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Nightmoss
01-05-2014, 15:38
I couldn't resist a first attempt at doing some repaint work on one of the SoG ships. I decided to go with the HMS Terpsichore because it's smaller and would give me a good idea how hard painting between sails (which can't be removed) would be, and it's hull 'out of the box' is all black to start with. I've got quite a bit of touch up work to do, and I want to put down a mat coating to protect the paint, but as other have already said just some simple painting makes a big difference. Tomorrow if my hands aren't to stiff from the extreme cold I'm going to try some standing rigging. Two photos to give a rough idea how the work is so far.

P.S. Following up on Eric's suggestion of a 'before' and 'after' photo I found one that one of our members had posted on his blog I believe (Barks)? So, this is not my 'before' photo, but close enough to give you some idea of the original sculpt.

David Manley
01-05-2014, 15:45
Painting in the yards works a treat and you'll find a light brown wash brings out the detail beautifully, especially in the sails.

Nightmoss
01-05-2014, 15:50
Painting in the yards works a treat and you'll find a light brown wash brings out the detail beautifully, especially in the sails.

I don't always have the best luck with washes, but the sails do need something to 'warm' them up a bit. I'll try that tomorrow before I put down a mat coating. Thanks!

David Manley
01-05-2014, 16:12
I've been using Games Workshop washes, the brown and sepia. They seem to work ok

Gunner
01-05-2014, 19:51
Jim, did you use enamel or acrylic paint, and how well did it go on?

Nightmoss
01-05-2014, 20:28
Jim, did you use enamel or acrylic paint, and how well did it go on?

Ed, I used acrylic paints. They went on very well, although a second coat might be needed on some areas. The sails covered really well. The masts and bowsprit are glossy paint so a second coat will help.

The Royal Hajj
01-05-2014, 21:29
So black would be the correct color for most ships on the yards?

Nightmoss
01-05-2014, 21:40
So black would be the correct color for most ships on the yards?

From many of the references I've seen online black yards seem to predominate, but I've also seen fine looking paint jobs that don't have black yards. Here's one guide I've looked at a lot:

http://www.larsonweb.com/Transfer/Miniatures/Sail/NAPSHIPS.htm

7eat51
01-06-2014, 08:17
I couldn't resist a first attempt at doing some repaint work on one of the SoG ships.

Nice enhancement, Jim. I look forward to seeing the finished rework.

It would be interesting/enjoyable to see before-and-after photos of folk's rework projects.


I've been using Games Workshop washes, the brown and sepia. They seem to work ok

Is this the sepia to which you are referring?
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat800004a&prodId=prod1500258a

Came across this rust while looking. Has anyone ever used something like this on WII armor or other such minis?
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod2250094a

Berthier
01-07-2014, 03:57
That's quite a difference you've made to the ships' appearance, very impressive work.

GrouperKicker
01-07-2014, 08:09
Is this the sepia to which you are referring?
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat800004a&prodId=prod1500258a


That's exactly the GW shade/wash that I have been considering to try on the sails. (I'm sure that vallejo has something similar, I'm just less familiar with the washes/shades from that line.)
I'm wondering if it would make sense to put a coat of a white/bone color on the sails first or if the GW shade will work directly on the plastic...

DeRuyter
01-07-2014, 09:15
That's exactly the GW shade/wash that I have been considering to try on the sails. (I'm sure that vallejo has something similar, I'm just less familiar with the washes/shades from that line.)
I'm wondering if it would make sense to put a coat of a white/bone color on the sails first or if the GW shade will work directly on the plastic...

You are correct Vallejo has a sepia tone wash, which is the one I use the most. Vallejo has a wash set as well:

http://www.amazon.com/Vallejo-Wash-Set-17Ml/dp/B004RO3UCU/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1389111158&sr=8-4&keywords=vallejo+paint+set

I only use the sepia, black, and flesh tone. I think the sepia will work well for the sails and the deck.

Eric

DeRuyter
01-07-2014, 09:16
Jim:

Your enhancements look great! Can't wait to see her rigged!

