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Andy Blozinski
05-05-2014, 19:25
I've got the obvious solution for a fire marker. Wool, cotton, etc. Painted and stretched. That's too easy to look good and be practical.

I've been trying to think of something for a broken mast. That's more difficult. The trick is that it needs to be with the ship & base so it moves with them and doesn't get in the way. I was thinking on maybe buying some Langton masts with the sails mostly furled and making them up to lay sideways across the hull. Ratlines and/or rigging might prevent this. My starter set ships will all have ratlines and I'm making one pirate ship that I might go off the deep end and do rigging on as well.

On a related note: I can't think of anything that would make visual sense for leak or broken rudder markers. There might be a solution for sail damage, but I think that will be challenging.

Anyone else been thinking about this?

7eat51
05-05-2014, 22:21
I agree with you that any such marker must move seamlessly with the ship, otherwise I think they would be abandoned. Like the smoke markers being used to indicate reloading, masts could be placed upon the base alongside the ship.

I like the idea of having the visual marker on the ship because players focus more attention there than to the ship logs/mats when thinking about their upcoming maneuvers and actions.

David Manley
05-05-2014, 22:24
Why not buy some of the Langton fallen mast markers? 2.50 for four.

http://rodlangton.com/napoleonic/misc.htm

Nightmoss
05-05-2014, 22:27
How about custom designed dice that has an appropriate image on one side of a six sided dice? One for fire, leaks, broken mast, broken rudder, etc. You just place the die on the ship base to represent the damage. If more than one broken mast, or also a fire, leak, etc. you add more dice. I think this could get messy or fiddly, but you would know at a glance just how bad things are by looking at the ship?

Curiously enough there's a Kickstarter Project up right now that lets you design your own dice. I expect there are businesses out there that offer the same service?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/customgamelab/custom-game-dice-you-design

David Manley
05-05-2014, 22:38
Why is there this fascination in some quarters with cluttering up tables with markers? Some of these (fire, broken masts, firing broadsides) I can understand, after all the effects they are portraying are visually obvious. But others, (floods, rudders, and over at the Aerodrome, jammed guns) aren't. There are plenty of markers and suchlike that you use on the ship/aircraft mats, why clutter the table with needless ephemera?

Пилот
05-06-2014, 01:59
Andy,

best solution would be existence of interchangeable undamaged/broken masts and undamaged/damaged sails (stuck with aerodrome glue?). But it would be difficult operation to make on ships we have. So, for now, I believe David's idea with broken mast floating next to the ship is most obtainable one. Even broken rudder could be simulated - perhaps with some transparent material marked in some conventional way to represent ship's trace. Water damage is still beyond my imagination :wink:

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David,

I agree that to much markers affects the game visually (and even that some of them may look quite strange). On the other hand, some people may have a need to make damage/other states obvious and recognizable, (which is, you will agree) very useful during the game. Only problem is what to represent with "real" and what with "artificial" marker.

For example, Bolt Action designers suggest use of pin markers (very important thing) which look like unknown soldier's grave. Personally, in this case I prefer "artificial" markers.

Ducky
05-06-2014, 04:50
I like the idea of a dice to put next to your ship with some markers on it to define special damage or even reloading and shooting!
Would be a good thing to do this with the kickstarter project indeed!

What are your thoughts

Andy Blozinski
05-06-2014, 06:04
Why not buy some of the Langton fallen mast markers? 2.50 for four.

http://rodlangton.com/napoleonic/misc.htm

Do you know of a site that has a photo or maybe could you snap me a photo if you happen to have some?

This is a miniatures game. Anything that makes it more visual is a bonus to why it exists beyond just using more efficient cardboard counters.

Ducky
05-06-2014, 06:11
9779

Cmmdre
05-06-2014, 07:36
I use Wizkids PoSM removeable masts. Not as fancy as Langtons but they work. To attach just use some string.

Devsdoc
05-06-2014, 11:00
Ducky,
I have not seen them before. Thanks, they look so good. So it is more money to spend at Rod Langton's!
Be safe
rory

David Manley
05-06-2014, 13:36
9779

they really are quite good and very useful. I've been using them with a variety of AoS games over the last 20 years (including SGN)

DeRuyter
05-06-2014, 14:20
Why is there this fascination in some quarters with cluttering up tables with markers? Some of these (fire, broken masts, firing broadsides) I can understand, after all the effects they are portraying are visually obvious. But others, (floods, rudders, and over at the Aerodrome, jammed guns) aren't. There are plenty of markers and suchlike that you use on the ship/aircraft mats, why clutter the table with needless ephemera?

+1 There are already enough chits on the ship mats to control all these effects. Keep it to the most obvious effects.

Naharaht
05-06-2014, 21:36
Are they something that Shapeways, the 3D printing company, could produce?

David Manley
05-06-2014, 22:04
Are they something that Shapeways, the 3D printing company, could produce?

Probably, if someone designed them. Unlikely though that they'd be as good or as reasonably priced as what is already available

Andy Blozinski
05-06-2014, 22:17
Cardboard counters on the ship's mats can become a blur. I'm thinking it might not be a bad idea to use the Langton markers on the edge of the ship's mats to make a very clear reminder to the controlling player and everyone else that this ship has a broken mast.

longagoigo
05-06-2014, 23:11
From LITKO.
9790

nilliom
05-07-2014, 10:51
Thanks, just ordered these from likto! :happy:

Andy Blozinski
05-07-2014, 21:40
I like the translucent flooding marker. Looks pretty neat. The broken rudder..OK, it'll work I guess. That one is just so hard to do well. Broken mast...I think the Langton markers would look better for that.

