You get ONE ship...

[Diamondback]

Don't construe this as anything official because it's not, but I just had a random thought pop into mind, and thought I'd ask the question to help guide my research.

Scenario: You get to pick ONE ship to have included in Sails of Glory. Not a class or a generic description like "pirate" or "East Indiaman" or "Meregildos SOL", ONE specific ship, and it can't be one of the fictional ones from the Hornblower or Aubrey-Maturin canons--it has to have actually existed, and it has to not be an existing Sails of Glory sculpt. Which ONE ship--not one Side A/Side B pair, but one SINGLE ship--is your pick? Date of launch would be helpful too--there were at least two HMS Culloden 74-gun SOL's for example, so dates help me tell which one you mean and identify a potential class sculpt (and are frankly MUCH more helpful than gun ratings).

Then that led to another question... Same scenario, but it has to be a sister ship of an existing sculpt--to be clear, NOT a sister ship of a new sculpt you're proposing, an existing SGN101-108, SGN201 or SGN202 sculpt. Which ONE ship would you want to see above all others?

And please, don't ask me for my answers, as I don't know yet--when I do I'll chime in. If it helps, please see my Stretching Sculpts threads for notes about what I think Ares can reasonably do as repaints of existing sculpts.

EDIT: OK, I'll tabulate recorded results here... If ships from the same class show up I'll slot them into the same cell.
New SculptSpecific Ships for Sculpt
one-off SP Santissima TrinidadSantissima Trinidad - Amara
one-off USS Essex frigateUSS Essex - Coog, 7eat51
FR Tonnant/Bucentaure 80 SOLFR Bucentaure - Comte de Brueys
UK Lively 38 frigateHMS Lively - Jack Aubrey
UK Ardent 64 SOLHMS Agamemnon - Berthier, Cpt. Kangaroo, HMS Lydia, DeRuyter
one-off US Niagara 20-gun brigUSS Niagara - CSherrange
US Doughty 20-gun ship-sloop1814 USS Wasp - csadn
UK Dreadnought 98 SOLHMS Temeraire - Capn Duff
HMS Neptune - TexaS
SKU/Existing sculptRequested Reprints
SGN101 1777 French 12# 32
SGN102 Temeraire-family 74FR America - Nightmoss
FR Droits de l'Homme - Amara
SGN103 1773 Amazon 12# 32
SGN104 Slade Common 74UK HMS Resolution - Capn Duff
SGN105 Hebe and related 38/40sHMS Shannon - HMS Lydia
SGN106 Ocean 118 First Rate
SGN107 1767 Swan 14 ship-sloopHMS Kingfisher - csadn
SGN108/201 British First RatesRU 1784 Rostislav (Ches'ma class; Victory clone) - Gunner
SGN109 FR 1765 Artesien 64
SGN110 UK Portland 50
SGN111 SP Gautier 74s
(SJN et al, stretched to include Bahama)
SGN112 SP Meregildos 112 SOLSP Santa Ana - Nightmoss
SP Real Carlos - TexaS
SGN202/1xx? USS Constitution
(Humphreys 44)USS United States - 7eat51, DeRuyter

[Coog]

USS Essex...One side of card for its original design as a 12-pounder frigate and the other side as the War of 1812 frigate loaded with 32-pounder carronades.

[Nightmoss]

OK, here's what I'd like:

One ship, non existing sculpt: Santa Ana (112)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_ship_Santa_Ana_%281784%29
http://www.todoababor.es/listado/navio-santaana2.htm

One ship, existing sculpt is a lot harder for me as I'm not that knowledgeable, but the America before she became the HMS Impetueux might be acceptable:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ship_America_%281788%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ship_Imp%C3%A9tueux_%281787%29

[Comte de Brueys]

Bucentaure

80-gun ship of the line of the French Navy

Fought at Trafalgar :salute:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ship_Bucentaure_(1803)

[Diamondback]

Sven, that's as a new sculpt, right? Also, for future replies, please note "New" or "Reprint"; I'm allowing one of each per voter. :)

[Jack Aubrey]

For me:
New sculpt: HMS Lively 5th rate 38 guns 18 lb :cannon:
Jack

[Berthier]

Agamemnon 1781 64gun, new scuplt. Historically significant, new class make some good scenarios against frigates and privateers raiding convoys, earlier period battles etc.