Eric

Coog
01-07-2014, 09:25
Looks great! Takes away a toy-like appearance.

Nightmoss
01-08-2014, 09:59
HMS Terpsichore is done, well maybe some touch ups yet, but she turned out much better than I expected. The rigging is exactly as the Langton book says it should be, minus the bowsprit details of course. The ratlines are Langton brass for 74s and I did minimal trimming to get them to fit. In some ways it was easier to put the ratlines on this ship that the Langton's or the GHQ's?! That was a big surprise. Rigging itself is tricky because the masts are somewhat flexible. If you pull too hard one way you'll end up loosening the lines opposite (I found that holding, gluing and releasing the lines rapidly worked the best, and you can always tighten up lines with super glue later). Enjoy!

David Manley
01-08-2014, 10:01
Nicely done :happy:

The Royal Hajj
01-08-2014, 10:08
Dang man, that looks just great!

7eat51
01-08-2014, 10:29
What a difference, Jim. Well done. :hatsoff:

And another project for Sue.

Nightmoss
01-08-2014, 10:32
What a difference, Jim. Well done. :hatsoff:

And another project for Sue.

Come on, Eric. You can't let Sue have all the fun!

7eat51
01-08-2014, 10:38
Come on, Eric. You can't let Sue have all the fun!

No worries there. I plan on making my fair share of wrecks.

What did you end up using on the sails?

Gunner
01-08-2014, 10:38
WOW, that is fine work Jim.
Now we all know why we need at least two of everything.

Nightmoss
01-08-2014, 10:46
No worries there. I plan on making my fair share of wrecks.

What did you end up using on the sails?

Brown ink I had on hand, which I just thinned with distilled water. It's still too cold to go out and look for ready made wash. I'm still learning the wash techniques though, so highlights might have been better?


WOW, that is fine work Jim.
Now we all know why we need at least two of everything.

That's pretty much why I sprung for Commodore. Lots of ships to work on now, and I still have the Langton Spanish fleet to finish!? Yikes.

Thanks all the compliments.

DeRuyter
01-08-2014, 10:49
Great job she looks 100% better.

GrouperKicker
01-08-2014, 10:51
Fantastic! Did you use the brown ink on the entire model or just the sails?

Nightmoss
01-08-2014, 13:02
Fantastic! Did you use the brown ink on the entire model or just the sails?

I ended up doing a moderate wash over the entire ship. Focused most of the attention on the sails and deck though.

Berthier
01-08-2014, 15:44
Jim did you remove the exisitng flag mast from th model and if so does this leave a large hole in the deck?

Nightmoss
01-08-2014, 15:55
Jim did you remove the exisitng flag mast from th model and if so does this leave a large hole in the deck?

Daniel, I did try to remove the flag and mast. Unfortunately, they use very good glue and it snapped off right at the base. I just dabbed some brown paint on the remnants and it looks just like another hatch to below decks.

P.S. You can just make it out from the photo that's fourth row down from the top.

Coog
01-08-2014, 15:55
Definitely makes the sail connecting piece less noticeable. Great job.

Berthier
01-08-2014, 16:31
Daniel, I did try to remove the flag and mast. Unfortunately, they use very good glue and it snapped off right at the base. I just dabbed some brown paint on the remnants and it looks just like another hatch to below decks.


Thanks Jim, do you think using a pair of clipper pliers would work to cut it off shear to the deck or is access to the spot too difficult? Havent got my models yet so I cant look myself!

Devsdoc
01-08-2014, 16:51
Nice one Jim, You have made them a lot better to look at.
Be safe
Roy

Shoot@Me
01-08-2014, 17:23
That looks great! I am thinking I'll give rigging a try eventually, but I am not sure my shaky hands will be capable of painting.

Nightmoss
01-08-2014, 17:57
Thanks Jim, do you think using a pair of clipper pliers would work to cut it off shear to the deck or is access to the spot too difficult? Havent got my models yet so I cant look myself!

