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Gargantulance
04-09-2014, 01:56
Greetings All,

Just a quick perusal of the topics listed so far makes me think I'm "safe" (somewhat) for asking this basic question.

What blocks fire?

The photo examples in the rules (basic section) only show two ships, one firing at another and showing which broadside is used. My question refers to a many ship situation, say 4 per side.
If, somehow a British ship has a ship in EACH broadside on Port, the British Captain would have his choice on which opponent is receiving the British Blessings. Here are the questions:

Does the ship in the full broadside arc block shots for the front or rear broadside? Is this determined by utilizing the edge of arc in question with our nifty rulers? (bit of an issue with pre-measuring crops up, here)

Does a ship anywhere in a specific arc block fire to any other part of the arc? Can the guns of the Port front arc (for example) all pivot to shoot down the far left line of arc and avoid any friendly which is partially in the arc?

The way the rules appear to be written, it seems to me (enough qualifiers? lol) if there is a friendly ship in the Left side of any firing arc, one can still fire to the Right side. Am I reading the rule(s) correctly? Because that just doesn't seem right to me… firing the Port side front arc is firing more than 1 piece of artillery and I suspect the horizontal angle each piece can pivot/swivel/turn is limited by the tiny picture window they're projecting out… (ok, not a nautical expert here…). Certainly ships could have been redesigned with Gable windows, but the only people who would have profited from that would have been glaziers! (ok, it is a bit late for me… sorry)

Admittedly, most of my miniature gaming is land based (Napoleonic, ACW, Thirty Years War) and I'm still thinking like a landlubber. However, the concept of things in my firing arc "should" block fire is one of those ingrained concepts.

Oh, yes, one other question. Does special damage apply in collisions?

Thank you, everyone for your replies. Please forgive the neophyte/newbie questions.

Gargantulance

The Royal Hajj
04-09-2014, 06:57
If you can draw a straight line from the firing dot to the target ship within a firing arc, you can shoot at it with all guns of that arc. So if a friendly was covering half of a firing arc and the other half was covered by an enemy ship, you could fire on the enemy. If the friendly was taking up 2/3s of the arc, you could still fire on the enemy ship.

Firing solutions in this game are very simple and some what abstract... which is a good thing for this style of game. Keep in mind that for game purposes shooting happens after each move, but in real life firing would be happening anywhere alone the path the ship moved and the guns could fire one at a time as they bear on their target. The simple and abstract nature of the firing rules take all of that into account.

Gargantulance
04-09-2014, 10:12
Thank you VERY much, Keith! Reminding me there is an actual amount of time elapsing and guns can fire in sequence helps me get a handle on this firing concept.

Grazie!

Lance

nilliom
04-09-2014, 11:20
If you can draw a straight line from the firing dot to the target ship within a firing arc, you can shoot at it with all guns of that arc. So if a friendly was covering half of a firing arc and the other half was covered by an enemy ship, you could fire on the enemy. If the friendly was taking up 2/3s of the arc, you could still fire on the enemy ship.

Firing solutions in this game are very simple and some what abstract... which is a good thing for this style of game. Keep in mind that for game purposes shooting happens after each move, but in real life firing would be happening anywhere alone the path the ship moved and the guns could fire one at a time as they bear on their target. The simple and abstract nature of the firing rules take all of that into account.


That would be, unless you are using the optional rule forced aim, p.36, I imagine?

The Royal Hajj
04-09-2014, 11:25
That would be correct. Optional rules when used, supersede the standard rules.

Although, I could easily see this house ruled to apply only to shooting the closest enemy. Captains and gunners would be smart enough to still fire on an enemy as they bear, even if a friendly ship is close and would come into line of site during that time span.

Gunner
04-09-2014, 11:33
Keith, is the more than half a target beyond a friendly ship in the rulebook anywhere (I can't find it), or is that a house rule? I understand the ships always moving concept but can't find it explained in the rules.

Never mind, I see you called it a house rule.


If you can draw a straight line from the firing dot to the target ship within a firing arc, you can shoot at it with all guns of that arc. So if a friendly was covering half of a firing arc and the other half was covered by an enemy ship, you could fire on the enemy. If the friendly was taking up 2/3s of the arc, you could still fire on the enemy ship.

Firing solutions in this game are very simple and some what abstract... which is a good thing for this style of game. Keep in mind that for game purposes shooting happens after each move, but in real life firing would be happening anywhere alone the path the ship moved and the guns could fire one at a time as they bear on their target. The simple and abstract nature of the firing rules take all of that into account.

David Manley
04-09-2014, 12:13
That would be correct. Optional rules when used, supersede the standard rules.

Although, I could easily see this house ruled to apply only to shooting the closest enemy. Captains and gunners would be smart enough to still fire on an enemy as they bear, even if a friendly ship is close and would come into line of site during that time span.

Chaps, the "forced aim" rule was specifically written to prevent fire at an enemy ship if a friendly ship was in the same firing arc. The primary reason for this being to prevent "threading the needle" shots where a ship can theoretically draw a line of sight to a target through a small gap between friendlies.

re Keith's last line, actually captains would be smart enough to hold fire when there was a risk of hitting friendlies, which is the other reason for the rule - it mimics the realities of AoS combat. In other AoS rules that I've played it is not an optional rule, but a standard one.

The Royal Hajj
04-09-2014, 12:25
I guess it could go either way David. While it could remove the threading the needle shots, it also means that if the very corner of a friendly is in the arc, you can not shoot at an enemy that if full in the same arc.

I will clarify that my house rule comment was not intended to thread teh needle, but allow reasonable shots to be taken when they where there. But there is always the rules lawyers to think about. lol

DeRuyter
04-09-2014, 14:54
Greetings All,


Oh, yes, one other question. Does special damage apply in collisions?

Thank you, everyone for your replies. Please forgive the neophyte/newbie questions.

Gargantulance

The short answer is there is nothing in the rules excluding special damage effects in collisions.

The practical answer is to just throw out the collision rule entirely!

The resultant damage can be too harsh and it only applies to friendly collisions anyway. A number of people use some form of house rule for collisions. I only apply "C" damage if a ship collided on full sails, and of course check for entanglement/boarding as well. Next turn the ships will start out at backing sails speed, if not entangled.

Diamondback
04-10-2014, 02:22
I guess it could go either way David. While it could remove the threading the needle shots, it also means that if the very corner of a friendly is in the arc, you can not shoot at an enemy that if full in the same arc.

I will clarify that my house rule comment was not intended to thread teh needle, but allow reasonable shots to be taken when they where there. But there is always the rules lawyers to think about. lol
And there's a practical solution to this too... if the friendly ship's center mast (or alternate, center of base) is within the fire-arc, the shot is blocked; if not, it's not. Simple and straightforward.

Nightmoss
08-27-2014, 20:01
Someone on Board Game Geek has just posted this question:


When checking range, is the same measurement used to check the firing arc and line of site also used for the range? To put the question another way, if the line of site was blocked in part of a firing arc but not all of it, can the blocked area still be used for checking range?

I suspect they have a situation where a potential B Range broadside is blocked, but the A Range broadside is not? I don't know that for certain, so I'm throwing the question out here while I see if that's the case.

fredmiracle
08-27-2014, 21:10
Someone on Board Game Geek has just posted this question:



I suspect they have a situation where a potential B Range broadside is blocked, but the A Range broadside is not? I don't know that for certain, so I'm throwing the question out here while I see if that's the case.

I think you have to measure range from the unblocked arc. Reason being, in the rules, it says if you have a full broadside at A and a partial at B range, you have to take one or the other, not combine to get the best of both. It's pretty analogous to this situation...

Nightmoss
08-27-2014, 21:29
I think you have to measure range from the unblocked arc. Reason being, in the rules, it says if you have a full broadside at A and a partial at B range, you have to take one or the other, not combine to get the best of both. It's pretty analogous to this situation...

Thanks Fred. That would be my call as well. They've not responded as yet, but this is the answer I'll give them if their situation is what I'm guessing.