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View Full Version : The 'Quarterdeck' (for Ship Mat, Ship Log, Ship Card, Maneuver Card(s))



kippryon
05-26-2014, 22:03
All,
Need help finding a source to build the following, in acrylic preferably (until I save up to get a 3D printer or Laser machine), which I call 'The Quarterdeck'.
It would essentially be an sturdy 'plate' to hold the Ship Mat, Ship Log, Ship Card, & Maneuver Card(s).
Would like them to be made in several different colours (1 colour per 'Quarterdeck'), to distinguish each players' ship(s).

Have made all measurements (in metric), and would essentially be only 2 different layers.
Any comments, suggestions, or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

The Royal Hajj
05-27-2014, 08:25
Kipp, this is something I could do for you after Origins. How many total would you be wanting, how many different colors and how many of each color?

I'll be working on my own design of a Quarterdeck after I get some more games in and feedback from more players on what they want on it and such. It will be similar to my Wings of Glory cockpits, but most likely made out of wood to match the other SGN accessories I offer.

kippryon
05-27-2014, 08:44
Keith, Thanks much!
Since you plan on doing something similar as well, please feel free to take what I sent as use any of it as you wish.
I have all the above done in Visio files, so if you want them, I'll gladly send them to you.

Thanks again for all you do!
BTW - I assume you have a Laser cutter/engraver. Mind if I ask what brand and your opinion of it?
(been browsing them for a while now - Epilog/Boss/etc...)

The Royal Hajj
05-27-2014, 09:03
I'll have to redraw these in either Corel or AI in order to get them to my laser... unless you can save them out as EPS files and email those to me. I should be able to import those and work from there.

I bought an Epilog Mini 24 60w several months ago. I like it quite a bit and was able to start production runs with it on day one (but then I'd been designing the "laser" files for my products for years, just sending them to someone else to cut/engrave). The biggest issue with the new laser was getting the exhaust system setup correctly.

kippryon
05-27-2014, 09:14
I have Corel X7, so just let me know the format you want/prefer.

Epilog. Yep, That does seem to be the most preferred brand - and I concur.
And from my analysis, the exhaust system (and possibly cooling system) would be the biggest hassle.

The Royal Hajj
05-27-2014, 09:23
I'm running X5, so if you just same them to a .cdr for that version, I should be fine. Any lines that should cut need to be Hairline and red. Anything that should be engraved needs to be black (I'll adjust the size/weight of those for best results).

For 1/8 colored acrylic, I currently have stocked these colors:

10002

That image is from my wife’s scrapbooking embellishment site. lol

Add to that black, white and tinted that I use for my products. They could also be made out of the new material I used on the Deluxe Advanced Cockpit as well (but they would be pricey).

kippryon
05-27-2014, 09:55
What is the new material?
You mentioned making these of wood, do you mean Balsa?
I would think that something this large would benefit from a more ridged material if so.

Insofar as the acrylic, my thought as to the various colours was to be able to distinguish from across a larger table, as well as longevity at conventions (plus resistant to 'spillage').

kippryon
05-27-2014, 10:36
I'm running X5, so if you just same them to a .cdr for that version, I should be fine. Any lines that should cut need to be Hairline and red. Anything that should be engraved needs to be black (I'll adjust the size/weight of those for best results).



So, just to be clear (before I adjust the drawings as requested) - this is a 2 level project. In other words, the entire thing is 3mm thick overall, and 5mm thick in other areas.
Am I making any sense?
Is that possible in 1 run, or do the cuts need to be made in 2 separate pieces and then 'glued' together?

The Royal Hajj
05-27-2014, 11:03
What is the new material?
You mentioned making these of wood, do you mean Balsa?
I would think that something this large would benefit from a more ridged material if so.

Insofar as the acrylic, my thought as to the various colours was to be able to distinguish from across a larger table, as well as longevity at conventions (plus resistant to 'spillage').

I use Baltic Birch for my wood accessories. Much tougher than Balsa. On this project, wood might want to warp some... would have to look into that a little. I do think the colored acrylic would be good for ease of recoginition. For Cons, it would be really good if the ships base was color coded some how to match the Quarterdeck. Perhaps paint the back edge of the base to match.