Yes, I would think so, but you might have better luck with small scissors that have a slight curve and not very broad blades (like cuticle scissors)? The trick will be getting the cutting part down below the gunwales so you can make a flush cut.

Nightmoss
01-08-2014, 18:01
Nice one Jim, You have made them a lot better to look at.
Be safe
Roy

Thanks Rory! They do fancy up pretty nicely.


That looks great! I am thinking I'll give rigging a try eventually, but I am not sure my shaky hands will be capable of painting.

Be sure to check out Keith's thread on the paint brush bristle rigging method. If he can get those photos back up this weekend you can see a much faster, but just as viable, a method to enhance the ships look.

Gunner
01-08-2014, 18:30
Yes, I would think so, but you might have better luck with small scissors that have a slight curve and not very broad blades (like cuticle scissors)? The trick will be getting the cutting part down below the gunwales so you can make a flush cut.

Try these http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=plastic+cutters&tag=mh0b-20&index=aps&hvadid=3480101095&ref=pd_sl_1j8b6wf5rs_p :beer:

Andy Blozinski
01-08-2014, 18:38
Well bless you and curse you at the same time! Here I thought I was going to be able to lazily get away with some ratlines and then call it a day. I didn't register that the yards and tops were not painted. That's actually bugging me more than the filled in sail areas now. That has GOT to go. Since you had to go and make a fine example of yourself, now this means I have to become a responsible citizen. I'm now planning on painting all the masting, tops and then ratlines. I might try Keith's brush rigging if I get crazy.

Gunner
01-08-2014, 18:43
Try these http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=plastic+cutters&tag=mh0b-20&index=aps&hvadid=3480101095&ref=pd_sl_1j8b6wf5rs_p :beer:

I just tried it. Even these will leave a very tiny bump because of the angle to get at the post.

Nightmoss
01-08-2014, 20:45
Well bless you and curse you at the same time! Here I thought I was going to be able to lazily get away with some ratlines and then call it a day. I didn't register that the yards and tops were not painted. That's actually bugging me more than the filled in sail areas now. That has GOT to go. Since you had to go and make a fine example of yourself, now this means I have to become a responsible citizen. I'm now planning on painting all the masting, tops and then ratlines. I might try Keith's brush rigging if I get crazy.

Please post your results. I enjoy and learn a lot from everyone who shares here. You do know that Keith is planning on producing stainless steel ratlines measured exactly for our SoG ships. It will make things much easier I think.


I just tried it. Even these will leave a very tiny bump because of the angle to get at the post.

Ed, now you've got me thinking that a dremel tool used carefully could probably grind down any residual bump without too much problem (or damage to the deck)?

Coog
01-08-2014, 20:56
I don't know if I would use a Dremel...one slip and you've scarred your model badly. After clipping the mast off, I would use a small chisel shaped X-acto knife blade to carefully remove the bump or a small modeling file.

Nightmoss
01-08-2014, 21:07
I don't know if I would use a Dremel...one slip and you've scarred your model badly. After clipping the mast off, I would use a small chisel shaped X-acto knife blade to carefully remove the bump or a small modeling file.

Probably much safer to use your method, although I could tell you some stories involving a slipped X-acto knife blade with less than favorable results (on the model and my thumb). A dab of paint with the one foot rule might be the best bet after all?

Chris Montgomery
01-11-2014, 10:21
May I trouble the original poster for some more details about this sculpt? How long did the modifications take? How did you get the rigging done (purchased it, made it?) (links to places to purchase/make it?)? How did you attach the ratlines? Did you make the flags? How? I really love this style you've got, and any details you care to share on how to do this (or even just a link to somewhere that details how) would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers! The model looks beautiful.

Nightmoss
01-11-2014, 15:35
May I trouble the original poster for some more details about this sculpt? How long did the modifications take? How did you get the rigging done (purchased it, made it?) (links to places to purchase/make it?)? How did you attach the ratlines? Did you make the flags? How? I really love this style you've got, and any details you care to share on how to do this (or even just a link to somewhere that details how) would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers! The model looks beautiful.

