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fredmiracle
01-09-2014, 03:33
In case this is interesting/useful for anyone, I compiled an XL spreadsheet of all the ship (and fort) stats. In my mind, at least, this is useful for comparing ships, thinking about the statting system, planning custom cards, supporting the points-based scenario system when it comes out, etc.

the file is available on the forum here (updated for wave 2):
http://sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=82

Let me know if you spot any mistakes...

BSG_Fan
01-09-2014, 07:23
Thanks so much for this. I'm one of the people whose KS reward hasn't even shipped yet, but I've been dying to know whether there are differences between ships of the same class.

The Royal Hajj
01-09-2014, 07:46
Thanks for this Fred. The Files section is functioning, so please upload it there as well so that it can be more easily found in the future. Thanks.

Diamondback
01-09-2014, 12:10
Fred, this game or fullsize? I've been collecting fullsize stats for a while, so once my recovery program salvages my work drive it might be interesting to compare notes... :)

SeaRoyal20
01-09-2014, 12:52
Thanks Fred> Saves me the trouble!

Gaz67
01-09-2014, 12:57
@ Andrew, I got my shipping notification yesterday (8th) but it was shipped from Ft Wayne on the 2nd, so it may already be on route.

fredmiracle
01-09-2014, 13:35
Fred, this game or fullsize? I've been collecting fullsize stats for a while, so once my recovery program salvages my work drive it might be interesting to compare notes... :)

Just game stats. This is my attempt at something along the lines of Hap Hapablap's War at Sea spreadsheet.

As reported anecdotally, the ships are pretty darn close to one another. Which is fine, it's a very justifiable game design philosophy, although for me personally it may mean I will buy less duplicates and sister ships.

A few points of interest or "hmm" moments:
- the two ships that are listed as having been upgraded to 34 appear to have no discernable benefit in gun factors. I'm sure the difference of one gun on the broadside was negligible, but as a designer I would have made sure they came in at the high end of their class, to match the increase players might expect to see.
- British frigates often seem to get a bump in gunnery
- fairly large (10-20%) differences in crew size affect musketry around the edges, but not the ability to cope with crew damage, nor the number of actions available, nor melee combat power
- There are a few relative outlier ships--particularly Redoubatable and HMS Impetueux--and I'm curious why they got the marginal advantages they did (Embuscade is also particularly bad, but maybe because the crew was small?)


To be honest, I don't know how far we can go in trying to read anything into the stats. To me this appears pretty similar to what you would see if you made all ships of the same class identical, and then had a macro tweak a few values up and down at random...

fredmiracle
01-09-2014, 13:45
One other takeaway, on the basis of raw stats (and not actually having had a chance to play the game yet), it looks like two frigates should be able to take on one SOL. One Amazon and one Concorde together should be able to take about as much hull damage as an SOL. Together they should be able to deal out, on average, a bit more damage than an Elizabeth SOL, and a bit less than a Temeriere. Also they should have some possibility to maneuver for more advantageous shots. Together they can take a lot more crew damage than a single SOL. On the downside, their combat power may decline faster than that of the SOL as damage mounts. Anyway, on paper I think it eyeballs as pretty even.

The Royal Hajj
01-09-2014, 13:50
You will want more than 2:1 vs a SOL when you hit the table :cannonboom:

Diamondback
01-09-2014, 13:56
GTK, Fred--I'm working the fullsizes trying to figure out future sculpt reuse and proxies, so maybe if we combine our data we'll be able to build a foundation for custom-card creators.

I would guess the boost to Redoutable was because of how Captain Lucas drove his crew at Trafalgar, how a 74 went toe-to-toe with a First Rate and had it come out a draw if not technically losing for the bigger ship... (Victory was really getting plastered, until another ship came to her aid, IIRC.) Embuscade's probably downgraded because of the difference between British and French weaponry, ditto in reverse HMS Impetueux.

Just my best guess, Andrea could probably give you a better answer. As it is, we have a good reason to reverse-engineer the formula he used... if we can do that, we have an Instant 64 simply by downgrading a few stats on the Slade 74's. (The St. Albans class of three 64's was a slightly-downscaled variant, in game scale the model would be like 2mm shorter and less than 1mm narrower of beam.)

