Any suggestions for a 4-player battle (2-3 ships each)?

[AlyssaFaden]

All -

Using the ships available through the Kickstarter at the captain level (1 of everything), are there any suggestions for what sort of 4 player battle I could set up? (it'll be this weekend and I'll be sure to post pictures). We'll play on a large blue felt mat instead of the singular SoG mat (unles I can pick up a few more in the next few days).

I'm wondering if 3 frigates are a good match for 1 SoL, therefore running 4 ships per side (3 frigs/ 1 SoL) or if there are more spicy combination that could make for an interesting layout and balance of powers. Coastal batteries would be an interesting addition also, maybe with a simple scenario such as 'escort' or something.

Thoughts?

[Shoot@Me]

http://www.sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?1764-How-many-frigates-equal-a-SOL

There was a discussion here and the consensus seemed to be that one SOL was equivalent to about 2.5 or 3 frigates, so your 3:1 ratio is about right.

Other than that, I can't make many suggestions. I haven't been able to get any friends over to play some games yet. Darn work project keeping me too busy.:surrender:

[AlyssaFaden]

Perfect, that helps. A SoL plus 3 frigates per side seems like a good start. I'd love to do some form of escort mission ... maybe for a crippled ship that needs escorting home and starts with some damage ... just trying to figure out how to get coastal batteries in there and what 'value' they have if the other side does not have them.

[David Manley]

The scenario pdf will have some useful guidance on modifying ship stats, including en flute frigates. They would make ideal transports for an escort mission

[AlyssaFaden]

The scenario pdf will have some useful guidance on modifying ship stats, including en flute frigates. They would make ideal transports for an escort mission

There a scenario PDF? *goes off to look for it* thank you

[AlyssaFaden]

Found it, thank you. This is giving me some food for thought.

[AlyssaFaden]

So I'm thinking about this for our Saturday game:

4 players
English: 1 SoL, 3 frigates, 1 SoL (which starts with damage to ship and crew, effectively halving its strength). The English are escorting their crippled flagship to the safety of England, but first they must sail through French guarded straits.

French: 1 SoL, 3 frigates, 1 coastal battery placed as a central island.

Play area: 2 mats (probably going to use a large felt mat I have as I currently do not have 2 mats, lol)

The French must destroy the flagship, the English must escort her to safety off the other side of the board. Reefs/shoals and coastal tiles will mean that the central island has to be sailed around, but can be avoided with due care of maneuvering.

Thinking about a point system:
French: +1 per English Frigate sunk, +3 for the SoL, +5 for the Flagship
English: +1 per French Frigate sunk, +3 for the SoL, +2 for the coastal battery, +5 for getting the flagship off the board

Really not sure on these as I have no idea what I am doing =D

[The Royal Hajj]

Try this for a fun escort game...

Side A
Player 1: 2x frigate
Player 2: 1x SOL and 2x frigates as merchant ships (halve all broadside numbers)

Side B
Player 1: 1x SoL (add another frigate if you happen to have more than 6)
Player 2: 2x frigate

Setup a sort of port in one of the lower corners of the table and put couple of forts near it. Setup Side A in the opposite corner and Side B half way along either long edge of the table. Randomly determine the wind direction (just flick that wind gauge like it's Twister!). Side A wins if they can get both merchant ships to port (base must touch shore, run aground so to speak), it's a draw if only one makes it and Side B wins if they are able to keep both from reach the port.

Not a historical engagement, but lots of fun and it places emphases on maneuvering... their by helping to avoid the "this game is too quick" issue you have been having.

[The Royal Hajj]

So I'm thinking about this for our Saturday game:

4 players
English: 1 SoL, 3 frigates, 1 SoL (which starts with damage to ship and crew, effectively halving its strength). The English are escorting their crippled flagship to the safety of England, but first they must sail through French guarded straits.

French: 1 SoL, 3 frigates, 1 coastal battery placed as a central island.

Play area: 2 mats (probably going to use a large felt mat I have as I currently do not have 2 mats, lol)

The French must destroy the flagship, the English must escort her to safety off the other side of the board. Reefs/shoals and coastal tiles will mean that the central island has to be sailed around, but can be avoided with due care of maneuvering.

Thinking about a point system:
French: +1 per English Frigate sunk, +3 for the SoL, +5 for the Flagship
English: +1 per French Frigate sunk, +3 for the SoL, +2 for the coastal battery, +5 for getting the flagship off the board

Really not sure on these as I have no idea what I am doing =D


That all sounds really fun as well.

[AlyssaFaden]

Try this for a fun escort game...

Side A
Player 1: 2x frigate
Player 2: 1x SOL and 2x frigates as merchant ships (halve all broadside numbers)

Side B
Player 1: 1x SoL (add another frigate if you happen to have more than 6)
Player 2: 2x frigate

Setup a sort of port in one of the lower corners of the table and put couple of forts near it. Setup Side A in the opposite corner and Side B half way along either long edge of the table. Randomly determine the wind direction (just flick that wind gauge like it's Twister!). Side A wins if they can get both merchant ships to port (base must touch shore, run aground so to speak), it's a draw if only one makes it and Side B wins if they are able to keep both from reach the port.