Hi Chris,

The sculpt is the from the Sails of Glory 'Starter Set', HMS Terpsichore: http://www.aresgames.eu/games/sails-of-glory-line/sails-of-glory-starter-set

It took approximately two evenings of work to get both the painting and rigging done, but I think you could shorten this up, by using different methods of rigging and/or details on painting. There's a paint brush bristle method talked about here: http://www.sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?1547-How-To-Rig-a-SGN-ship-the-paint-brush-method&highlight=bristle

I followed the basic 'standing rigging' instructions from Rod Langton's book, "Assembly, Painting & Rigging of Napoleonic Naval Models in Scale 1:1200". You can get that from either Langton Miniatures http://www.rodlangton.com/napoleonic/frame.htm or Waterloo Minis http://waterloominis.com/oscommerce/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=242

Brass ratlines are available from Langton's or Waterloo Minis, but our leader here (Keith) is most likely going to offer stainless steel ratlines with an exact fit for the SoG ships. The ratlines are attached using super glue.
http://waterloominis.com/oscommerce/catalog/index.php?cPath=22_45

Here's a link to the new stuff 'in the works': http://www.sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?1636-Photo-Etched-Brass-Ratlines&highlight=paintbrush

Flags again are from Langton's, available from them or Waterloo Minis (US distributor).
http://waterloominis.com/oscommerce/catalog/index.php?cPath=22_23_55

There are many 'how to' resources here at SoG Anchoragae, but a lot got lost in the hack that happened some weeks back. Rory's step by step method to build a 1/1200 was a great reference. Vol's got a blog that has a wealth of information too. Shortly after I joined here, but before I started asking questions a source I found to be very helpful is linked off the Maine Wargamer's website. It's also been posted here previously I believe:
http://www.sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?122-Building-and-painting-the-HMS-Sovereign

Hope this helps? Cheers.
Jim

Chris Montgomery
01-11-2014, 15:54
Thanks so much! I will repost this to BGG, where there are several interested persons who would like to know where/how you updated this fine model.

Thanks again.

AlyssaFaden
01-16-2014, 10:17
AH GADAGGANNIT! These are too freaking beautiful, now I *HAVE* to do mine! I was somewhat vacillating due to lack of time and not knowing wtf I am doing with the rigging, but the visual result of your work is BEAUTIFUL. Now I have to follow suit and get my 'toys' up to snuff!!!

Nightmoss
01-16-2014, 12:10
AH GADAGGANNIT! These are too freaking beautiful, now I *HAVE* to do mine! I was somewhat vacillating due to lack of time and not knowing wtf I am doing with the rigging, but the visual result of your work is BEAUTIFUL. Now I have to follow suit and get my 'toys' up to snuff!!!

If you do please share your work with some photos (I've been enjoying your posts on mission/campaign planning!). Honestly, I'm probably spending too much time on this and should look for a way to enhance without going over the top. Storage of the minis with the rigging and ratlines in place has become an issue, so taking them out to play will also be something to think on. I'll probably do a couple more to see how the bigger SoL's look, but I'm inclined to hold back until Keith's custom fit ratlines become available.

AlyssaFaden
01-16-2014, 12:14
Yeah the custom fit ratlines I will be jumping onto for sure the minute that they become available. I'm going to get something worked up in the interim though in the same way that it was done here, just to get a feel for things.

Storage has been something I have thought about. I have a pretty large miniatures display case and I suspect that one shelf is going to be dedicated to these ships vs. whatever is on there right now. I have been storing them in their boxes on a shelf, but naturally that will not be an option if I go down this route. Pictures for sure!!!

7eat51
01-16-2014, 12:23
Based on your comments about rigging and storage, I think one set will be painted, but not rigged. This will be the set I take to cons. I will keep one untouched ship for cons so people can see the difference and know what they would get if they bought the ships.

If a good traveling/storage solution becomes available, then full enhancements on all the ships is much more palatable.

You ruined any thought of keeping the ships as is, Jim. Your work is definitely inspiring.