So, just to be clear (before I adjust the drawings as requested) - this is a 2 level project. In other words, the entire thing is 3mm thick overall, and 5mm thick in other areas.
Am I making any sense?
Is that possible in 1 run, or do the cuts need to be made in 2 separate pieces and then 'glued' together?

It will have to be layered. So in your image above, the blue would be a solid sheet of acrylic at 290x235mm. The red would also measure that, but would have most of it cut away (to reviele the blue beneath). If we use what I have on hand, each layer would be 3.175mm thick.

The new material is a special dule color laerable acrylic. You can see it in use here (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?18763-One-and-a-half-new-products&highlight=deluxe). That is white that engraves to black. There are other color options as well.

kippryon
05-27-2014, 11:34
I do think the colored acrylic would be good for ease of recoginition. For Cons, it would be really good if the ships base was color coded some how to match the Quarterdeck. Perhaps paint the back edge of the base to match.

Agreed about the acrylic toughness and recognition. Speaking of which, this topic has come up before, as in if you had 2 of the same model and wanted to use each of the ships (i.e., Courageuse & Unite) in the same battle.
Originally, we have used 1/16 'Pin-striping' tape (which comes in many different colours) and made pennants for the Mainmast (pain to make, but look really good). However, now that we have many more ships, colour coding the base would be the optimum way to go, as we never use all of them in a single battle - and they are interchangeable.



It will have to be layered. So in your image above, the blue would be a solid sheet of acrylic at 290x235mm. The red would also measure that, but would have most of it cut away (to reviele the blue beneath). If we use what I have on hand, each layer would be 3.175mm thick.

The 'red' and the 'blue' are only for visually representing the different layers in the drawings, the end product would be ALL the same color.
Yes, I think 3.175mm for each layer would be fine. I will adjust the drawings accordingly, and split them into 'Top Layer' & 'Bottom Layer'.


The new material is a special dule color laerable acrylic. You can see it in use here (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?18763-One-and-a-half-new-products&highlight=deluxe). That is white that engraves to black. There are other color options as well.

I'll look at the new material. Sounds cool.
I assume it is the same thickness?

kippryon
05-27-2014, 11:55
The new material is a special dule color laerable acrylic. There are other color options as well.

Would this link suffice for the available color options?:
https://www.inventables.com/categories/materials/acrylic?utf8=%E2%9C%93&selected_filters%5BEffect%5D%5B%5D=2+color

The Royal Hajj
05-27-2014, 12:55
The 'red' and the 'blue' are only for visually representing the different layers in the drawings, the end product would be ALL the same color.
Yes, I think 3.175mm for each layer would be fine. I will adjust the drawings accordingly, and split them into 'Top Layer' & 'Bottom Layer'.



I'll look at the new material. Sounds cool.
I assume it is the same thickness?

Yes, I was just using the red and blue to show what the layers would be... a single color would look much better. I typically use Rowmark LaserMax (http://www.rowmark.com/laser/LaserMAX/lasermax.asp), the Inventables stuff would work just as well. The Rowmark is 3mm thick.

kippryon
05-27-2014, 13:41
Thanks!
I do like the new Deluxe Cockpit!
In fact, it gave me the idea that the whole deck (maneuver in this case) needs to be a part of the Quarterdeck (possibly).
With THAT in mind, I'm sure you know that the reason for the 'double layer' in the Quarterdeck design is so the cards do not 'slide around'.
Just sayin'... Still really like the Cockpit and the 2-colour acrylics.
(Now... to determine the $...)

Oh... 1 more question (for now):
As it would seem that the 2 layers will need to be 'attached/assembled', does Rowmark offer any Adhesive-Backed acrylics (2-colour, preferably).
Seems that if the 'upper' layer had that, then assembly would be better (thoughts/comments)?

Ducky
05-27-2014, 14:17
This quarterdeck looks awesome!
Maybe its an idea to include the shipmat with its graphic in the acrylic aswell.
So you only have to use your ship log and card and the movement cards?

kippryon
05-27-2014, 14:47
Me thinks you misunderstand a bit. I think there is some general confusion concerning the Ship MAT and the Ship LOG.
The MATS are generic. The LOG has the details for the individual Ship.

This 'device' will hold:
The Ship Mat
The Ship Log
The Ship Card
2 Maneuver Cards

Ducky
05-27-2014, 15:20
No I understand you...

Since the ship mat is generic it could be molded into the quarterdeck, when you do this only the ship specific are needed:
The ship log, ship card and maneuver cards:wink:

The Royal Hajj
05-27-2014, 17:32
Thanks!
I do like the new Deluxe Cockpit!
In fact, it gave me the idea that the whole deck (maneuver in this case) needs to be a part of the Quarterdeck (possibly).
With THAT in mind, I'm sure you know that the reason for the 'double layer' in the Quarterdeck design is so the cards do not 'slide around'.
Just sayin'... Still really like the Cockpit and the 2-colour acrylics.
(Now... to determine the $...)

Oh... 1 more question (for now):
As it would seem that the 2 layers will need to be 'attached/assembled', does Rowmark offer any Adhesive-Backed acrylics (2-colour, preferably).
Seems that if the 'upper' layer had that, then assembly would be better (thoughts/comments)?

Yes, the LaserMax really produces a finished looking product. I'm currently testing keeping the cards in place by engraving deeper on the LaserMax material (I'm doing this on the WGS version of the cockpit). If this works out, there would be no need for two layers. For the cockpits, I've taken the cards vertical as much as possible so that it has a smaller foot print on the gaming table.

I beleive that Rowmark makes a PSA backing on one of their plastics, but not the LaserMax. I'd have to look into that (pretty sure its only on some of their really think plastics). But as you can imagine, all these cool materials add to the cost :(


No I understand you...

Since the ship mat is generic it could be molded into the quarterdeck, when you do this only the ship specific are needed:
The ship log, ship card and maneuver cards:wink:

It could be done that way, but copyright issue could be a concern. But I'm sure I could work that out with Ares.

kippryon
05-27-2014, 18:03
Yes, the LaserMax really produces a finished looking product. I'm currently testing keeping the cards in place by engraving deeper on the LaserMax material (I'm doing this on the WGS version of the cockpit). If this works out, there would be no need for two layers. For the cockpits, I've taken the cards vertical as much as possible so that it has a smaller foot print on the gaming table.

I beleive that Rowmark makes a PSA backing on one of their plastics, but not the LaserMax. I'd have to look into that (pretty sure its only on some of their really think plastics). But as you can imagine, all these cool materials add to the cost :(.

Agreed on all points.
WHAT will be very interesting, and would have a significant effect on the Quarterdeck design - will be your engraving deeper endeavor.
Please do keep me posted, including the depth measurements.
I read about the LaserMAX product line, what about the LaserMARK products.

Also, it appears that for the Cockpit, you are using 'slots' for the vertical pieces, (possibly a better way that what I was originally thinking), is that more cost-effective?
And I whole-heartily agree that the smallest possible footprint is desired.
I'll continue investigating and send you whatever I may find.

kippryon
05-27-2014, 18:05
No I understand you...

Since the ship mat is generic it could be molded into the quarterdeck, when you do this only the ship specific are needed:
The ship log, ship card and maneuver cards:wink:

Andy, you have a very good point... I'll work up an 'alternate' design, pending possible approval from Ares.

Thanks for the thought!

The Royal Hajj
05-28-2014, 07:51
Agreed on all points.
WHAT will be very interesting, and would have a significant effect on the Quarterdeck design - will be your engraving deeper endeavor.
Please do keep me posted, including the depth measurements.
I read about the LaserMAX product line, what about the LaserMARK products.

Also, it appears that for the Cockpit, you are using 'slots' for the vertical pieces, (possibly a better way that what I was originally thinking), is that more cost-effective?
And I whole-heartily agree that the smallest possible footprint is desired.
I'll continue investigating and send you whatever I may find.

I'll have to double check the thickness that LaserMark is available in. I know when I was talking with their rep, he steered me to the LaserMax for the 1/8 I was looking for (white on black and also black on white). I did/do use slots for the vertical cards on the Adv. Cockpt, but the issue with this is they fall out the bottom if you pick it up and move it. Hence why I was testing deep engravings to hold the cards in place. I'll most likely not have time to do anymore testing before Origins, but I'll keep you posted when I do.

kippryon
05-28-2014, 08:48
I'll have to double check the thickness that LaserMark is available in. I know when I was talking with their rep, he steered me to the LaserMax for the 1/8 I was looking for (white on black and also black on white). I did/do use slots for the vertical cards on the Adv. Cockpt, but the issue with this is they fall out the bottom if you pick it up and move it. Hence why I was testing deep engravings to hold the cards in place. I'll most likely not have time to do anymore testing before Origins, but I'll keep you posted when I do.

Keith,
Thanks much for all the info you've sent thus far - Enjoy Origins & "Sink, Burn, or Take 'er a Prize".:beer:

In summary thus far - (based upon) The research of materials such as can be used with Laser cutting/engraving, your fabulous and much anticipated 'Deluxe Cockpit', Andy's comments, etc...
I think it will boil down to 2 different types of Quarterdeck:
1. A 'Standard' version ($), which basically be a Ship Mat/Ship Log/Maneuver Card "Tray" which can accommodate/hold the aforementioned parts & pieces already supplied with, or offered for, the game (along with a couple of logos engraved for aesthetics).

2. A 'Deluxe' version ($$), which, (based upon your new Deluxe Cockpit design & Andy's thoughts) would possibly include the Ship Mat functions built-in(engraved/etched) - including slots for Special Damage chits, Sail Setting slider, etc., etc... (along with a couple of logos engraved for aesthetics). :wink:

Anyways, I'll continue to refine design and send you what I come up with via email in the Corel format.
If you have any 'inspirational' thoughts concerning same - lemme know.
Thanks again, Enjoy Origins!

Diamondback
05-28-2014, 13:15
Personally, if money were no object I'd want to buy one of these for each ship in my collection... but made out of wood, stained to pass for whatever was used in the hull of the ship it's being associated with, and then painted to match that ship.

I could do the painting and staining myself, but still think a wooden version would give a better "period feel." Plastic is easier to clean, though... just in case God forbid somebody gets seasick at the table.

Ducky
05-28-2014, 13:52
Wood be nice....

Pseudotheist
05-28-2014, 16:04
I haven't handled them myself, but it appears that the Ship's logs from wave 2 are too large for the current ships mats. You may want to verify that and adjust your dimensions accordingly before finalizing anything.

kippryon
05-28-2014, 17:19
Personally, if money were no object I'd want to buy one of these for each ship in my collection... but made out of wood, stained to pass for whatever was used in the hull of the ship it's being associated with, and then painted to match that ship.

I could do the painting and staining myself, but still think a wooden version would give a better "period feel." Plastic is easier to clean, though... just in case God forbid somebody gets seasick at the table.

You read minds quite well on Wednesday's.
Yes. Wood would be nice.
The issue may be (as Keith pointed out) that it is more prone to 'warp' than acrylic.
Sooo...I'm a thinkin' that the BASE layer acrylic, and the TOP layer wood. Whatcha' think?
In fact, my research deeper into this gives many options (even cork, veneer, etc...). The promising aspect is that most of the 'wood' products are readily available with an adhesive backing. The plus side of the acrylic for the bottom layer would be that it's sturdy & resistant to seasickness and beer.

Keep those cards & letters (and ideas) coming!

kippryon
05-28-2014, 17:20
I haven't handled them myself, but it appears that the Ship's logs from wave 2 are too large for the current ships mats. You may want to verify that and adjust your dimensions accordingly before finalizing anything.

I'll double check the measurements.
Thanks for the 'heads-up'.

Nightmoss
05-28-2014, 17:29
Kipp, have you seen Craig's plywood version on this thread. Another example of what folks are implementing as they play the game.

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?2264-Ship-Mat-Mounting-Plywood&highlight=wood+ship+log

He might have more photos in his AAR's?

kippryon
05-28-2014, 17:47
Kipp, have you seen Craig's plywood version on this thread. Another example of what folks are implementing as they play the game.

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?2264-Ship-Mat-Mounting-Plywood&highlight=wood+ship+log

He might have more photos in his AAR's?

Yes, I have. Craig did a fantastic job!
He has done the same thing I have done in the past, at about the same time.
The effort I have undertaken now is a refinement to that same solution for the problem of 'things sliding around'.
And hopefully, to do it cheaper than real wood, which is quite expensive when you want more than just a couple (i.e., mass production).

Diamondback
05-28-2014, 18:30
Sooo...I'm a thinkin' that the BASE layer acrylic, and the TOP layer wood. Whatcha' think?
That could work too, if you account for different expand/contract rates somehow--I know of many cases from the early days of model railroading where model railcars made of different mixed media (back in the early pre-plastic days, cardboard sides, metal underframe and wood roof were not uncommon), and while they were inexpensive and easy to work with using the prevailing toolsets and skillsets of the time they have generally not weathered the years well.

In fact, my research deeper into this gives many options (even cork, veneer, etc...). The promising aspect is that most of the 'wood' products are readily available with an adhesive backing. The plus side of the acrylic for the bottom layer would be that it's sturdy & resistant to seasickness and beer.
The rub is, the quality of that adhesive--is it going to stand the test of time, or delaminate within a matter of months?

fredmiracle
05-28-2014, 18:50
I haven't handled them myself, but it appears that the Ship's logs from wave 2 are too large for the current ships mats. You may want to verify that and adjust your dimensions accordingly before finalizing anything.

It seems to me that it's the same size (and, really, I think it must be or someone would have complained)

But it is cut up into 4 segments instead of 3 (at least for the British first rate). I do wonder why they did that--I would have thought the less cuts the better...

Diamondback
05-28-2014, 19:07
Fred, I think the smaller pieces would be easier to store--and to cram into a smaller box like the Swans'.

I WISH the Wave 1 logs had been in quarters instead of thirds, I could have been MUCH more efficient with my Starter Set packing. :)

The Royal Hajj
05-29-2014, 09:43
Rowmark also makes some wood colored/grained plastics and I could achive similar results as with the Deluxe Adv. Cockpits. I just will need to verify I can get it in the correct thickness. Then we would have the look of wood but the benifits of acrylic.

kippryon
05-29-2014, 10:48
Rowmark also makes some wood colored/grained plastics and I could achive similar results as with the Deluxe Adv. Cockpits. I just will need to verify I can get it in the correct thickness. Then we would have the look of wood but the benifits of acrylic.

True. I did see that as well.
I would think that the bottom layer be 1/8"- sufficient for strength & lightweight, while the top would be at least 1/4" (maybe more IF going to accommodate the Maneuver Deck).

I also saw some Cork products, which look quite good (different grains), waterproof, and the price-point was lower than some other materials.
Insofar as the adhesives, there are products specifically designed for this, but I've also toyed with the thought of screws, being that you could change out the top layer from the bottom layer (If you wanted to have several different colours of the base. Just thinkn'...

Ducky
06-02-2014, 16:33
Rowmark also makes some wood colored/grained plastics and I could achive similar results as with the Deluxe Adv. Cockpits. I just will need to verify I can get it in the correct thickness. Then we would have the look of wood but the benifits of acrylic.

That would be a nice option, good looking and durable aswell!:beer:

DeRuyter
06-03-2014, 09:31
I have noticed that the ship mats are prone to bend at the window for the ship log. I more durable solution would be most welcome.

I also noticed that the Wave 2 logs don't fit as well as the original logs.

kippryon
06-03-2014, 10:10
I have noticed that the ship mats are prone to bend at the window for the ship log. I more durable solution would be most welcome.

I also noticed that the Wave 2 logs don't fit as well as the original logs.

True on both accounts.
Plan will be to address both.