Not a historical engagement, but lots of fun and it places emphases on maneuvering... their by helping to avoid the "this game is too quick" issue you have been having.

Nice, nice, I like it - particularly getting merchant ships to harbor. Consider this in my black book of scenarios!

[AlyssaFaden]

So we ran this scenario yesterday with four players, but it does need some tweaking:

English: 1 SoL, 4 frigates, 1 merchant.
French: 1 SoL, 3 frigates, 2 coastal batteries

In hindsight the English should have been weaker and the merchantman should have been more fragile (we considered a frigate stat block, but SoL movement, or simply having the SoL be half destroyed and with a lower burden). Ultimately the English only had to get their merchantman off the board and the presence of the coastal batteries is not enough to really prevent that or balance the forces as we laid them out. I think there's a nugget in here though and will be tweaking how this one works.

I like The Royal Hajj suggestion above and will probably try that next!

8313

[The Royal Hajj]

At least you had fun! Oh, and did the game last longer this time?

[AlyssaFaden]

Yes. Naturally just having 4 players around the table and so many ships made it 'longer,' but the most important thing is the ranges tended to be further out and therefore there were lots of A chits being thrown around (I'm not sure I have reache dinto that bag in the last 3 games while playing on a smaller area!!!) I think from now on the 2-mat space is a minimum requirement unless we're using 1-2 ships per side.

[Capn Duff]

Was not the a Battle of Lissa fought with 4 Royal Navy frigates against a half dozen a French frigates, this should be do-able

[AlyssaFaden]

Thanks Capn for the tip. How would you go about balancing a 4 vs. 6 scrap?

[csadn]

Was not the a Battle of Lissa fought with 4 Royal Navy frigates against a half dozen a French frigates, this should be do-able

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lissa_%281811%29 :

Order of battle
Captain Hoste's squadron
Ship / Rate / Guns / Navy / Commander / Casualties / Notes / Killed / Wounded / Total
HMS Active / Fifth rate / 38 / United Kingdom / Captain James Alexander Gordon / 4 / 24 / 28
HMS Amphion / Fifth rate / 32 / United Kingdom / Captain William Hoste / 15 / 47 / 62
HMS Volage / Sixth rate / 22 / United Kingdom / Captain Phipps Hornby / 13 / 33 / 46
HMS Cerberus / Fifth rate / 32 / United Kingdom / Captain Henry Whitby / 13 / 41 / 54
Casualties: 45 killed, 145 wounded, 190 total

Commodore Dubourdieu's squadron
Ship / Rate / Guns / Navy / Commander / Casualties / Notes

Windward division
Favorite / Fifth rate / 40 / France / Commodore Bernard Dubourdieu †/ Captain Antonie-Francois-Zavier La Marre-la-Meillerie † / ~150 / Driven ashore and destroyed.
Flore Fifth rate / 40 / France / Captain Jean-Alexandre Péridier / unknown / Surrendered but later escaped to safety.
Bellona / Fifth rate / 32 / Napoleonic Kingdom of Italy / Captain Duodo † or Dudon / ~70 / Captured and later commissioned into the Royal Navy as troopship HMS Dover.

Leeward division
Danaé / Fifth rate / 40 / France / Captain Villon / unknown
Corona / Fifth rate / 40 / Napoleonic Kingdom of Italy / Captain Nicola Pasqualigo or Pasguilogo / unknown / Captured and later commissioned into the Royal Navy as HMS Daedalus.
Carolina / Fifth rate / 32 / Napoleonic Kingdom of Italy / Captain Palicuccia / unknown
Dubordieu's squadron was accompanied by the 16-gun brig Mercure, two small schooners Principessa Augusta and Principessa di Bologna, the xebec Eugenio and two gunboats (one named Lodola), none of which were heavily engaged. The squadron carried approximately 500 soldiers of the Italian Army under Colonel Alexander Gifflenga.
Casualties: approximately 700 killed, wounded or captured

[AlyssaFaden]

That sounds like one heck of a fight. How would you propose balancing it in game terms though?

[fredmiracle]

I guess the tools to hand are:

- slight variations in ships. As I recall, HMS Unite, HMS Concorde, and HMS Maleager are standout good. Embuscade and La Concorde are standout bad

- the crew and captain decks

- the poorly-trained gunners and poorly-trained sailors rules (which, apparently, are considered equivalent to two of the C&C cards)

The question is how to combine these in such as way as to balance it. There I think you are on the cutting edge of the game, and will have to make some guesses and see how it works out. I eagerly await the points-system, but I get the sense that the designers don't really know either and are waiting to see more results from players (?)

[AlyssaFaden]

I'm running another 4 player game this Thursday evening and would love to run this one if I could make it work. Using the cards is an interesting way to do it (or the poorly trained gunners/sailors). I do not have a sense yet for how they top a game (.e. their point value), but will take a close look at this.

[fredmiracle]

I put some stream-of-consciousness thoughts out there, I'd love to hear your take on it

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?2040-Thinking-about-a-points-system&p=26228#post26228