7eat51
05-08-2014, 06:42
Here's a question regarding using markers:

When does a marker go from helping the owner of the piece to providing information not readily known to an opponent?

A broken mast or guns fired makes sense to me from a visible to everyone standpoint. Additionally, guns fired is common, used in every game regardless of rules employed, and has a major impact on choosing maneuver cards, which a player does while looking at the table.

When shooting an AAR, I can see the use of all types of markers for the readers' sake.

Andy Blozinski
05-08-2014, 20:19
Here's a question regarding using markers:

When does a marker go from helping the owner of the piece to providing information not readily known to an opponent?

A broken mast or guns fired makes sense to me from a visible to everyone standpoint. Additionally, guns fired is common, used in every game regardless of rules employed, and has a major impact on choosing maneuver cards, which a player does while looking at the table.

When shooting an AAR, I can see the use of all types of markers for the readers' sake.

The way the game rules are set up, all critical damage is openly shown. Using spiffy markers isn't suddenly changing this...so..I'm not sure what your point is.

7eat51
05-08-2014, 20:28
It wasn't a point. It was a question. I am thinking through this.

Nightmoss
05-08-2014, 21:15
It wasn't a point. It was a question. I am thinking through this.

Wouldn't any marker that show's ship damage that is kept on or near the ship assist all players around the table? I could tell at a glance that my opponent is dangerously on fire and either decide to try and finish them off directly, take a chance that the fire will do it for me and so move to attacking another ship. On the flip side If I see my ally is dangerously on fire and still under attack I could conceivably move to help by drawing the enemy away?

The problem on the table might be that when too many markers come into play, they clutter up the fighting area and confuse everyone on what markers go with which ships?

Andy Blozinski
05-09-2014, 06:07
Wouldn't any marker that show's ship damage that is kept on or near the ship assist all players around the table? I could tell at a glance that my opponent is dangerously on fire and either decide to try and finish them off directly, take a chance that the fire will do it for me and so move to attacking another ship. On the flip side If I see my ally is dangerously on fire and still under attack I could conceivably move to help by drawing the enemy away?

The problem on the table might be that when too many markers come into play, they clutter up the fighting area and confuse everyone on what markers go with which ships?
We used painted and stretched out cotton stuck in the sails as a fire marker. It wasn't cluttering up the fighting area at all.

Пилот
05-10-2014, 01:27
Fire markers are necessary and, luckily, easy to make (I like "real" marker for that). Water damage markers (but they can be only "artificial", in form of some chit) could be put beside the ship, on the base. If small enough, they won't take much space. Broken mast marker ("real", also is no problem, although not home made) gives to the scenery."Guns fired" marker is both easy to make (I like "real" marker for that, too) and exist as such in the store. For Damaged Sails or Broken rudder (unfortunately, only chits for now) should be no problem. And for cluttering gaming space, well, if ship has a lot of special damage markers - all chance is that she will be removed from the play soon :salute:

bakblast
05-11-2014, 22:30
How about a toothpick or something similar, with painted aluminium foil for the sail?

Comte de Brueys
05-12-2014, 00:49
I think the ship mats have all to show the conditions of the ship.

We often need to get the miniature from the base to check fire angles (mostly in short range distance) or the attitude to the wind. An overfreighted ship base seems to be a problem for me with the movement, too.

Those extra battlefield markers are nice, but slow the game, too.

We're so busy with the game mechanics and to keep the game fluent, that we often forget to place those brilliant looking gun smoke clouds from the Anchorage Accessoires.



Like said before by others: If you want to display a broken mast, the best solution will be an exchangeable mast. To lay a marker or broken mast beside an intact ship looks not that good.

kippryon
05-12-2014, 09:28
One you put the ratlines on (if you have chosen to do so), interchangeable masts may be a moot point.

Пилот
05-12-2014, 09:54
:hmmm: True... Didn't think of that part...

Andy Blozinski
05-12-2014, 19:34
I think the ship mats have all to show the conditions of the ship.

We often need to get the miniature from the base to check fire angles (mostly in short range distance) or the attitude to the wind. An overfreighted ship base seems to be a problem for me with the movement, too.

Those extra battlefield markers are nice, but slow the game, too.

We're so busy with the game mechanics and to keep the game fluent, that we often forget to place those brilliant looking gun smoke clouds from the Anchorage Accessoires.



Like said before by others: If you want to display a broken mast, the best solution will be an exchangeable mast. To lay a marker or broken mast beside an intact ship looks not that good.

One of my other thoughts was to put fancy 3-D markers on the ship mat in the special damage area. A piece of cardboard with a logo just doesn't display the situation in an exciting manner.

Пилот
05-13-2014, 13:00
Also good thinking!

kippryon
05-13-2014, 17:18
I think everyone would concur that the 3-D (i.e., Litko) markers - on the ship mat - would be beneficial.
All players would be able to see them from across the water (playing surface) more readily.

kippryon
05-13-2014, 17:48
IF you wanted to do something 'visual' for the broken mast, I would suggest a "Sail Sock" (made of cloth, probably black in colour) - much like the 'Casualty Cap' markers we use for miniatures.
Although, I would not make them of rubber, ...and be aware of the possible 'rough' handling by non-miniature owner's at convention play.
Just a thought...

csadn
05-16-2014, 11:07
Who needs broken-mast markers when the minis themselves already come broken?

Пилот
05-18-2014, 04:19
Evil csadn strikes again! I came to that thought, too...

Andy Blozinski
05-18-2014, 08:52
Evil csadn strikes again! I came to that thought, too...

He kind of beat me to it. I was going to make a comment about how they generously saved us the money on broken mast markers by providing us with broken masts.