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fredmiracle
01-19-2014, 09:51
On another board (I think) someone had posted that of all the ship types, only one of the frigate classes could tack. I take it that he meant that it could turn through the "aback" zone on one maneuver. Anyway it struck me as odd.

Now that more people have it in hand,

1) can someone confirm that all ships can tack--i.e. by turning into the wind, being taken aback, but then coming out on the other side by planning the right maneuver, which converts into the right red card? I'm sure this must be so.

2) is it true that one frigate, but not the other, can turn through without going aback? If so, is that right? Is it a huge advantage?

SeaRoyal20
01-19-2014, 12:57
Great question. I would also ask how much worse does this get as the ships get bigger?

Wartrain
01-20-2014, 01:39
I've found that all the ships can tack using the standard and advanced rules. A SoL will use the 1 hour glass sharp turn arrow on the red card, but if your close to the wind you will just squeeze buy.

The Royal Hajj
01-20-2014, 09:07
It all depends on your attitude to the wind. Some times the frigates don't need to tack (they can simply play a turn maneuver that brings them completely past the red portion on their ship card) and other times they will be hit with both taken aback cards when trying to do so.

SoLs can make a single taken aback card tack, but it's a much harder affair to pull off and you will most likely have to set it up a couple of cards in advance.

Beowulf03809
01-20-2014, 09:54
This is my first AoS game and though I understand the concept of real sailing 'fair' (I was actually starting to take lessons earlier in life), I don't yet have it down in relation to picking the right Normal and Red cards over 2-3 turns to pull off a proper tack. In my first game yesterday I tried and round myself crippled by being on the edge of the Red again with only one valid way to turn while my opponent (my 10yr old son) had great position and was swinging around for a second racking shot at close range.

In time it will become more intuitive but I am worried my younger players will become frustrated over this aspect of the game. We understand that wind is a major component of an AoS game, but for younger players having an external (invisible!) force that can potentially impact your success in a game can be difficult.

I liked the diagrams being worked out to help demonstrate collision examples. I wonder if someone with "uber skillz at the helm" can put together some very basic Sailing for Dummies pics for a Frigate and SoL. Sort of a guide that shows for each of these two class of ship what maneuver cards would let you execute a transition through a couple different wind situations. Nothing too fancy but I would think, for example, that if you're coming into the Red at your 11 o'clock position but need to port a certain pattern of cards would work to get you where you need to go.

Does this make sense?

:rum:

AlyssaFaden
01-20-2014, 12:31
My interpretation of the post in question was that only one frigate was capable of tacking ACROSS the wind in one maneuver without ever being taken aback.= (same as you fredmiracle). But also that circumstances had to be PERFECT for it (just the right angle to the wind prior to the next card being played). All ships can do the aback version of the tack (I did it with an SoL this last weekend and it was a beautiful thing to witness, esp. as she then lined up for a full broadside at closerange after the maneuver was finished). I haven't looked at the other frigates to see if any of the others could do it.

GrouperKicker
01-30-2014, 12:18
I liked the diagrams being worked out to help demonstrate collision examples. I wonder if someone with "uber skillz at the helm" can put together some very basic Sailing for Dummies pics for a Frigate and SoL. Sort of a guide that shows for each of these two class of ship what maneuver cards would let you execute a transition through a couple different wind situations. Nothing too fancy but I would think, for example, that if you're coming into the Red at your 11 o'clock position but need to port a certain pattern of cards would work to get you where you need to go.
:rum:

Seconded!! I played my first game with my son and the game ended up being a 'three point turn fest' with a significant amount of red cards being played. We are both new to AoS games and I'd love to see some of examples proper sailing skills.

7eat51
01-30-2014, 12:48
When playing with complete newbies or even the very young, it might be worth exploring playing a game to two without wind, just so they can get used to the real basics, like not playing with altitude in WoG. Then once a few games are under the belt, add wind without change, etc. If one can move a new/young player into a fuller set of rules, then one won the war by giving up an early battle, if that makes sense.

As far as sailing knowledge, mine is pretty embryonic, but I am willing to put together such helps, if no one else has a burning desire to do so. I enjoy doing such things, and doing such things is how I learn - reading alone does not suffice for me. If I do these, would you like to see such an aid in the form of the collision drawings I did? Personally, I find the drawing a little easier to read than photos, but I am willing to experiment as folks desire.

As for collisions, I hope to post a couple of collision quizzes by the end of the weekend - think chess puzzles.

The Royal Hajj
01-30-2014, 13:05
This is (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?6963-Maneuver-Deck-Analysis) what I'd like to see for SGN.