[Cpt Kangaroo]

HMS Agamemnon (1781). ('Ole Eggs-and-bacon)
Ardent Class 3 64 gun SOL
Sister ship HMS Indefatigable (1784)

[CSherrange]

New sculpt-

Brig of 20 guns
USS Niagra, flip side USS Lawrence

Was armed with only Carronades, so maybe an increased broadside but may only shoot to range 'B' would be acceptable.

[Diamondback]

Uh, guys, let me be clear: Not "one package both sides", "ONE ship" whether it ends up a Side A or a Side B... Erin, I'm not counting your vote for Indefatigable because it's not an existing sculpt, Charles ditto re Lawrence.

Geez, ya give people an inch... :p LOL

[CSherrange]

Sorry! Just the Niagra then. My marketing kicked in and automatically added the 'flip' side.
:happy:

[Diamondback]

Understandable, part of my thinking was to refine that with a future poll later--this thread's mainly to guide me in opening up a new line of research, about "what new sculpts do we need to check the boxes for key ships of the time" and then my own research identifying candidate pools to fill out the "six-packs" required for wave production of a sculpt, then opening up a later poll about which ones should make the final cut.

Happens to me occasionally, too. :)

[Gunner]

The Russian ship Rostislav 1784 100 gun. Admiral Greig's flagship.
Flip side, any Ches'ma class.
Close copy of the HMS Victory.

[csadn]

New: USS _Wasp_, 1814 version -- "the light which burns twice as bright burns half as long; and you have burned *so* very brightly...."
[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Wasp_%281814%29 ]

Reprints: I really couldn't care less -- "they all look alike", so there's not a lot of point to actually naming them except for organizational purposes.

Update: Found a prospect for a _Swan_ reprint -- HMS _Kingfisher_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Kingfisher_%281770%29 ; best known for taking part in the AmRev Battle of Turtle Gut Inlet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Turtle_Gut_Inlet .

[Gunner]

SGN201?? Is that the SGN # for the Victory?

[Diamondback]

As I understand it, yes, Ed. 201 = Victory, 202 = Constitution.

101 is the French 32s, 102 the Temeraires, 103 the Amazon 32s, 104 the Slade 74s and their relatives (which I'd extend to include the Triumph/Valiant pair of Large 74s and the St. Albans 64s as well and possibly their ultimate ancestor the 1744 French SOL Invincible), 105 the Hebe/Leda/Virginie/Hortense/Pallas group including Milanaise and Consolante variations, 106 the Ocean 118's and possibly the pair of Commerce de Paris 110s, 107 the ludicrous-huge Swan class of ship-sloops, 108 the British First Rates all lumped together around a sculpt based on HMS Victory and possibly their Second Rate little siblings if a line of research I'm running down pans out.

[Capn Duff]

New sculpt
HMS Temeraire 98 gun 2nd rate launched 1798

Sister ship HMS Resolution (Elizabeth class SoL)

[7eat51]

Reprint of the Constitution = USS United States
New Sculpt = USS Essex

[Capn Duff]

Hms Temeraire is Neptune class SoL ( did some further checking). 1798 -1838

[Diamondback]

Capn, I've seen the class referred to by both names--frequently referred to as Dreadnought to avoid the same confusion between it and the 1750s Neptunes that invariably happens between the 1790 and 1810 Boynes, and I noted the AKA over in my "Stretching Sculpts" thread on SGN108.

You raise a point well worth noting.

[Diamondback]

And just to summarize where we are so far...



Rate/Desc
British
French
American
Spanish


110+ 3-4-deck SOL

6x SGN106 Ocean
N/A
6x SGN112 Meregildos


100 3-deck SOL
6x SGN108 Generic 1st Rate
1x SGN201 HMS Victory

N/A



90-98 3-deck SOL


N/A



80/84 2-deck SOL
sugg cap FR Tonnant/Bucentaure 80
sugg Tonnant/Bucentaure 80
N/A



Large 74 2-deck SOL
sug SGN104 RP as Triumph/Valiant

Sug Independence



Middling 74 2-deck SOL
2x SGN102
2xSGN111
4x SGN102
N/A
2x SGN102
4xSGN111


68- to Common 74 2-deck SOL
6x SGN104
2x SGN104
N/A



62-66 2-deck SOL
sugg SGN104 as St. Albans 64
2x SGN109
4x SGN109
N/A



56-60 2-decker






56-60 frigate






44-50 2-decker
4x SGN110
2x SGN110




44-50 frigate


1x SGN202 USS Constitution



38-42 frigate
2x SGN105
4x SGN105




30-36 frigate
2x SGN101
6x SGN103
4x SGN101
2x SGN103

2x SGN101


26-28 corvette/post-ship






20-24 corvette/post-ship






14-18 ship-sloop
2x SGN107
2x SGN107
2x SGN107



14-18 brig-sloop






12 or less gun-brig

[Capn Duff]

Just to Clarify Diamondback, for my suggested Hms Temeraire, you suggest to use existing 108 ship?
If so which A,B or C ?

I must admit to already getting some extra Sol models from series one and have made the America for the French and Hms Renown and Revenge for the RN ( my father served on both these two Polaris versions)

[Diamondback]

Chris, for HMS Temeraire that's two datapoints--a class to cut the sculpt tooling for, and then the specific ship you chose. HMS Temeraire would statistically be most closely approximated by an existing First Rate, though I'm not sure precisely how they cook the numbers at Ares for game stats. Maybe kick a Gunnery stats drop one box left. I'm not sure which one would be best statistically, as I don't have any First Rates in-hand yet--I'm waiting for the improved packages. :)

The main thrust here is, telling Ares what new sculpts we want to see, and what ships we want to see both on those sculpts and as re-releases of existing sculpts. :) We're talking the "physical product" portion of game development here, not the "game stats" side.

Also, that last table was just to show what kind of territory we have already covered, or I believe we could reasonably cover, using only existing sculpts. The only reason I make an exception for Tonnant/Bucentaure is that they're kind of the "if you DON'T do this you need a Gibbs Slap" choice for both British and French 80-84s in the Napoleonic era.

[Capn Duff]

Kk, thanks for the explanation Diamond back, appreciate it

[Diamondback]

Bumping to the top with additions and deletions for forthcoming SGN109-112 release (changes in red).

Folks, I can't say they'll act on our recommendations from this survey but Ares IS listening and considering our input.

[HMS Lydia]

Non-existing Sculpt - Ardent Class 64 gun 3rd Rate, I can live with HMS Agamemnon (1781) since it has already been mentioned.

Existing Sculpt - Any of the Leda class using SGN105 (yes I know, officially there is no sculpt, but if they were that close to Hebe's then wouldn't they just be a repring of the Hebes?) I could go with HMS Lively since it has also already been put forward.

[TexaS]

Real Carlos (1787) - Meregildos

Indivisible (1799) - Tonnant

[Diamondback]

Bob, they weren't "close" but cosmetically dead-on recreations (the major difference was heavier structural members inside the planking)--I would count on a Leda being an SGN105 reprint, but I need a specific ship name. If memory serves, Broke's HMS Shannon which took USS Chesapeake was one...

[Diamondback]

BTW, personal @Nightmoss, you might want to rethink your new-sculpt choice now that a Meregildos is confirmed.

[Amara]

New sculpt: FR Tonnant/Bucentaure 80: Tonnant (and a repaint as HMS Tonnant :happy: )

It's a coin flip between the Bucentaure/Tonnant 80 and a British 98; according to my spreadsheet, I need four of each to be able to do the major battles.

Existing sculpt: stretch SGN 105 to Pallas-class FR Renommée (and repaint as HMS Java, and repaint again as USS Java :thumbsup: )

...or more Temeraires? I need at least nine more of them, according to my Spreadsheet of Doom.