7eat51
01-09-2014, 15:47
You will want more than 2:1 vs a SOL when you hit the table :cannonboom:

Agreed. From what I saw during games, a good hit from an SOL greatly reduced a frigate's ability to subsequently cause damage, but not vise-versa, a reduction to be sure, but not enough to greatly reduce - not enough hull boxes being checked off. It would take very good maneuvering and some raking shots to even things up.

If an SOL gets a raking shot at close range on a frigate, the frigate is sol, if you will. I must admit, it was beautiful when it happened, but kind of gave you the chills when the damage chits started hitting the table and the hull boxes started to fill in.

csadn
01-09-2014, 17:10
I would guess the boost to Redoutable was because of how Captain Lucas drove his crew at Trafalgar,

Lucas foresaw how a fight would play out, and trained accordingly -- heavy on the musket training, and getting the cannons loaded fast (at the range he expected to fight, accuracy for the cannons was a nonissue).

The Mad Hatter
01-10-2014, 21:15
Ha! I played in the game Eric mentioned! Ugly, UGLY time to be a frigate captain (and they said it was a glorious job).....

Walram
05-17-2014, 22:40
Fredmiracle - Looking forward to your Wave 2 update! (Hint-hint :wink: )
BTW. I see you're from Washington. Any chance of seeing you at Enfilade? I didn't get a chance to preregister, but I plan to be there.

Пилот
05-18-2014, 01:59
In case this is interesting/useful for anyone, I compiled an XL spreadsheet of all the ship (and fort) stats. In my mind, at least, this is useful for comparing ships, thinking about the statting system, planning custom cards, supporting the points-based scenario system when it comes out, etc.

I'm not sure the forum upload feature is working, so you can get the file here:

http://depositfiles.com/files/xzmb3we5g

Let me know if you spot any mistakes...

Unfortunately:
"This file does not exist, the access to the following file is limited or it has been removed due to infringement of copyright."

:sad:

Walram
05-18-2014, 09:01
Unfortunately:
"This file does not exist, the access to the following file is limited or it has been removed due to infringement of copyright."

:sad:

Sorry about that. No intention of requesting infringed copyrighted material, but the table was a great way to compare the ships! Especially the calculations done at the end.
Fred - when you did the measurements of the wind angles, did you measure from the center hole out to the edge of the card?

I've been trying to measure the maneuver cards to see if I could make reference to turning [number of] points (for orders purposes).

I haven't been very successful (Not consistent in my measurements - possibly due to my crude compass). I've been measuring from the vertical center line of the card and the final facing of the direction arrow. It should work this way but I haven't been consistent in the results.
Anyone else been trying this?

fredmiracle
05-18-2014, 14:18
Huh, that's weird.

I was going to post it (once I have the ships myself, which may still be a while since I ordered them via a 3rd party).

So is there some policy against such spreadsheets? Or is it just fallout from website problems? I hope it is not a policy decision--that would seem counter-productive to encouraging community debate and discussion about the game. As far as I can see, the downside for Ares to posting this information is very low, and the upside is moderately good.

Anyway, once I have my units, I'm happy to email the updated spreadsheet to people that are interested. But I hope we don't have to fall back on this poor substitute...

Nightmoss
05-18-2014, 16:04
See post #22 here: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?2385-National-Flags&highlight=files

We may still have issues with the website?

Пилот
05-20-2014, 01:04
Sorry about that. No intention of requesting infringed copyrighted material, but the table was a great way to compare the ships! Especially the calculations done at the end.
...

I completely agree.

7eat51
05-20-2014, 07:50
Hi Fred,

The link you supplied in the OP does not exist. You do have a spreadsheet of ship details from Wave 1 in our file section: http://sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=31

That file is available.

As for copyright issues, see http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?1814-Anchorage-Copyright-and-Posting-Protocol&highlight=copyright

fredmiracle
05-20-2014, 10:43
Hi Fred,

The link you supplied in the OP does not exist. You do have a spreadsheet of ship details from Wave 1 in our file section: http://sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=31

That file is available.

As for copyright issues, see http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?1814-Anchorage-Copyright-and-Posting-Protocol&highlight=copyright

Thank you--my bad! I will update the OP to avoid confusion

fredmiracle
06-06-2014, 22:01
The spreadsheet has been updated for wave 2! Please inform me of any mistakes, I'm sure there are a few... :takecover:

http://sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=82

fredmiracle
06-18-2014, 14:56
An updated version has been uploaded which allows you to print out ship logs, if you would prefer to track the battle using pencil and paper instead of chits.

http://sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=83

On the "Ship Mats" tab you can pick up to four ships. In the upper left of each, where the ship name goes, there is a dropdown to allow you to select the unit you want. All the stats will then be filled in automatically.

