Mitigating or removing player elimination

[Haukionkala]

Hello,

I got Sails of Glory recently and have been playing it a bit. It's definitely a fun game but there is one major problem I have with it in any game with more than 2 players. That is, as the title says, player elimination. If your ship surrenders early enough in the game you might have to sit on the sidelines for quite a while.

Has anyone thought of any good ideas to mitigate that effect?

My first idea was simple reinforcement ships. In that case I suppose a point system would be needed, something like 2 points for forcing an enemy SoL to surrender and 1 point for a frigate with a total of 3 or maybe 5 points needed for victory, depending on player count. Haven't had a chance to try it like that yet though. I have a nagging feeling it might be somewhat immersion-breaking but then again... Maybe not.

Does anyone have any other ideas for this?

[Ducky]

Sounds like I have to give this a try!

[7eat51]

Hi J,

I ran a game at a convention that when a person was defeated, they came back in with another ship based on what forces were on the table, i.e. what ship would would be most conducive to keeping the game going in a fun way for everyone. It is really a judgment call at the moment. My philosophy is that the funnest game is one in which everyone is engaged, so I don't want to see anyone sitting off to the side just watching for more than a turn or two.

Stop by the Welcome Aboard forum sometime and introduce yourself. Folks will be glad to meet you: http://sailsofglory.org/forumdisplay.php?5-Welcome-Aboard

[Пилот]

Or, just sit back, watch the game, have a beer/rum, loudly comment on later actions and wait for next game :beer:

[Nightbomber]

What Eric wrote is the essence of fun gaming.
Let's call it a resurrection rule (which suits more an individual game item, like a plane). Just set a game time frame, like 2-3 hours in which, when your ship is "sunk", you wait one or two turns (penalty) and then may rejoin until the time is gone. A house rule is necessary to avoid rejoining from a raking shot position :wink:

[7eat51]

fun gaming

Should there be any other kind? When a game ceases to be fun, it ceases to be a game. The most important components of any game are those around the table and their shared time together.

The mechanism you described will be the mechanism I employ at Origins. You will be with us in spirit, Andrzej. :beer:

[Nightbomber]

Thanks Eric:) I hope not only in spirit, but in a somehow material sense as well (at least during Your event) :wink: Royal Hajj knows the plot...:happy:

[7eat51]

Thanks Eric:) I hope not only in spirit, but in a somehow material sense as well (at least during Your event) :wink: Royal Hajj knows the plot...:happy:

Hmmm.

You have definitely peaked my curiosity. Now I feel like a kid before Christmas, shaking the presents in an attempt to see what is in them. I, however, will refrain from asking our fearless leader for any clues.

[David Manley]

Depends on the scenario. We often use resurrection in purely fun games. For set scenarios if you lose your ship that quickly then more fool you - observe the rest of the game and learn how to do better next time :happy:

[7eat51]

I would agree in certain settings and for certain scenarios. When running non-historical games at a convention, I do not want anyone standing around for too long without being able to play, especially since they signed up for a given time slot. Of course, this excludes any type of tournament play. Similar with WoG; someone can't help pulling a "boom" card on first draw. I think Keith, IIRC, removed boom cards at Origins last year.

Similarly, I am working through which rules to incorporate in the games at Origins. I do not want time to run out without the major objective being close to completion, i.e. I do not want players to spend a lot of time each turn, and only play for a few turns.

[Devsdoc]

This is a WAR game not Cludo. I think David is right. You could start with 2 ships each. A SOL and a frigate. Or 2 SOL. I would say that using just one Frigate each in a Frigate action is best as you have more to overlook. A SOL must just get as close to the enemy and fire, so maybe a player could use 2 or more SOL with little porblem.
Be safe
Rory

[fredmiracle]

Pretty much depends on the group, situation, players' expectations, etc. But if each player has two ships to start, then not only is an early exit less likely, but if it does happen there's the potential for another player to share one of theirs

[Haukionkala]

Thank you all for the responses! I think I will just be using a resurrection/reinforcement rule in the next game I play and see how it goes. I'll try to think of some other solutions too. One I could see would be a campaign setting where it would make sense to flee the battle when a loss would be clear to save a ship (and/or lose less points).


Or, just sit back, watch the game, have a beer/rum, loudly comment on later actions and wait for next game :beer:

That works with some adults. Not so well with some others and even less so with children or teenagers, with whom I occasionally play.

[Comte de Brueys]

Depends on the scenario. We often use resurrection in purely fun games. For set scenarios if you lose your ship that quickly then more fool you - observe the rest of the game and learn how to do better next time :happy:

I generally prefer this attitude the most.

I don't like the idea that someone take advantage of the ressurection rule like: go in - cause as much much damage as possible with this run - resurrect quickly - ... you know what I mean.

Do not mistake this. I know there are situations when you have to break into the enemy line.

That's ok but resurrection should have always a prize you have to pay.

[Berthier]

That which is sunk remains sunk, that which has died remains dead...oh hang on what about zombies?

Sorry off track... prefer reinforcement to resurrection, dont want to "spawn" ships all over the place now do we!

[7eat51]

I think it really depends upon the venue. Origins, for example, and in my humble opinion, does not have the same feel as a historical war-game convention. There are many walk-ups who are interested in learning about new games, etc. Last year, we pulled people into games that were just standing by watching. As such, it is a great venue for promoting the games. I think that WoG and SoG are games that can attract a large and diverse group of players because they are not too heavy. As such, I think allowing players to re-enter in such a venue as Origins also fits with the spirit of the game.

At Rock-Con, we had sunk/defeated players reenter at a later turn. Not only do I not remember anyone complaining about it, but I don't think anyone would have wanted someone to remain out of the game for the next hour or two.

In the end, I think it really depends upon the venue, purpose of the game, and the players assembled.

[Gunner]

Or, just sit back, watch the game, have a beer/rum, loudly comment on later actions and wait for next game :beer:

Now there's a man who knows how to enjoy a game:beer:.

[Пилот]

Well, who knows, he knows :wink:
And you don't seem ignorant, too :drinks: