable names included the Barfleur, and Temeraire.
Rob.

Gunner
12-11-2015, 14:55
We need 50, 60, and 64 gun ships.

I would like to see 'The horrible old Leopard' done as a special boxed set.

The 50 and 64 are in the works.
Welcome:beer: to the Anchorage Michael.

Union Jack
12-12-2015, 03:32
I would rather see ships produced as a class with 2 of the variants named on the in box card. If Ares produced a blister pack of cards with the other ships in that class I'd buy those too. Obviously class cards may have to he combined in a pack to make this viable. I was thinking along the lines of the old Nexus aircraft blister decks

Bligh
12-12-2015, 04:00
That would be a cracking idea Neil. Also unlike the Aircraft packs, if they did not include maneuver decks it would still encourage punters to buy the extra ships in the class too. A win win all round.
Rob.

Naharaht
12-13-2015, 17:04
I have voted for Heavy Fifth-rate because that would include H.M.S. Indefatigable.

Amara
12-14-2015, 00:48
We do NOT need more frigates at the moment; what's urgently needed are 64s, 80s, and 90-98s, and lots of everything for Spain (and the Netherlands).

Amara
12-14-2015, 00:49
...and I'd love to see the Santissima Trinidad and the Indefatigable as Special Edition ships.

Bligh
12-14-2015, 02:05
When you consider the preference chart, it is easy to see just why Ares will not glean any clear indications of what to produce next. Far from being even three main options, there is so much diversity in our requirements that they might just as well do their own thing.
We need a poll of say four main types and see how that pans out.
Rob.

Gunner
12-14-2015, 12:19
When you consider the preference chart, it is easy to see just why Ares will not glean any clear indications of what to produce next. Far from being even three main options, there is so much diversity in our requirements that they might just as well do their own thing.
We need a poll of say four main types and see how that pans out.
Rob.

Good idea Rob. :beer:
Since the Aerodrome is only one of the sites that have SOG followers I would like to see Ares ask that same question on their site and go from there. Maybe along the lines of, for our next release choose your first and second choice from each of the following,

1. Nationality:

2. Rate or type of ship:

3. Sail settings:

4. Color scheme:

Comments:

Maybe we could do the same.

Nightmoss
12-14-2015, 12:24
Makes me wonder if we need another nation more (or less) than more rated ships?

Bligh
12-14-2015, 15:00
Makes me wonder if we need another nation more (or less) than more rated ships?

That opens up a whole new ball game. For my Indian Ocean escapade I would quite like a few Dutchmen.
Rob.

Gunner
12-14-2015, 15:13
I'll surprise you with my nationality picks, Russians and Turks. :beer:

Nightmoss
12-14-2015, 15:44
I'll surprise you with my nationality picks, Russians and Turks. :beer:

Doesn't surprise me at all. :wink: I'd quite like to see 'green' Russians and Turks as well. :rum:

Gunner
12-14-2015, 16:15
Doesn't surprise me at all. :wink: I'd quite like to see 'green' Russians and Turks as well. :rum:

But very, very dark green (he'll think it's black) to please Rory :takecover: :drinks:

Nightmoss
12-14-2015, 18:41
But very, very dark green (he'll think it's black) to please Rory :takecover: :drinks:

:wink: :drinks:

7eat51
12-14-2015, 22:18
I would like to see smaller ships. I think they would enable significantly different types of scenarios.

7eat51
12-14-2015, 22:20
We need 50, 60, and 64 gun ships.

I would like to see 'The horrible old Leopard' done as a special boxed set.

Hi Michael,

Not sure if you are aware, but there is a solo campaign brewing for 2016.

We're glad you have joined our motley crew. :beer:

Naharaht
12-15-2015, 22:16
Smaller ships could include pirates and merchantmen, which would add extra dimensions to the game.

Gunner
12-15-2015, 23:25
Smaller ships could include pirates and merchantmen, which would add extra dimensions to the game.

I'd be surprised if at least the merchantmen wasn't released by the 4th quarter 2016 as a special single or two pack.
Or is that, I'd be dreaming if at least the merchantmen wasn't released by the 4th quarter 2016 as a special single or two pack:beer:

Nightmoss
12-16-2015, 10:54
I'd be surprised if at least the merchantmen wasn't released by the 4th quarter 2016 as a special single or two pack.
Or is that, I'd be dreaming if at least the merchantmen wasn't released by the 4th quarter 2016 as a special single or two pack:beer:

I know I tend to be impatient, but does anyone else think it's odd, if not downright annoying, that there's been no "official" word from Ares regarding the future of Sails of Glory for months? Blurbs on Facebook and BoardGame Geek don't really fit the bill and aren't necessarily reliable in any case. I guess I must be dreaming and will be very surprised if we hear anything before the end of the year. :sad:

7eat51
12-16-2015, 11:02
Jim, the reality is, I believe, that Ares has bigger fish to catch with its other lines - the popular-level games they have marketed through KS lately. I think Ares attitude toward SoG is not unlike the U.K.'s attitude to the War of 1812, to borrow an analogy from our time period.

To that end, I am a member of the Anchorage and Aerodrome, and not an Ares booster club member.

KDz
03-07-2016, 03:49
I've voted for Heavy First - Santisima Trinidad (I wish) :happy:

Diamondback
03-07-2016, 15:58
Well, we're getting merchies in Wave 4--four EIM's alongside Bonhomme Richard. BHR is a "mainline" release, not a Special, though se did take kind of a "special" approach to get her into the game at all. I'll explain more when the full roster is announced... but trust me, our "Community Created Wave" is gonna have a little something for everyone. :)

Diamondback
06-07-2016, 18:32
At this point, since the poll needs a re-boot I'm inclined to suggest this poll be closed and the thread locked.

Bligh
06-08-2016, 03:48
Your wish is my command sir.
Bligh.