Advanced Boarding at the end of combat instead of at the end of planning

[Eldil]

Hey all,

I've been slowly working my way through the advanced rules, trying to wrap my head around the game's flow, and there's one element that vexed me dearly.

In the advanced rules, boarding takes place "at the end of the Planning phase, after actions are revealed" (page 39).

The effect of this is that you should never plan a boarding action unless you are already in base-to-base contact with a hostile ship. Even if, at the beginning or your turn, an enemy ship is within musketry range, there's no reason to ready a boarding party (even if its just to defend yourself).

This makes the choice to plan the boarding action a no-brainer. Unless your ship is on fire and sinking and you only have two crew actions, playing a boarding action seems mandatory as long as you are base-to-base; otherwise an opponent could intentionally kill of your entire crew without taking a single casualty. And if you're not base to base, you should never plan a boarding action.

I'm suggesting a house rule in which the boarding action resolution is moved to the end of the combat phase, after movement, cannon fire and musket fire. So if there's a hostile ship close on your starboard quarter, but not yet close enough to grapple you. You, as the captain, must decide whether to assemble a party to repel boarders (knowing you still might maneuver free of your pursuer), or to assign them to more crucial tasks and hope you can keep clear of the hostile ship.

I think that creates a more interesting and thematic decision.

[Zarathud]

The rules are definitely confusing, but I am not sure you are interpreting this correctly as I believe resolution of the Boarding attack always occurs after artillery and musketry fire in the combat phase.

For Basic and Standard rules, on pages 37-38 it indicates that boarding actions and resolution are essentially split into two phases. For "Phase 1," page 37 indicates that boarding declarations and grappling checks are made at the beginning of the Planning Phase before planning maneuver cards. Once grapples and boarding declarations are made, per page 38, the actual Boarding attack ("Phase 2" of boarding) is resolved at the end of the Combat Phase after artillery and musketry fire.

For boarding in Advanced rules, it does indeed state that "Attempts to board and grapple opposing ships are done at the end of the Planning phase, after actions are revealed."

First, I believe there is an obvious typo here as actions are revealed in the Action Phase, so this should actually read "Attempts to board and grapple opposing ships are done at the end of the Action Phase, after actions are revealed."

Second, I believe when it says "Attempts to board and grapple opposing ships" it is only referring to the "Phase 1" activity, which is to declare boarding and determine grappling effects. The actual boarding attack is still resolved at the end of the Combat Phase. I don't see why the whole boarding resolution would be moved to the end of the Action Phase for the Advanced rules, but it does make sense to move the grappling portion to accommodate planned actions.

Also, keep in mind that even if you are in base to base contact before planning your actions, if only one player plans a Boarding action, there is only a 50% chance of grappling. If the ships are not grappled, the opponent can potentially move away and even if they don't move away, the ships must be grappled for the boarding attack to occur.

In addition, I am not sure how an opponent can wipe you out unless you are very low on crew. If the opponent has a boarding action and you do not, they get a bonus E counter on you to start and then a second E counter to start the process of alternating damage. So at most you will take 2 crew hits before you can attack back and then you will be alternating hits. Remember, per p. 38 you are still drawing E chits simultaneously, it is just that the player who planned Boarding action applies his damage to the opponent first on each individual draw.

[Eldil]

The rules are definitely confusing, but I am not sure you are interpreting this correctly as I believe resolution of the Boarding attack always occurs after artillery and musketry fire in the combat phase.

Thanks for the response; I noticed someone's posting on BGG and began to wonder if my interpretation was wrong. I really wish the rules had been written a little more clearly on this point.


In addition, I am not sure how an opponent can wipe you out unless you are very low on crew. If the opponent has a boarding action and you do not, they get a bonus E counter on you to start and then a second E counter to start the process of alternating damage. So at most you will take 2 crew hits before you can attack back and then you will be alternating hits. Remember, per p. 38 you are still drawing E chits simultaneously, it is just that the player who planned Boarding action applies his damage to the opponent first on each individual draw.

This was another incorrect interpretation on my part.

Page 39: "During the boarding, the effect of the damage counters drawn is not simultaneous. The damage inflicted by each counter drawn by the ship that planned the boarding action is applied first, then the damage inflicted by the other ship is applied." (bolding mine)

I read this as "the damage inflicted by the other ship is applied after the damage from each (meaning all) counters from the boarding ship was applied." But the following example clearly shows this is incorrect.

Anyway, thanks for pointing that out to me. I've found this rulebook painfully un-friendly for games that incorporate the advanced and optional rules; I've even been trying to build a flow-chart just to understand how elements relate.

[Zarathud]

I have been drafting up my own QRS, which is a little more comprehensive than the ones currently on BGG. Feel free to have a look and let me know if the flow makes sense. All feedback welcome. I will post updates to the same link.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6667797/SoG%20QRS.pdf

[Avi]

Rob - thanks for that - saved immediately in my must print directory:thumbsup:

[Gunner]

I'm posting here not to add anything (for now anyway) but to make sure I don't miss any amendments to Rob's QRS.

[Eldil]

I have been drafting up my own QRS, which is a little more comprehensive than the ones currently on BGG. Feel free to have a look and let me know if the flow makes sense. All feedback welcome. I will post updates to the same link.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6667797/SoG%20QRS.pdf

This looks great. The only thing I noticed--and I might have missed it--is that if, during the planning phase, your ship is NOT at struck sails and there are no maneuver cards planned, you plan a single maneuver card and then skip the movement phase that turn. But it's a nice, clear layout--very helpful.

[Zarathud]

This looks great. The only thing I noticed--and I might have missed it--is that if, during the planning phase, your ship is NOT at struck sails and there are no maneuver cards planned, you plan a single maneuver card and then skip the movement phase that turn. But it's a nice, clear layout--very helpful.

I think the planning part of that is already covered by the second bullet under step 1-c., but I added a bullet under 3-a. to cover having no maneuver planned.

I made a bunch of other significant updates including taking a stab at explaining advanced boarding. Feedback welcome. Same link.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6667797/SoG%20QRS.pdf

[Пилот]

I find it very useful. Thanks for sharing!

[Zarathud]

The draft is now complete at the same link above. A few corrections and I added the terrain rules.

[Gunner]

I think the planning part of that is already covered by the second bullet under step 1-c., but I added a bullet under 3-a. to cover having no maneuver planned.

I made a bunch of other significant updates including taking a stab at explaining advanced boarding. Feedback welcome. Same link.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6667797/SoG%20QRS.pdf

Rob, have you thought about sending a copy of your quick reference sheets to Ares, and asking them for their thoughts?
We would all be interested in their reply.

[Zarathud]

Rob, have you thought about sending a copy of your quick reference sheets to Ares, and asking them for their thoughts?
We would all be interested in their reply.

I did post it up to the SoG Yahoo group, which the Ares folks frequent, and I asked for feedback.

[Sverre]

Thanks for the QRS! Great stuff!
This should be in the box imho.