If you want any of the charts to be blank, you can just delete the name (delete key or backspace) and it will be cleared.

Then you can print it--make sure it's scaling to "Fit Sheet on One Page"

David Manley
06-18-2014, 15:36
What an excellent resource - well done!

7eat51
06-18-2014, 16:20
Fred, I just spent some time looking through this. As David said, you created an exceptional resource. Well done, indeed. :hatsoff:

Nightmoss
06-18-2014, 16:27
An updated version has been uploaded which allows you to print out ship logs, if you would prefer to track the battle using pencil and paper instead of chits.

http://sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=83

On the "Ship Mats" tab you can pick up to four ships. In the upper left of each, where the ship name goes, there is a dropdown to allow you to select the unit you want. All the stats will then be filled in automatically.

If you want any of the charts to be blank, you can just delete the name (delete key or backspace) and it will be cleared.

Then you can print it--make sure it's scaling to "Fit Sheet on One Page"

Exceptional! Thanks! I'd give you more positive rep for this, but I've exceeded my limit and need to spread it around. :wink:

Clearly I've been away from spreadsheet use for too long, but I'm not seeing the drop down option on the Ship Mats Tab. I wonder if I'm using an older version?

fredmiracle
06-18-2014, 16:41
Clearly I've been away from spreadsheet use for too long, but I'm not seeing the drop down option on the Ship Mats Tab. I wonder if I'm using an older version?

Yeah, I wish the dropdown arrow showed all the time, but it is only visible when you select the cell you want to edit. So if you select the big cell with black border at the upper-left of each mat, where the ship's name goes, then you should get the dropdown and be able to select the name of any ship or fort

(I believe the list will be sorted based on how you currently have the table on the main sheet sorted...)

Naharaht
06-18-2014, 22:58
Many thanks, Fred.

Nightmoss
06-19-2014, 08:04
Still can't get the drop down box to show in your spreadsheets when using the Ship Mats tab. It could be the version of Excel I'm using or I'm missing something obvious?

If I click in the box that says HMS Bellerophon the drop down arrow should appear, but it's not?

Cpt Kangaroo
06-19-2014, 11:19
Jim, I don't see the drop down on the sheet, but I copied the text from tab one and pasted it into the text input box on the tool bar after highlighting the ships name merged cells. That works fine after hitting the enter button. You can't just paste it directly as you get a cell format error.

I am using Excel 2007.

This is a very slick application and I can see getting a lot of use out of it.

Many Kudo's on this one!

:thumbsup:

fredmiracle
06-19-2014, 12:01
Still can't get the drop down box to show in your spreadsheets when using the Ship Mats tab. It could be the version of Excel I'm using or I'm missing something obvious?

If I click in the box that says HMS Bellerophon the drop down arrow should appear, but it's not?

Hmm, that's an odd one. I went back to an old PC and saw the same thing you are seeing. The funny thing is that the "data validation" feature I'm using for the dropdown hasn't changed. Anyway, I added the same logic there and it seems to work as expected.

See if the updated one does the trick:
http://sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=83

Nightmoss
06-19-2014, 12:16
Jim, I don't see the drop down on the sheet, but I copied the text from tab one and pasted it into the text input box on the tool bar after highlighting the ships name merged cells. That works fine after hitting the enter button. You can't just paste it directly as you get a cell format error.

I am using Excel 2007.

This is a very slick application and I can see getting a lot of use out of it.

Many Kudo's on this one!

:thumbsup:

Many thanks for the tip Erin. Before I could try it Fred replied below.


Hmm, that's an odd one. I went back to an old PC and saw the same thing you are seeing. The funny thing is that the "data validation" feature I'm using for the dropdown hasn't changed. Anyway, I added the same logic there and it seems to work as expected.

See if the updated one does the trick:
http://sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=83

It works great and the drop down arrow shows right there when you click in the main ship text box as you initially indicated. Super and thanks!!

Cpt Kangaroo
06-19-2014, 13:57
Fred, that did it. It works as advertised and even Slickierer than before.

Again, awesome job, this will be used a lot.

Plus it is expandable as the series grow.

Thanks for the effort.