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KeithS
02-28-2014, 05:42
A discussion on the forum about Merchants and Marauders prompted me to buy the game, this led me by an indirect route to e-raptor game accessories (http://e-raptor.pl/) who make a holder for the M&M play mat.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wyd-tAw5Q6k

While they don't do anything directly for SoG at present it struck me that something similar to hold the ship mats would be an excellent idea and I wondered if it would be worth contacting them and suggesting that they consider producing one. Alternatively Anchorage might consider producing something similar, or at least working with the company to market them in the US if they were willing to make one.

They also make self assembly laser cut boxes for game pieces and while the current sizes probably wouldn't work for storing the SoG ships they might be able to adjust the sizing to produce a suitable box.

9173

Finally they make a number of types of card feeders, which may be of use in keep ship cards and other card decks in order.

9174

Of course, if Anchorage have something in the pipeline to produce anything similar to anything above I will hold off contacting e-raptor as I don't want to tread on any toes.

The Royal Hajj
02-28-2014, 06:53
Hey Keith, these are some pretty need products. That first one I think I could do, but not sure how well it would go over price wise. With a large sheet of birch and a large sheet of acrylic, they could be on the expensive side. But it is a cool concept and I might have to play with it some.

I'm already working on a nice wooden box to hold the maneuver deck and all the counters needed to sail a ship. Making larger boxes to hold the ships as well would not be too difficult.

KeithS
02-28-2014, 07:12
OK I'll hold off getting in touch with them until you have decided whether or not it would be feasible for you to produce anything. Price wise the MM trays sell in the UK for £8 ($12-13) not cheap but given that most people won't need many isn't prohibitive IMHO, of course costs for you to make something might be different. I can't speak for others but one of the major problems that I have when playing SoG (or most other games come to that) is the physical admin of keeping card decks and chits under control, so I would be willing to invest in anything that effectively helps with this aspect. Good look in playing with the ideas.:thumbsup:

The Royal Hajj
02-28-2014, 07:18
I've already been working on a "Quarterdeck" design. It will be similar to my cockpits for Wings of Glory, but of course designed to best serve SGN and all it's counters.

http://www.aerodromeaccessories.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/a/d/advcockpit-5.jpg

http://www.aerodromeaccessories.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/o/rotarycockpit1.jpg

KeithS
02-28-2014, 07:37
That's interesting, will it be designed to replace the ship mats or handle the other components (or both)? Chits waiting to be selected aren't too much of a problem as they are safely in bags but chits on the mats need to be handled carefully. The worst problem I had was making sure that I was selecting and replacing cards in the right decks when trying to control two ships at once, as I was constantly getting them mixed up. If you can produce something that helps with this it would be a must for me.

The Royal Hajj
02-28-2014, 08:57
My line of thought right now is an accessory that replaces the ship mat (but not the ship log) and handles the counters in better way.

Пилот
03-01-2014, 02:15
Keith,
what do you think about making ship mat in delta-profile form? It would be nice contribution to save space on the table.

Here's the sketch, with two variations):
9203

First would be better for cardboard ones, an other for ones made from wood or plastic.

I mentioned this elsewhere, but maybe it's OK to repeat it here.

Capn Duff
03-01-2014, 04:37
Keith,
what do you think about making ship mat in delta-profile form? It would be nice contribution to save space on the table.

Here's the sketch, with two variations):
9203

First would be better for cardboard ones, an other for ones made from wood or plastic.

I mentioned this elsewhere, but maybe it's OK to repeat it here.

Where would the counters go ?

Пилот
03-01-2014, 17:14
On the bars, this is side view.

John Paul
03-01-2014, 18:38
As a way to aid in keeping the cards separated for each ship, and help keep them neatly in an accessible location I picked up some business card holders from Office Max. They're a little bit wider then the card deck at 4 inches, but will hold an entire deck easily even if the whole deck is in sleeve protectors! They're a $1.59 in store, or $.99 if purchased online, and come in clear or black plastic. Link: http://www.officemax.com/ Search for business Card Holders.

Berthier
03-01-2014, 22:10
As per Paul's posting I was thinking about his ideas of business card holders and thought that they could be used for storage of decks as well.
http://media.officeworks.com.au/ims_docs/4A/4A1DB28FF0200499E1008000AC193D36.JPG
These are from an Australian store but I am sure they're available anywhere and sizing looks good.
http://www.officeworks.com.au/retail/products/Office-Supplies/Business-Card-Holders-and-Cases/Business-Card-Holders/JP700027

7eat51
03-02-2014, 14:03
As a way to aid in keeping the cards separated for each ship ...

Have you used these in game play yet? They look like an inexpensive fix.

One thing I picked up from Keith at Origins last year is to mark the back of each deck with a symbol; it makes collecting the cards and doing a quick check after a game quite easy, as well as helping keep decks separate during play. With all of my WoG decks, I placed TA1 on the back of one A maneuver deck, TA2 on the back of another A maneuver deck, etc. I have a sheet with the amount of cards in each maneuver deck, so figuring out if I have all the cards is a pretty quick process.

John Paul
03-02-2014, 21:36
Have you used these in game play yet? They look like an inexpensive fix.

One thing I picked up from Keith at Origins last year is to mark the back of each deck with a symbol; it makes collecting the cards and doing a quick check after a game quite easy, as well as helping keep decks separate during play. With all of my WoG decks, I placed TA1 on the back of one A maneuver deck, TA2 on the back of another A maneuver deck, etc. I have a sheet with the amount of cards in each maneuver deck, so figuring out if I have all the cards is a pretty quick process.

Yes, I have used these in a couple of games so far. The feedback from the players was ALL very positive!

I came up with the idea after the first couple of demo games, when I discovered players running multiple ships kept getting confused which deck went to which ship. I was sitting at my desk trying to figure out how to keep the card decks organized and readily available to the players when I noticed the business card holder right there on the desk in front of me!! :smack: It's one I keep all the business cards in that I pick up everywhere! So next day I went to Office Max and looked around to see what would work. It had to be large enough to hold a full deck of cards, a low profile so it isn't easily tipped over, and one that allowed a player to easily pick the deck up without a lot of fumbling around. I picked out one each of the black and clear plastic ones, and test fitted the deck of cards I took with me to the store. I found them to be just what I had in mind, so I went online and ordered a few more of each and realized I also saved sixty cents each!! They work really well and help keep cards from getting misplaced all over the table, or cards getting misplaced in the wrong deck.

As for marking the back of the decks I guess that works well also. Although as the decks are already numbered and marked with the appropriate deck letter it's easy to put the decks back in order after the game is over! Still any additional markings does make keeping all the decks in order an easier proposition, especially if you're running large, or mutable games!! :thumbsup:

The Royal Hajj
03-03-2014, 07:09
As for marking the back of the decks I guess that works well also. Although as the decks are already numbered and marked with the appropriate deck letter it's easy to put the decks back in order after the game is over! Still any additional markings does make keeping all the decks in order an easier proposition, especially if you're running large, or mutable games!! :thumbsup:

When you have 2+ A decks out on the table at the same time, it's very easy for cards to move from one deck to the other. With just the printed markings, you would need to ensure that each deck had every single number and no duplicates. If you mark the backs, you only need to sort though the back of the cards... no checking numbers and it's much easier to read then those tiny little numbers in the corners ;) If you use deck protectors, you can just mark those... or use different colored backs.

longagoigo
03-03-2014, 07:26
Unless you have lots of disorganized players with little space, I don't see the problem. One deck to the left of the ship mat, the other to the right of the other, easy enough. Besides, there are two of each maneuver card, which are clearly numbered and easily identified, so why mark them up more?

Diamondback
03-03-2014, 08:30
The worry about a vertical mat with chits on bars is, gamers can frequently be clumsy and jostle tables--whether accidental or "accidental" is outside the scope of this discussion, the fact is either way tables get bumped and stuff gets scrambled.

I was starting to pencil out ideas for a kind of "lunch tray" mat replacement, with a separate compartment in each area where chits go on the stock mat and similar layout.

7eat51
03-03-2014, 18:12
Thanks, Paul. I noticed similar things, even when players were only playing one ship. They set cards down, get confused which deck is theirs, etc. I wondered if players had the discipline to put cards back into the holders. Your experience and feedback are promising.


so why mark them up more?

Ease of identifying complete decks. I have been to scrambles where different people supplied decks, only to ask if someone has an extra card of some type because one is missing. When I play solo, running multiple planes, it helps keep the decks organized during the game, especially when using several of the same maneuver decks. A little mark on the back of the card is pretty unobtrusive, especially given the benefit obtained.

John Paul
03-03-2014, 20:23
Thus far with an average of 4 players per game they've been very disciplined to keep the cards in the holders after selecting their maneuver card. So far it's worked out as I had hoped it would! I place the card holder at the top of the Ship Mat to keep it readily accessible, and the low profile helps keep them from getting knocked over! It's definitely been a :thumbsup:

If marking the back of each deck helps keep things organized, and the game moving along without breaking to sort out card decks every couple of turns, or more I say if it works it's a good idea!!