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Gunner
04-30-2014, 21:27
Is there anything in the wind regarding what's on the drawing board for wave 3:question:

And if you could pick a future Wave, which four classes of ships would be your choice.

Nightmoss
05-01-2014, 00:27
I suspect a couple or more of our members might have an inkling of what's in store, but may not know for certain?

I don't know ships as well as most folks here, but I'll throw out what I wouldn't mind seeing (besides the Spanish). Most of these suggestions come from reading posts here and then reading more elsewhere. I didn't go back to triremes, but an Ancients expansion would be great fun!

East Indiamen
Brigs
Bomb Vessels
Fire Ships
Sloops
Xebecs
Junks
Turtle Ships

Iron Outlaw
05-01-2014, 01:15
I'd like to see Russian Ships and also some Russian Galleys maybe, as well as those listed above.

Brad

Gunner
05-01-2014, 01:37
I wonder if Ares will use the HMS Victory mold for the Russian Ches'ma class, which is a close copy ( page 153 Russian Warships in the Age of Sail 1696-1860).
If not I'll have to buy a few extra Victory's.

Diamondback
05-01-2014, 01:46
There were also Russian knockoff Humphreys 44's based on captured HMS President, but they don't come in until the 1830s.

Personally, I'd like to see SGN stay focused on Napoleonic/1812, then launch a parallel Sails of Glory: Revolutionary Wars to cover the American and French Revolutions, even though there'd be a fair amount of commingling between the two lines. Of course, SoG: Seven Years' War flows directly into Revolutionary which in turn leads directly to Napoleonic... spin off the regional and other-time conflicts similarly as separate sub-brands, much like how the flyboys have two separate Wings of Glory lines for WWI and WWII (aside from an obvious exception of wanting to keep this game's branches as interoperable as possible).

Comte de Brueys
05-01-2014, 06:11
Anything wich is in planing for Series III has to fit for the Napoleonioc scenarios. (my opinion)



A Frech Tonnant-class would be fine.

A typical Dutch Sol.

A Spanisch Sol.

A Mortar ship sounds interesting...

medium - huge (armed) merchant vessels.



Anything smaller makes no sense in my opinion.

It's nice to manage a frigate or a SoL, but not such mirco ships, that blow up with the first salvo.

DeRuyter
05-01-2014, 12:18
There were also Russian knockoff Humphreys 44's based on captured HMS President, but they don't come in until the 1830s.

Personally, I'd like to see SGN stay focused on Napoleonic/1812, then launch a parallel Sails of Glory: Revolutionary Wars to cover the American and French Revolutions, even though there'd be a fair amount of commingling between the two lines. Of course, SoG: Seven Years' War flows directly into Revolutionary which in turn leads directly to Napoleonic... spin off the regional and other-time conflicts similarly as separate sub-brands, much like how the flyboys have two separate Wings of Glory lines for WWI and WWII (aside from an obvious exception of wanting to keep this game's branches as interoperable as possible).

Yes finish out the period. Don't we already have ships for the AWI/FR? I thought some of Wave I/II ships were launched in the 1760/1770s? Hermione comes to mind being used as Lafayette's transport to the US.

Gunner
05-01-2014, 12:35
The reason for this post was to get opinions for the next or future waves of SGN ship classes.:beer:

Coog
05-01-2014, 16:37
My choices:

British 38, Lively class frigate

US 38, Constellation / Congress frigate

British 18, Cruzier class brig-sloop

US 18, Wasp / Hornet ship-sloop

csadn
05-01-2014, 16:57
It's nice to manage a frigate or a SoL, but not such mirco ships, that blow up with the first salvo.

They won't blow up on the first hit if they're matches against equivalent-size units.

I want to see some of the Great Lakes combat units (*NOT* HMS _St. Lawrence_, damn it!); being able to re-create Put-In Bay, Plattsburgh, or even Valcour Island (a Colonial victory, tho' it took a year for anyone toe recognize the significance)....

Gunner
05-01-2014, 17:49
Those would make some well matched battles Bob. Especially using the Captain and Crew Ability Deck.

Swamprat33
05-01-2014, 18:36
Id like to see any of these:
British 64 3rd rate (Ardent/Intrepid)
British 50 4th rate (Portland)
British 38 5th rate (Lively/Leda)
East Indiaman
French Corvette

Cheers
Tim

Diamondback
05-01-2014, 18:52
Yes finish out the period. Don't we already have ships for the AWI/FR? I thought some of Wave I/II ships were launched in the 1760/1770s? Hermione comes to mind being used as Lafayette's transport to the US.
Remember, unless sunk or destroyed by accident, a 50+-year service life was not uncommon for a Ship of the Line. So it's not inconceivable that you'd see a ship built for the Seven Years' War fighting in the American Revolutionary, then the French Revolutionary, and finally ending its days while fighting in the Napoleonic Wars. Remember, HMS Bellona's basic design was still being built with minor refinements over 20, perhaps even 25, years later... and the French were still building modernized versions of the basic 1782 Temeraire design, modified to a sail/steam hybrid, as late as the 1840s IIRC. 1767 Swan is the oddball, but I seem to recall there were a handful that hung on into early in the Napoleonic Wars.

CMacC
05-17-2014, 00:22
I completely agree about the Ardent class. I can't believe there hasn't been more of a push specifically for the HMS Indefatigable(1794).

Comte de Brueys
05-17-2014, 09:16
(*NOT* HMS _St. Lawrence_, damn it!)

I had a look on this ship's story.

Nice. :wink:

Sounds like the most perfect job.

A sweetwater lake captain of the one and only 1st rate there. :cheezy:

Пилот
05-17-2014, 14:08
I suspect a couple or more of our members might have an inkling of what's in store, but may not know for certain?

I don't know ships as well as most folks here, but I'll throw out what I wouldn't mind seeing (besides the Spanish). Most of these suggestions come from reading posts here and then reading more elsewhere. I didn't go back to triremes, but an Ancients expansion would be great fun!

East Indiamen
Brigs
Bomb Vessels
Fire Ships
Sloops
Xebecs
Junks
Turtle Ships
I agree with this! OK, maybe not as Wave 3, but Wave 4 for sure.

Gunner
05-17-2014, 16:22
1. HMS Agamemnon 64-gun. So many battles.
2. Tonnant class 80 gun. French or English.
3. Light merchantman. Need booty for the Queen, King, Pasha, or me!
4. Spanish 74. Neglected too long.

CMacC
05-17-2014, 21:04
As near and dear to my heart as War of 1812 Great Lakes battles and their ships are, I'd much rather see ships that actually saw action first. There are plenty Battle of Trafalgar, Glorious 1st of June, etc. ships that haven't been made yet could be made before getting into Great Lakes warships. If we have to go with American ships, the "original six frigates" offer more options without adding more ship sculpts.

IMHO, of course.

csadn
05-18-2014, 16:33
As near and dear to my heart as War of 1812 Great Lakes battles and their ships are, I'd much rather see ships that actually saw action first. There are plenty Battle of Trafalgar, Glorious 1st of June, etc. ships that haven't been made yet could be made before getting into Great Lakes warships. If we have to go with American ships, the "original six frigates" offer more options without adding more ship sculpts.

Couple problems with this:

1) Most of the "big war" European ships can be represented with resprays of one model -- Diamondback has a list of them somewhere -- so we run into the same problem as with WW1 Entente or WW2 Axis fighters: How many different repaints of one model can Ares sell?

2) Of the US "big six", only two of them saw more than one battle (_Constitution_, _Constellation_), and one never saw *any* significant action (_Congress_). So they're not much more useful than the GL ships.

Capn Duff
05-18-2014, 18:15
For me
Tonnant class French
Neptune class Brit
Spanish Sol and Frigate

Diamondback
05-19-2014, 15:04
1) Most of the "big war" European ships can be represented with resprays of one model -- Diamondback has a list of them somewhere -- so we run into the same problem as with WW1 Entente or WW2 Axis fighters: How many different repaints of one model can Ares sell?

Chris raises a point--do a search on my username for a group of threads titled "Stretching Sculpts", and you can see some discussion about that.

As for reprints of existing sculpts identified so far...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Avt7MLKsRNqhdGdfR1MwQjRxS2x1UmZXOW1qYlNzUmc&usp=drive_web#gid=0

HMS Lydia
06-07-2014, 13:48
I was looking for the streching scults thread and couldn't find it. The link above on the reprints doesn't work on my job PC I'll have to try it at home.

Diamondback
06-07-2014, 14:02
Bob, here's the series so far, by Ares SKU...
SGN101 French 12-pounder 32's: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?2114-Stretching-Sculpts-1777-Concorde-class-12-lb-32-gun-frigates
SGN102 Temeraire 74's: [no thread yet]
SGN103 British 12-pounder 32's: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?2132-Stretching-Sculpts-SGN103-1773-Amazon-12-pounder-32-s&p=28107#post28107
SGN104 British Slade Common 74's: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?2121-Stretching-Sculpts-SGN104-1760-Slade-Common-74-s
SGN105 French 18-pounder 38/40's: [no thread yet]
SGN106 French 118/120's: [no thread yet]
SGN107 British 14 ship-sloops: [no thread yet]
SGN108/201 British First Rates: [no thread yet]

And I'm not at liberty to say much beyond this, but I've been asked to look into a few things for the next couple waves that a lot of folks here will find REALLY exciting. If Wave 3 looks anything like what the ships I've been asked about lead me to believe it probably will, I doubt very many here will be disappointed. :D

csadn
06-07-2014, 16:13
If Wave 3 looks anything like what the ships I've been asked about lead me to believe it probably will, I doubt very many here will be disappointed. :D

That's assuming the company survives the number of free ships it's going to have to give away as part of the Great Wave 2 Clusterf***.

fredmiracle
06-07-2014, 16:32
That's assuming the company survives the number of free ships it's going to have to give away as part of the Great Wave 2 Clusterf***.

Galaxy Quest will cover it :wink:

Iron Outlaw
06-07-2014, 21:32
Galaxy Quest? I Googled it and only came up with the movie.

Coog
06-07-2014, 21:40
Galaxy Quest? I Googled it and only came up with the movie.

I think he meant Galaxy Defenders.

Original game Kickstarter:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1402889231/galaxy-defenders-co-op-sci-fi-miniature-board-game


Current Kickstarter for expansions:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1402889231/galaxy-defenders-the-earth-strikes-back-boardgame?ref=discovery

fredmiracle
06-07-2014, 21:45
I think he meant Galaxy Defenders.

Whatever it's called, I'm sure we can count on those scifi fans to subsidize some broken masts. :-)

derflatermaus
06-07-2014, 22:14
I'd like to see more American ships, so I guess that means a lot of Frigates.

Diamondback
06-07-2014, 22:20
And the Wing-nuts... :p Can't forget the Tolkienites with War of the Ring either. LOL

Coog
06-07-2014, 22:21
I'd like to see more American ships, so I guess that means a lot of Frigates.

I will be very disappointed if we don't.

7eat51
06-07-2014, 22:28
Can't forget the Tolkienites

Of which I am proud to be.

As for War of the Ring - a pretty good game, especially given the shoes to fill.

I looked at Galaxy Defenders given our group's enjoyment of coops, but didn't grab it the first time around. Can't quite bring myself to do so this time either, but there is still time for the current KS. KS is a dangerous site to frequent. :wink:

Back to the thread, I understand the desire to fill out Napoleonics, but I think a round of U.S. ships would go a long way to capturing new players this side of the pond, especially folks not accustomed to AoS games.