Nightmoss
01-16-2014, 12:55
Based on your comments about rigging and storage, I think one set will be painted, but not rigged. This will be the set I take to cons. I will keep one untouched ship for cons so people can see the difference and know what they would get if they bought the ships.

If a good traveling/storage solution becomes available, then full enhancements on all the ships is much more palatable.

You ruined any thought of keeping the ships as is, Jim. Your work is definitely inspiring.

Until Keith or others come up with a storage solution I'm probably going back to the wooden box idea. The problem is going to be keeping them attached to the bottom. Adding magnets to the underside of the base corners might work, but I don't want to increase base thickness with magnetic sheets. Keeping the ships attached firmly to the bases is something else I have to improve, especially when they're rigged. Otherwise I'll do what Alyssa is doing and keep them in a display cabinet with my 1/1200's.

I like your idea of having ships painted without rigging for travel purposes, but then how many more ships will I end up with, keeping in mind that all ship/cards are two sided?

Have you or Sue started any painting work yet? The work Chris did on the Goliath was great and I hope others will start posting some photos too.

AlyssaFaden
01-16-2014, 12:59
I don't have the bases with me, but aren't they hollow on the back? I wonder if a strip magnet could work without thickening the base?

Nightmoss
01-16-2014, 13:05
I don't have the bases with me, but aren't they hollow on the back? I wonder if a strip magnet could work without thickening the base?

They are, and I'm thinking a very short cylindrical magnet glued into the four under side corners might work. But they'll have to be same depth as the undersized space, if you can visualize what I'm saying?

GrouperKicker
01-16-2014, 13:32
They are, and I'm thinking a very short cylindrical magnet glued into the four under side corners might work. But they'll have to be same depth as the undersized space, if you can visualize what I'm saying?

I think that might work well! You can buy rare earth magnets in all sorts of width/height and I bet you could find one to fit near perfectly.

AlyssaFaden
01-16-2014, 13:37
That could work. I'm semi concerned about the magnet thickness and strength, and was thinking about something like this myself: http://www.amazon.com/Magnum-Magnetics-Corp-Adhesive-Magnetic/dp/B00114LU8K

The Royal Hajj
01-16-2014, 13:44
The metal tray with magnets has it's own set of drawbacks, especially if you are traveling with your game (even to the FLGS). Most require some type of heavy wooden box, you'll need pretty strong magnets (most likely RE) which adds a good deal to the expense if you end up needing one than one per ship. the metal tray can also rust or oxidize on you, and there is no protection at all for the ships when the tray is outside the box.

unfortunately, there's no perfect storage solution :(

Cool Breeze
01-16-2014, 14:14
I don't know if I would use a Dremel...one slip and you've scarred your model badly. After clipping the mast off, I would use a small chisel shaped X-acto knife blade to carefully remove the bump or a small modeling file.

Dremel slip = serendipitous battle damage.
x-acto Knife slip = can't afford wave 2 and 3 ships while you pay off the surgeon bills for thumb reattachment. :thumbsup:

Edit to add...

Great touch-up Jim. Almost makes me wish I had a, "Sue" like Eric. But, I married a model, not a modeler, which has its own rewards, plus she is a gamer, a sports fan, and a terrific cook, so I had to give something up, right? :sly:

GrouperKicker
01-16-2014, 14:24
The metal tray with magnets has it's own set of drawbacks, especially if you are traveling with your game (even to the FLGS). Most require some type of heavy wooden box, you'll need pretty strong magnets (most likely RE) which adds a good deal to the expense if you end up needing one than one per ship. the metal tray can also rust or oxidize on you, and there is no protection at all for the ships when the tray is outside the box.

unfortunately, there's no perfect storage solution :(

I've used similar methods for carting GW (fragile plastic skeletons) and Dystopian Wars models and was able to use sterilite/plastic boxes with a piece of metal sheeting at the bottom. I've been able to find RE magnets online or on ebay for a decent price. I haven't had any issues with oxidation... yet.