[Diamondback]

Susan, gonna have to ask you to pick just one in each category. :) One ship for the new sculpt (Tonnant or HMS Tonnant, not both--in this game we have to treat a flag change as a de facto "new ship" because it means needing a new SKU for the new flag and paintscheme), and one SGN105 reprint.

Just an FYI: USS Java wasn't the captured HMS Java (which was burned at sea), but one of two 1814-launched revivals of the Humphreys 44 design (USS Guerriere, named after similarly burned HMS Guerriere, was the other).

[HMS Lydia]

Bob, they weren't "close" but cosmetically dead-on recreations (the major difference was heavier structural members inside the planking)--I would count on a Leda being an SGN105 reprint, but I need a specific ship name. If memory serves, Broke's HMS Shannon which took USS Chesapeake was one...

DB - HMS Shannon works for me....

[Amara]

On second thought, I could get away with using Temeraires for the Tonnants and Bucentaures if I absolutely had to, but the one ship that absolutely can't have anything else substituted for it is the Santissima Trinidad. So that would be my one new sculpt, as a special edition.

(I'd totally be asking for Lawrence and Niagara as my new sculpt if I hadn't just bought those two from Shapeways.)

Also on second thought, I need more Temeraires a lot more than I need any more frigates. So: Droits de l'Homme, unless you can think of a Temeraire that isn't already done that made it to more than one major battle. (Especially if Ares ever did Indefatigable down the road.)

[DeRuyter]

New: HMS Agamemnon -because we need 64s and this is the one to do!

Reprint: USS United States - need more US ships and could see scenarios including a 64.

[Diamondback]

Bumped, table revised and accurized, and Ares is watching this on an unofficial basis.

[Coog]

I would again say the U. S. built ships we have talked about before, but from what's previously been discussed about the limited number of possibilities with sculpts for U. S. built ships and my own gut feelings, I see little possibility of seeing any other sculpts of U. S. built ships beyond the 44 gun frigate used for Constitution. At best we could see American flagged foreign built ships of the Revolutionary period like the Swan class.

I believe Ares has a set production formula for sculpts as they do for WOG. Each wave will have 4 ships with three color schemes, and each of those color schemes will have two ship names for it of the same nationality. Each wave will have repaints meeting the same wave requirements. There is the possibility of special packs for large ships and repaints of those. I do not see them breaking away from this formula no matter how popular a ship that does not formula might be.

Ships of interest I think we could see:

East Indiaman - this could include the Bonhomme Richard if there is an American flagged East Indiaman for a second American flagged ship name.

64 gun British SOL - HMS Africa and sisters. This would be in keeping with the Trafalgar type fleets being produced.

Unité class corvettes - I can't believe Ares would pass this up for HMS Surprise alone.

[Diamondback]

Bobby, they've deviated once before on the Oceans--there was a single British-flag specimen, but she was rerated a noncombatant storeship rather than taking a place in the line, so they did 3x2 French. Correct on 4 sculpts/3 schemes/two same-flag names... but since they've established precedent with *one* no-reflag offering, that's a toe in the door.

BHR has no other similar American ships--thought I'd seen one but haven't been able to find it again, so for her I've suggested we do the two sides for As She Was and What Jones Wanted Her To Be. I do, however, have enough French-flag relatives to make a full wave with BHR as a Special Pack like Victory was from SGN108, and have been toying with the idea of unless FCI flew a different flag than the French Navy suggesting a log with Merchant and Military stats on opposite sides for the same ship, which would buy us some further reprint stretch.

[TexaS]

I'd like to exchange my new ship Tonnant-class, Indivisible 1799 for the Dreadnought-class, HMS Neptune 1797. (...or whatever class is decided for the British second rates (London?) that will still make stretched repaints)

I get by with my homebuilt Tonnants.

As we don't have any names yet, I'm not sure if my repaint Real Carlos is on the list yet, but I'm guessing she would be.
I still would have to think it over. If I hadn't done Magicienne already she would've been high on the list.

[Diamondback]

Done and done--I figure the OP will see overhaul every time a new set is announced or data about new reprints comes out.