Diamondback
06-07-2014, 23:44
I'd consider War of 1812 a part of the core Napoleonic line--it's not like the Royal Navy ordered ships to unique designs for North American assignments and only deployed them here... anything that saw action Over Here also had sisters see action Over There.

7eat51
06-07-2014, 23:56
I'd consider War of 1812 a part of the core Napoleonic line--it's not like the Royal Navy ordered ships to unique designs for North American assignments and only deployed them here... anything that saw action Over Here also had sisters see action Over There.

I should have been clearer - American vs. more French ships.

Coog
06-08-2014, 00:54
I should have been clearer - American vs. more French ships.

A "what if" expanded Quasi War.

csadn
06-08-2014, 17:17
I'd consider War of 1812 a part of the core Napoleonic line--it's not like the Royal Navy ordered ships to unique designs for North American assignments and only deployed them here... anything that saw action Over Here also had sisters see action Over There.

Not quite -- the Great Lakes battles consisted of a whole bunch of one-offs or very-small-runs.

Of course, I say that, and I immediately think: "Great Lakes Battle Pack -- one box containing all the ships required to fight Put-In Bay, or Plattsburgh (or perhaps one of each)"....

Diamondback
06-08-2014, 17:26
Right, Chris, I was mainly talking the few battles on the high seas. :)

fredmiracle
06-08-2014, 19:46
Not quite -- the Great Lakes battles consisted of a whole bunch of one-offs or very-small-runs.

Of course, I say that, and I immediately think: "Great Lakes Battle Pack -- one box containing all the ships required to fight Put-In Bay, or Plattsburgh (or perhaps one of each)"....

In general terms, how do these ships compare with the Swan class sloops? I.e. similar size/guns/sailing characteristics?

Coog
06-08-2014, 20:49
They don't match up very well. There is no uniformity to the ships or their armament. I recommend you get the following book. It provides quite a bit of information on the war on the lakes.

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?543-The-Naval-War-of-1812

Diamondback
06-08-2014, 21:06
Let's put it this way: EVERY ship of the Great Lakes Navy, and virtually every ship from the Revolution to the end of American fighting sail, was a one-off. By Navy standards of the time, a group of three to the same design was "mass production"...

fredmiracle
06-08-2014, 21:32
I think hoping for a slew of one-off sculpts (and of ships with questionable combat value in SoG terms to boot) is pie-in-the-sky. Outside of a tiny handful of iconic ships (many of which, themselves, have possible reprints) Ares clearly seems focused on common, standard type ships with serious reprint potential. And this is a pretty comprehensible attitude for a mass market, manufactured product like this.

scanning what Wiki says about Put-in-Bay, the larger ships "eyeball" similar to Swan in terms of general stats and combat capability, i.e. ~400-500 tons, 15-20 guns. Maybe just a touch better than Swan, but not that different. I'm sure they looked different and maybe had different rig, and there is the unresolved question of carronades--but still, they would probably end up with similar stats to Swan in SoG.

And then there are the smaller ships. Really, in SoG terms, what stats would a 90 ton ship with 2 guns have? not a whole lot more than zero guns and zero hull boxes...

If I were hoping to replay such battles, it seems that the most reasonable thing to push for (and at that unlikely) would be to request that Ares make one or two tiny sloops or schooners. Then you could use these to stand in for all ships of similar size and capabilities, and add some of the Swan sloops for the larger ones (or, let's say, Cruizers if/when they come out, which might be a better match for size and gunnery?), and you'd at least start getting into the ballpark...

David Manley
06-08-2014, 23:48
If you want to do Great Lakes games then the statting range for SGN is totally inappropriate. It would need a special edition of the rules to make it worthwhile.

csadn
06-09-2014, 15:10
Really, in SoG terms, what stats would a 90 ton ship with 2 guns have? not a whole lot more than zero guns and zero hull boxes...

A thought, borrowed from the "HeroClix" _Crimson Skies_ game: Render the gunboats as tokens only -- they inflict 1 chit draw, and have 1 HP. They are, in the literal sense, "Token" fighting units.... :)

Diamondback
06-09-2014, 15:42
A thought, borrowed from the "HeroClix" _Crimson Skies_ game: Render the gunboats as tokens only -- they inflict 1 chit draw, and have 1 HP. They are, in the literal sense, "Token" fighting units.... :)
Or handle them the way War at Sea did: group say 2 to 4 together on a tiddlywink, and pool their attack stats. Then again, I'm not sure a 90-tonner would be big enough to rate a 3-d model even ON a tiddlywink... designing masts for a vessel that small is the stuff of engineering nightmares.

AirborneEnginee
06-10-2014, 12:22
If you want to do Great Lakes games then the statting range for SGN is totally inappropriate. It would need a special edition of the rules to make it worthwhile.

Yeah I think this would work best as a fan retooling. The scale and stats would need completely redone. With lake frigates with stats like a first rate and then working downward to small gunboats. I know there are 1/300 paper models of the ships and there may be some lead or resin minis that would work.

David Manley
06-10-2014, 12:39
As it happens I'm doing this using "Form Line of Battle" right now for our local club. Essentially keeping the movement system as is, but recasting the stat range so that the biggest ship in the campaign (a 32 gun frigate) has gunnery stats broadly the same as a 1st rate, sloops are similar to 3rd rates, cutters similar to 6th etc. The numbers aren't straight swaps, they need some tailoring, but the effect seems to be going down very well with the players.

fredmiracle
06-10-2014, 12:58
Then again, I'm not sure a 90-tonner would be big enough to rate a 3-d model even ON a tiddlywink... designing masts for a vessel that small is the stuff of engineering nightmares.

I do have the sense that the Swan sloops tested the lower bounds of their current design/manufacturing approach. The sails and spars start to look more clunky when scaled down to that level, and I'm not sure they'd be presentable on a ship 4 times smaller again

David Manley
06-10-2014, 13:01
For that kind of thing I'd suggest Rod Langton's fine range of Great Lakes models

DeRuyter
06-12-2014, 12:02
For that kind of thing I'd suggest Rod Langton's fine range of Great Lakes models

+1 They are nice. If you like paper models War Artisan has a Great Lakes range in 1/300. www.warartisan.com

The 15mm lake ships from Thoroughbred (Sea Eagles) are great for more detailed model building and need a large playing surface.

Diamondback
06-12-2014, 14:26
I do have the sense that the Swan sloops tested the lower bounds of their current design/manufacturing approach. The sails and spars start to look more clunky when scaled down to that level, and I'm not sure they'd be presentable on a ship 4 times smaller again
So maybe the answer there is to replace the mast/spar-sail assembly with a clear plastic "sheet" printed with mast/spar/sail artwork like on an old WK Pirates ship. Or just a bare mast with no sails or spars...

SWO_Daddy
06-30-2014, 23:48
1. HMS Agamemnon 64-gun. So many battles.
2. Tonnant class 80 gun. French or English.
3. Light merchantman. Need booty for the Queen, King, Pasha, or me!
4. Spanish 74. Neglected too long.

I really like this list...only ship I'd add to my top "want" list would be HMS Indefatigable after she was razéed in 1794 into a very powerful Frigate. Would love to be able to play this famous ship in Sails of Glory.

7eat51
06-30-2014, 23:55
Hi Jeremy,

Stop by the Welcome Aboard forum and introduce yourself sometime. Folks will be glad to meet you.

Gunner
07-01-2014, 00:19
Welcome:beer: from Arizona, Jeremy.
What part of California are you from?

SWO_Daddy
07-01-2014, 00:25
Welcome:beer: from Arizona, Jeremy.
What part of California are you from?

Living in San Diego at the moment.