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Nightmoss
01-18-2014, 16:33
I just finished the standing rigging on the HMS Bellona and was going to use the 3D brass ratlines from Langton's on this 74. Having used the 74 brass ratlines on the HMS Terpsichore (32) I assumed a one step up would work, but now I'm not so sure? They all look like they're going to be too short? Here are two photos of a test ratline in place. Will this pass or should I just wait for the custom ratlines Keith is working on? Thanks!

Gunner
01-18-2014, 16:47
Looks Ok but, except for one or two, I'm going to wait for Keith's.

Jim, how do you attach the rigging to the bulkheads & deck.

The Mad Hatter
01-18-2014, 16:48
Based on Keith's prototype pics, I'm going to wait. I own some Langton ones, but what bothers me is their scale. Keith's look much better IMHO. So consider that one vote for waiting!

Coog
01-18-2014, 16:48
I'd wait. After putting that much work into it, I'd want to do it right the first time instead of cutting corners and regretting it later.

mleaman
01-18-2014, 17:54
Nice work on the rigging!

Berthier
01-18-2014, 18:47
Hey Jim I'd wait as well unless the ratlines from a 1st Rate which should be longer work.

Nightmoss
01-18-2014, 19:03
Thanks all for the feedback. I'm going to wait for the SoG custom ratlines. The one I'm using in the photo is from a 1st rate coded "3D" by Langton's. As far as I know they don't make anything larger?

@Ed, I'm using the same micro drills I use on the 1/1200 ships. It drills out the holes in about the same length of time. The only thing you have to watch out for is not scalping the decals off the deck.

Gunner
01-18-2014, 19:06
Thanks. I think I'll ruin, I mean try a few.

Nightmoss
01-18-2014, 19:13
Thanks. I think I'll ruin, I mean try a few.

These drills you can hold in your fingers, so you can go slow and set your own pace. Somewhat pricey, but they work really well. Word of caution, don't drop them from on high as the bits break when they hit the floor.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009WCBV14/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Devsdoc
01-18-2014, 19:18
I like your work Jim, I would make your own from netting or wait for Keith's sets
Be safe
Rory

Gunner
01-18-2014, 19:58
Thanks for the info but, my hand drills should do the trick.

Nightmoss
01-18-2014, 23:20
I like your work Jim, I would make your own from netting or wait for Keith's sets
Be safe
Rory

Hey Rory. The netting is a possibility and the Langton book explains just how to do it.


Thanks for the info but, my hand drills should do the trick.

Sounds good, Ed. I think you'll find there's more room to work with in these sculpts, being they're 1/1000.

7eat51
01-18-2014, 23:57
These drills you can hold in your fingers, so you can go slow and set your own pace. Somewhat pricey, but they work really well. Word of caution, don't drop them from on high as the bits break when they hit the floor.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009WCBV14/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Jim, you do beautiful work. I was showing a friend some of the ships this evening. As nice as they are for coming out of a box, and for that, they are nice, the enhancements you have been showing do elevate them quite a bit.

I paid special attention to the white support bit behind the sails this evening; when the ships are on the table, they don't seem distracting to me. I think once rigging and ratlines are on these, they won't be noticeable to most people at all. My friend didn't even comment on them as the ships currently are, though he was eyeballing them pretty closely. I think the same will hold true for folks who are heavily on the side of gamer as opposed to modeler.

Thank you for the link.

Nightmoss
01-19-2014, 11:25
Jim, you do beautiful work. I was showing a friend some of the ships this evening. As nice as they are for coming out of a box, and for that, they are nice, the enhancements you have been showing do elevate them quite a bit.

I paid special attention to the white support bit behind the sails this evening; when the ships are on the table, they don't seem distracting to me. I think once rigging and ratlines are on these, they won't be noticeable to most people at all. My friend didn't even comment on them as the ships currently are, though he was eyeballing them pretty closely. I think the same will hold true for folks who are heavily on the side of gamer as opposed to modeler.

Thank you for the link.

Thanks, Eric. I can honestly say that the support section for the sails has almost totally receded from my mind as an issue for these sculpts. If the Wave 2 ships actually include ships with courses furled it's going to be even less of a sore point for the modeler perfectionists. One concern I do have now that I've had an accident with the HMS Bellona is the 'brittleness' of the plastic. While removing the flag pole in the deck I caught the upper part of the mizzen sails and it snapped right off. The plastic only bends to a certain point and then it's going to break. Fortunately, it was a good break which made the super glue take much better, and now that the standing rigging is in place it will probably add support for future.

Gunner
01-19-2014, 13:02
I wish there was a way for Ares to have the masts on following waves un-mounted, making it much easier to paint or work on their models. And selling the sails at different settings. I would buy extra sets of all. :fixit::please:

The Royal Hajj
01-20-2014, 10:41
I just finished the standing rigging on the HMS Bellona and was going to use the 3D brass ratlines from Langton's on this 74. Having used the 74 brass ratlines on the HMS Terpsichore (32) I assumed a one step up would work, but now I'm not so sure? They all look like they're going to be too short? Here are two photos of a test ratline in place. Will this pass or should I just wait for the custom ratlines Keith is working on? Thanks!

Now you know why I decided to make custom ratlines for this scale ;) Nothing in the Langton range would work on these bigger SOL minis. And even if I was not the one selling them, I'd vote to wait as well. Your work is to good to cut corners when you don't have too.

Nightmoss
01-20-2014, 14:55
Now you know why I decided to make custom ratlines for this scale ;) Nothing in the Langton range would work on these bigger SOL minis. And even if I was not the one selling them, I'd vote to wait as well. Your work is to good to cut corners when you don't have too.

Can't wait. Not to be pushy about when we can expect your custom ratlines, but when can we expect your custom ratlines?! :happy:

Nightmoss
01-20-2014, 17:33
She's done, but she needs proper ratlines, Mr Gibbs. Doesn't matter if they're brass or stainless steel. I post additional pictures to show some before and after comparisons and to illustrate how much better she might look once those custom ratlines go into production? :wink: :sly:

The Royal Hajj
01-21-2014, 10:52
Can't wait. Not to be pushy about when we can expect your custom ratlines, but when can we expect your custom ratlines?! :happy:

I'm hoping April.

Nightmoss
01-21-2014, 11:58
I'm hoping April.

Thanks, Keith. I wasn't planning on doing many more repaints until the ratlines were ready, so this lets me get back to the Spanish 1/1200's that have been languishing on my hobby bench.

Gunner
01-21-2014, 12:00
Thanks for the close ups of your rigging, Jim.

Nightmoss
01-21-2014, 12:14
Thanks for the close ups of your rigging, Jim.

You're welcome, Ed. Once you get used to the flexible masts, they're much easier to rig than the metal minis, primarily because there's more room for ones tools and fingers. I don't think that would hold for running rigging although I may try one whenever we get those custom ratlines?

Avi
01-21-2014, 13:34
The before/ after comparison really brings out the difference.
Even painting without rigging looks much more impressive.

Thanks for sharing

Volunteer
01-22-2014, 06:49
I like the pirate ship Jim. You have made them presentable. Have you thought about highlighting the reef lines on the sails?

Nightmoss
01-22-2014, 10:22
I like the pirate ship Jim. You have made them presentable. Have you thought about highlighting the reef lines on the sails?

Thanks Vol. Yes, I tried a wash first and the results just didn't grab me? Maybe I need to use a more subtle color, but the reef lines are quite deep to start with so highlighting might just them too obvious? It's probably just my personal preference.

Gunner
01-22-2014, 11:25
I like the pirate ship Jim. You have made them presentable. Have you thought about highlighting the reef lines on the sails?

Hi Vol, I like your Russian ship album.

Nightmoss
01-23-2014, 19:15
Hi Vol, I like your Russian ship album.

Speaking of albums, Ed. I just saw your temporary storage solution for the SoG stuff. Really nice!

Gunner
01-23-2014, 19:48
Thanks Jim. They hold everything I need to get a game underway.

DeRuyter
01-24-2014, 12:45
She's done, but she needs proper ratlines, Mr Gibbs. Doesn't matter if they're brass or stainless steel. I post additional pictures to show some before and after comparisons and to illustrate how much better she might look once those custom ratlines go into production? :wink: :sly:

Not to be a nudge Jim, but for future rigging on British ships you can dispense with the ensign on the headstays, as I believe those were only flown when the ship was at anchor.

Eric

Nightmoss
01-24-2014, 14:54
Not to be a nudge Jim, but for future rigging on British ships you can dispense with the ensign on the headstays, as I believe those were only flown when the ship was at anchor.

Eric

Thanks Eric. I can certainly do that in future. My idea for doing so ws based on a of painting by Geoff Hunt.

DeRuyter
01-24-2014, 15:20
Thanks Eric. I can certainly do that in future. My idea for doing so ws based on a of painting by Geoff Hunt.

Ooh and that's the approach at Trafalgar (?). Best that I pull out my copy of Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" to double check the RN regs for flying ensigns (or David could chime in :question: )

Eric

Gunner
01-24-2014, 15:40
Geoff Hunt shows other paintings of SOL's at sea with an ensign on headstays.

csadn
01-24-2014, 16:58
Thanks Eric. I can certainly do that in future. My idea for doing so ws based on a of painting by Geoff Hunt.

<- tries to not hum "The Imperial March"... >;)

DeRuyter
01-24-2014, 17:08
Yes my bad :embarass:

I was thinking of the Union Jack which is mounted on the bowsprit when at anchor like this:

8677


I have not come across the purpose for flying a jack from the forestay as in Hunt's painting though, might have been an extra one put up for battle?

Eric

DeRuyter
01-24-2014, 17:09
PS: that page is taken from "Nelson's Navy" by Brian Lavery

Nightmoss
01-24-2014, 17:33
Yes my bad :embarass:

I was thinking of the Union Jack which is mounted on the bowsprit when at anchor like this:


I have not come across the purpose for flying a jack from the forestay as in Hunt's painting though, might have been an extra one put up for battle?

Eric

So, what do you think? Should I continue it in future (if the mood moves me). Which then brings up the question of whether other nations did the same thing? When I made the document for the British flag I went ahead and did the same for the French and Spanish flags too? Thanks!

By the way don't be embarrassed, this is exactly how I learn so much here on the Anchorage.

Devsdoc
01-24-2014, 18:29
For years we Brits are fighting over what to call our flag. Some think as I do that it is called the "Union flag" or "The flag of the Union". The flag pole on the Bowsprit is called the Jack. So should only called the "Union Jack" when flying from this pole "The Jack". If it is put up anywhere else land or sea it is called "The Union Flag". We still call it the Union Jack. Last year the B.B.C. said that for its programs it can be called both. :question:
Be safe
Rory

DeRuyter
01-24-2014, 18:40
So, what do you think? Should I continue it in future (if the mood moves me). Which then brings up the question of whether other nations did the same thing? When I made the document for the British flag I went ahead and did the same for the French and Spanish flags too? Thanks!

By the way don't be embarrassed, this is exactly how I learn so much here on the Anchorage.

I should have looked it up first. I just didn't recall seeing ships with jacks flying that way. I always did my Langton's more conventionally, an ensign on the spanker halyard and a pendant flying from the main mast. I did find in Lavery's aforementioned volume that a 74 was issued with 3 ensigns (one of each color depending on the Admiral), and three union jacks as well as a number of pendants.

So I thought that flying the jack while underway was for a special circumstance, and according to our friend Wiki it is at least currently:

"The Union Flag (also known as the Union Jack) should only be flown as a jack by Royal Navy ships when moored, at anchor, while underway and dressed with masthead ensigns or if the Monarch or an Admiral of the Fleet is on board. The Union Flag may also signal that a court martial is in progress." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Naval_ensigns

I am guessing that this was also the case in our era. Again David may be of help here! I think you should do it for some ships and certainly the 1st rates when they come out! It does look good.

Eric

Nightmoss
01-24-2014, 20:30
I should have looked it up first. I just didn't recall seeing ships with jacks flying that way. I always did my Langton's more conventionally, an ensign on the spanker halyard and a pendant flying from the main mast. I did find in Lavery's aforementioned volume that a 74 was issued with 3 ensigns (one of each color depending on the Admiral), and three union jacks as well as a number of pendants.

So I thought that flying the jack while underway was for a special circumstance, and according to our friend Wiki it is at least currently:

"The Union Flag (also known as the Union Jack) should only be flown as a jack by Royal Navy ships when moored, at anchor, while underway and dressed with masthead ensigns or if the Monarch or an Admiral of the Fleet is on board. The Union Flag may also signal that a court martial is in progress." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Naval_ensigns

I am guessing that this was also the case in our era. Again David may be of help here! I think you should do it for some ships and certainly the 1st rates when they come out! It does look good.

Eric

Great information, Eric. Thanks! I think I'll be selective in how I do this. I really admired that painting by Geoff so decided to incorporate it on the Bellona. I think using it on 1st rates makes a lot of sense. So, where's my HMS Victory?!?! :wink:

Gunner
01-24-2014, 23:37
Not to be a nudge Jim, but for future rigging on British ships you can dispense with the ensign on the headstays, as I believe those were only flown when the ship was at anchor.

Eric

Talk about timing. I'm watching (again)Horatio Hornblower in Loyalty, and when the Hotspur was in port and weighed anchor to leave, she lowered the ensign from the headstays.

Пилот
01-26-2014, 08:52
I don't know the word for cross-bars on the mast, which are sails hanged on...
(Pardon my lack of knowledge :salute:)

And question is, what colour should they be on British and French ships, respectively?

Is it black, or some different colour?

Coog
01-26-2014, 09:03
I don't know the word for cross-bars on the mast, which are sails hanged on...
(Pardon my lack of knowledge :salute:)

spars



And question is, what colour should they be on British and French ships, respectively?

