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fredmiracle
05-15-2014, 01:23
After about 10 games, I still find myself making an embarrassing blunder with my maneuvers every other game or so. Particularly when playing two cards--I haven't learned not to "oversteer" yet...

Most of these games have just been with a couple of ships on each side. But I'm curious how it would be to try to maneuver a battle line containing several ships. My few limited trials with this have not been terribly smooth. It strikes me that the differing ship speeds make it particularly difficult.

I'm wondering if anyone has tried this. Practically speaking, does it work to keep taking the sails up and down to adjust the speeds and compensate for the differences between the various ship classes? And how far apart should you space the ships in the line? I suspect I've been putting them too close together.

Any experiences or suggestions to relate?

Comte de Brueys
05-15-2014, 03:45
Until know we fought only "normal" battles, but we'll try soon a battle with two lines of 3 or 4 ships that pass each other in fighting distance.

The only way seems to me at the moment, that the movement planing will be done by the leading ship and the others follow automatically.

The closer the friendly ships in the own line are to each other, the more problems it will cause with the diferent movement decks, if you do not use the same ship type or same set sails.

But this are only the problems with a straight movement in the line. I simply have no idea to perform some usual maneuvers like turn of the line or expand it simultaneously to the left or right.



Another question: when are ships allowed to leave the line?


danger of a collission
high damage
chance to break into the enemy line
chance for raking shots
finishing off nearly wrecked enemy ships
etc...


:question:



I'm curious what the experienced Age of Sail wargamers will answer.

David Manley
05-15-2014, 08:04
Any experiences or suggestions to relate?

Yes, decided to use different rules for larger games

Nightmoss
05-15-2014, 09:59
Yes, decided to use different rules for larger games

David, were these the rules you would have used in the Battle of the Nile? I really regret the cancellation of that event from Naval Wargames Show.

DeRuyter
05-15-2014, 10:13
As David suggested there are other rules more suited to large fleet battles. However, should you wish to try SoG for a larger battle I think Sven's suggestion of the leading ship plotting the movement cards is the way to go. This is similar to the "Fire As She Bears" system. Ships follow their squadron commander until they are given a "general engagement" order. Another way to simulate fleet maneuvers would be with signals tailored to SoG, i.e.; An order to tack or wear could be given with a maneuver card number.

The problem with different speed is not as great with different SOL, however in reality captains could fine tune their speed to keep station on the ship ahead. Something that SoG (RAW) does not model.

I would like to try out a larger battle with SoG, so I'll be working on this as well.

Eric
Eric

David Manley
05-15-2014, 14:42
David, were these the rules you would have used in the Battle of the Nile? I really regret the cancellation of that event from Naval Wargames Show.

No, I was going to start with the standard rules, although we had some thoughts about allowing minor speed variations to account for individual ship speed control (something like allowing ships to move between the maximum distance as indicated by their chosen card and the maximum speed of the next lower setting)

Still planning to do this sometime, just not sure when and where :)
(thinks - we might experiment in the "overnight"sessions; a few of us will be camping out at the museum on the Saturday night and will probably be continuing the gaming sessions into the wee hours)

Пилот
05-16-2014, 02:49
...
The problem with different speed is not as great with different SOL, however in reality captains could fine tune their speed to keep station on the ship ahead. Something that SoG (RAW) does not model.

I would like to try out a larger battle with SoG, so I'll be working on this as well.

Eric
Eric

I suppose whole line should use slowest and least maneuverable cards (counting all decks involved), so whole formation would sail in the same manner.

Just crossed my mind, were there situations when frigates were used as part of the line?

Comte de Brueys
05-17-2014, 08:37
Frigates do not sail in the line with 2nd or 1st rates.

They do not have the punch & stability to resist enemy fire long enough.

Imagine an Amazon class that passes two Temeraire class ships. :erk:

Ducky
05-17-2014, 08:57
Frigates do not sail in the line with 2nd or 1st rates.

They do not have the punch & stability to resist enemy fire long enough.

Imagine an Amazon class that passes two Temeraire class ships. :erk:

That would creatie a big amount of Amazon woodsplinters :wink:

Пилот
05-17-2014, 13:19
Frigates do not sail in the line with 2nd or 1st rates.

They do not have the punch & stability to resist enemy fire long enough.

Imagine an Amazon class that passes two Temeraire class ships. :erk:
Thanks, Sven!

(I supposed so, but was interested if some strange precedent existed.)

csadn
05-17-2014, 16:41
Thanks, Sven!

(I supposed so, but was interested if some strange precedent existed.)

I think some of the battles involving the Baltic and Black Sea combatants did; but those were more "needs must" than any formal attempt to combine the two sizes.

DeRuyter
05-18-2014, 19:03
Frigates often sailed behind the line of battle and were used as signal repeaters. So you could still have them on the table, especially if you were using a signaling system.

Or have a game between 2 frigate squadrons, then they'd be in the LOB!

Devsdoc
05-18-2014, 21:38
I always start in one or more lines and think I'm good. But as the lines close it goes all wrong and end up as a blo##y mess. With lots of smaller melees of one on one or two on one. I understand braking the line. But it's my line that brakes as I brake the line. I have one or two games that just had the two fleets just sail pass by and fire the odd boardside. The games had lots of moving around to get back to the enemy. It is hard too do!
Be safe
Rory

Capn Duff
05-19-2014, 02:02
In my games the distance between ships seems to a smaller distance than I see in pictures.
Again a question for the more experienced naval gamers, when forming a LOB was there a set distance between ships?
Ie a ships length, so as to prevent collisions etc

DeRuyter
05-19-2014, 12:47
In my games the distance between ships seems to a smaller distance than I see in pictures.
Again a question for the more experienced naval gamers, when forming a LOB was there a set distance between ships?
Ie a ships length, so as to prevent collisions etc

I believe the Admiralty measured it in cable lengths (100 fathoms or 185m). I would think that the tactical circumstances and weather dictated the number of cable length apart ships were positioned. In gaming terms it depends on the rules really, and whether you use a hex based system of course. In SoG I think you want to be close enough to prevent the enemy from breaking the line which could be less than a base width apart. Also the scale of the models and bases does make the ships appear closer together.

fredmiracle
05-19-2014, 12:58
Frigates often sailed behind the line of battle and were used as signal repeaters.

In one battle account I read, the admiral stationed the the frigate line parallel to, and behind the battle line. This was described as intended to discourage attempts to break the battle line (any ship doing so would get bow-raked by the frigates), and also to plug potential gaps in the battle line. Supposedly at some point a SOL sheered off, and its place was indeed taken by a frigate (which did, I think, get beaten up pretty bad).

David Manley
05-19-2014, 13:10
200 yards was a typical interval, although history is replete with examples of the bowsprit coming over the stern of a leading ship :)
Better drilled fleets could operate with their ships in closer company

Пилот
05-20-2014, 01:52
What 200 yards is in SoG terms? About a card distance?

csadn
05-20-2014, 17:06
I suppose it's no coincidence that 200 yards is the distance across a hex (or similar unit of measure) in GDW's _Space:1889_ ship-combat rules....