Is it black, or some different colour?

I think they tended to differ...black and a finished wood color seem to be common from what I've seen.

Пилот
01-26-2014, 11:21
Thanks!
So, if I paint them same yellow as the mast is, is it OK (does that manufacturers yellow stands for finished wood)?
Anyway, I feel like ships need some post-box work to look even better then they do now.

Nightmoss
01-26-2014, 11:32
Thanks!
So, if I paint them same yellow as the mast is, is it OK (does that manufacturers yellow stands for finished wood)?
Anyway, I feel like ships need some post-box work to look even better then they do now.

They're your ships so you should paint them however you like. That being said you might want to read this over:

http://www.larsonweb.com/Transfer/Miniatures/Sail/NAPSHIPS.htm

Cheers!

Tradewinds Ted
01-26-2014, 11:57
spars also yards.

Пилот
01-26-2014, 16:24
Thanks, everybody!

dotichnus
02-02-2014, 22:49
Looking at Jim's nice pictures, is the proper place for the aft flag (not sure of the correct term) on a line strung between the gaff and the boom? Does this apply to the French and Spanish SOLs also?

Nightmoss
02-03-2014, 09:44
Looking at Jim's nice pictures, is the proper place for the aft flag (not sure of the correct term) on a line strung between the gaff and the boom? Does this apply to the French and Spanish SOLs also?

Fen, it's pretty standard to have the national flag hanging as depicted. Here's a link to some photos on Rod Langton's Miniatures page: http://www.rodlangton.com/napoleonic/frame.htm
If you check out the rest of the site you'll see even more examples. Check out this page for lots of useful Age of Sail information also: http://www.larsonweb.com/Transfer/Miniatures/Sail/NAPSHIPS.htm

KDz
03-01-2016, 14:45
Nice job.
I hawe to try to do my own rigging, looks realy good. :thumbsup:

Devsdoc
03-01-2016, 17:27
They're your ships so you should paint them however you like. That being said you might want to read this over:

http://www.larsonweb.com/Transfer/Miniatures/Sail/NAPSHIPS.htm

Cheers!

Hemahba (Sorry! best I can do)
Be careful not all his info is right. It is now very old and can be up-dated.
Most tops and fighting tops are black. Sometimes the area from the tops to the caps (the bit where the two masts are together was also many black. The French used White lower masts when on over-sea stations. Nelson like all his ships to have yellow iron bands around the British lower masts. He ordered two of his ship to re-paint them as going into battle at "Trafalgar" (He sent over the paint!). Most Nations used Black. Most spars/yards would be of a darker wood colour or black. Some had white tips. You could paint each of the 3 parts of the masts different colours if you wish. This can be made into a way to help you I.D. your different ships, fleets and /or Nations. Hope this helps you Jim is right do your own thing. Most Captains did if they had the money. God! They have now painted the Victory PINK!
Be safe
Rory

Devsdoc
03-01-2016, 17:58
Thanks Eric. I can certainly do that in future. My idea for doing so ws based on a of painting by Geoff Hunt.

Hi Jim,
Just been looking back at this thread. The "Union Flag" was only flew in harbour on the pole called the "Jack". The above painting is right. As Nelson ordered this all ships fly a Union flag on the jib/fore-stay rigging at "Trafalgar" to help I.D. British in the battle.
Be safe
Rory

Comte de Brueys
03-02-2016, 00:45
His name is Nemanja. :wink:

Nightmoss
03-02-2016, 08:39
Hi Jim,
Just been looking back at this thread. The "Union Flag" was only flew in harbour on the pole called the "Jack". The above painting is right. As Nelson ordered this all ships fly a Union flag on the jib/fore-stay rigging at "Trafalgar" to help I.D. British in the battle.
Be safe
Rory

Thanks Rory. Haven't had this ship on the water for some time. It also reminded me how much I like that painting by Geoff Hunt. I think it's going back on my pc as a wallpaper. :happy:

Devsdoc
03-02-2016, 11:57
His name is Nemanja. :wink:

Thanks Sven for your help. :salute: I copied Nemanja's name as best as I could from his post. I do hope I have not up-set him. Sorry if I have. :surrender: :embarass:
Be safe
Rory

Bligh
03-02-2016, 14:10
This is a thread that I have missed completely until now.
That superb picture appears here again, and the ships with the black sailed Pirate is bound to be included in my repaints now that I have watched Black Sails.
Thanks for "Flagging it up" again Kamil.
Rob.

KDz
03-03-2016, 04:32
Thanks for "Flagging it up" again Kamil.
Rob.
Any time, Rob :salute: