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Diamondback
01-04-2014, 23:17
Since I had mentioned the idea of custom-cards for unprinted sisters of confirmed sculpts, and a few folks seemed supportive, I thought I'd toss up a thread to open up discussion.

First thing I'd like to propose is "Upgrade Cards"--a lot of ships had extra small guns added to the quarterdecks and forecastles, but I'm assuming the Ares stats are for as-built "baseline". Also, I'm going to ask for suggestions on unique abilities, positive or negative, for each ship... until the Wave 2 ship-list is officially announced I'm keeping this to the Wave 1 sculpts only. As usual, Bold is "Side A", Italic is "Side B", an arrow ("->") means captured and recommissioned under new flag.

SGN101 1777 Concorde 32...
Existing ships (1777 Concorde class): Concorde->later HMS Concorde, Courageuse, Hermione
" (1777 Charmante class): Junon, Gracieuse re '95 Unite->later HMS Unite, Inconstante
Unprinted sisters:
-1777 Concorde: later HMS Courageuse
-1777 Charmante: Charmante
-1777 Charmante: Inconstante->later HMS Convert
-1777 Charmante: Hélene->later Spanish Sirena
-1777 Charmante: Variante
-1777 Magicienne: 1777 Magicienne->1781 HMS Magicienne
-1777 Magicienne: 1778 Précieuse
-1777 Magicienne: 1779 Sérieuse
-1777 Magicienne: 1779 Lutine->1793 HMS Lutine
-1777 Magicienne: 1781 Vestale->1799 capt UK, recommissioning uncertain
-1777 Magicienne: 1781 Alceste->1799 HMS Alceste
-1777 Magicienne: 1782 Iris
-1777 Magicienne: 1787 Réunion->1793 HMS Reunion
-1777 Magicienne: 1787 Modeste->1793 HMS Modeste
-1777 Magicienne: 1788 Sensible->1798 HMS Sensible
-1777 Magicienne: 1791 Topaze->1793 HMS Topaze
-1777 Magicienne: 1794 Artémise
-1777 Magicienne (GB clone): 1807 HMS Hyperion
-1777 Magicienne (GB clone): 1808 HMS Bucephalus


I'll add the other classes and notes on rearmaments later, but since they have a weird re-logon schedule here I wanted to get what I had up before anything nuked what I had.

Diamondback
01-04-2014, 23:17
SGN102 1782 Temeraire 74...
Existing ships: 1784 Commerce de Bordeaux/later Timoleon, 1785 Fougueux, 1785 Genereux, 1788 Duguay-Trouin, 1791 Redoutable, America->1796 HMS Impetueux, Spartiate->HMS Spartiate, Aquilon

The reprints on this sculpt could be a thread of their own... I'll start adding them later.

Diamondback
01-04-2014, 23:18
SGN103 1773 Amazon 32...

Existing ships: 1773 HMS Ambuscade->FR 1798 Embuscade->1803 HMS Ambuscade, 1779 HMS Cleopatra, 1780 HMS Juno, 1781 HMS Iphigenia, 1781 HMS Success->FR 1801 Succes->1801 HMS Success, 1782 HMS Castor, 1782 HMS Meleager, 1785 HMS Terpsichore

Unprinted sisters:
-1773-1781 HMS Thetis
-1773-1794 HMS Amazon
-1780-1796 HMS Amphion
-1780-1807 HMS Orpheus
-1781-1811 HMS Andromache
-1782-1822 HMS Syren
-1783-1808 HMS Greyhound
-1783-1833 HMS Iris
-1785-1809 HMS Solebay
-1787-1805 HMS Blonde?

Diamondback
01-04-2014, 23:18
SGN104 Slade Common 74...

Existing ships: 1760 HMS Bellona, 1763 HMS Defence, 1775 HMS Berwick->FR 1795 Berwick, 1781 HMS Goliath, 1783 HMS Defiance, 1786 HMS Bellerophon, 1787 HMS Vanguard, 1787 HMS Swiftsure->FR 1801 Swiftsure
Unprinted sisters and relatives:
Bellona 74
-1760 Dragon
-1760 Superb
-1762 Kent
Arrogant 74
-1761 Arrogant
-1761 Cornwall
Edgar 74
-1779 Edgar
-1785 Zealous
-1785 Audacious
-1786 Elephant
-1786 Saturn
-1787 Excellent
-1789 Illustrious
Ramillies 74
-1763 Ramillies
-1765 Monarch
-1766 Magnificent
-1767 Marlborough
Mod Ramillies 74
-1762 Terrible
-1764 Russell
-1764 Robust
-1765 Invincible
-1765 Prince of Wales
one-off 1768 HMS Egmont 74
Elizabeth 74
-1769 Elizabeth
-1770 Resolution
-1774 Cumberland
-1782 Bombay Castle
-1783 Powerful
Culloden 74
-1776 Culloden
-1783 Thunderer
-1784 Venerable
-1785 Victorious
-1785 Ramillies
-1785 Terrible
-1786 Hannibal->1801 FR Annibal
-1786 Theseus
?St. Albans 64
-1763 Augusta
-1764 St. Albans
-1784 Director

Another family of classes that could be a thread of their own. By my calculations, the St. Albans is a 575# broadside to Bellona's 1481#, about 38.8% the weight though not much smaller as a ship--a new SOG sculpt for them would be ~2mm shorter and less than 1mm narrower.

Diamondback
01-04-2014, 23:18
Reserved for Wave 2 Ocean 110's.

Diamondback
01-04-2014, 23:19
Reserved for Wave 2 British First Rates.

Diamondback
01-04-2014, 23:19
Reserved for Wave 2 Hebe frigates.

Sculpt appropriate for:
FR Hebe
FR Hortense
FR Virginie
FR Pallas
UK Leda (except Seppings round-stern variant)

Diamondback
01-04-2014, 23:19
Reserved for Wave 2 Swan sloops.

Diamondback
01-04-2014, 23:19
Reserved for Victory.

Diamondback
01-04-2014, 23:20
Reserved for Constitution.

HMS Lydia
01-07-2014, 11:45
Just uploaded 9 Amazon Class frigate expansion cards (all except Blonde).

Diamondback
01-07-2014, 15:05
Thanks, Bob! Once they're approved, I'll edit the listing to add links, and I'll mark custom cards with underlining and blue text. :)

Just a note for reference... Right now my Wave 1 Reprints spreadsheet is at over 230 lines of ship entries, and the first 102 are the 1773 Amazon, 1777 Concorde and Slade 74 sculpts--EVERYTHING else is Temeraire variants, and I haven't finished feeding those in yet, so that should give everybody some idea of just how many potential reprints there are. (I keep one row per flag commissioned under, renames are grouped along with the first name of commission under that flag.) This also does not include Victory and Constitution--I have them on a separate tab.

Hmmm... looks like I'll need to add "Official Card" and "Custom Card" columns...

HMS Lydia
01-08-2014, 07:56
Diamondback, these are just cards for the bases. Very generic, just changed the names. Since I'm not using the ship logs that came with the game, I just had top produce a ship chart for each of the base cards.

HMS Lydia
01-08-2014, 08:54
Cards are up in the files section.

Diamondback
01-08-2014, 15:07
Good to know--if anybody can think of any stat tweaks for sisters, this is also the place to suggest those. :)

HMS Lydia
01-10-2014, 05:58
Put up a corrected Amazon Class Frigate Base Card set. The initial set the ship names faded at the bottom when you printed them. I fixed this issue in the corrected copy. Als, put up Arrogant and Elizabeth class SoL Base cards. Working on the first Temeraire group now. They're done, I just need to verify the sizing on the cards.

By the way a pen vice works well for drilling the center hole on these. Allows for very precise placement and gives a very smooth hole.

By the way, I wonder if the Amazon class mini would work for Active Class frigates as well? The way I see it the weight of the broadside was slightly different (Active class 318lbs, Amazon 282lbs, it seems like Fire Power is broadside weight divided by 100 rounded to nearest 100). There was only about 12 tons difference in displacement, and only 1 foot difference in length.

Diamondback
01-10-2014, 13:32
Bob, I'll look into the Actives--I've been trying to limit myself to ships that are close relatives, like how the basic Bellona design successively evolved through all those derivative classes listed above, though it is interesting to note that they went almost all the way back to the beginning for design on the last Slade 74's built. Generally, at least I'm looking for same designer as a start point--the reason I'm a LITTLE more comfortable grouping French together is that their naval practice had the Marine Ministry define a package of measurements and proportions and tell designers like Sane and the Coulombs and the Chevillards, "within these criteria how you do structural details is up to you, but you will design a ship to these exact proportions"--and they were detailed down to dictating the space between gunports, angle of stem and stern rake, you name it... The impression I get is that British engineering has differences more on the Structural level for ships of same rating and time, while French competing designs seem to differ more on a Cosmetic level, mainly in the areas of the beakhead and stern gallery if I'm reading the draughts and data in Boudriot right.

Looking at 'em in ThreeDecks, Active and Amazon are statistically near identical except 30 more crew and 18 vs 24pdr carronades... my worry is that they may not be as visually similar within that envelope as we might like. For example, the F-14 Tomcat, F-15B/D/E Eagle, MiG-25/MiG-31 Foxbat/Foxhound, and Sukhoi Flanker family are all twin-engine, twin-tail, tandem-seat delta-wing fighters of roughly similar overall layout, but they all have very BIG visual differences from each other... I worry that we might do something akin to trying to pass an F-15 off as a Foxbat, and frankly think it may have already been done with a couple of the Side B's in Wave 2. (But, as I'm under NDA, I'll say no more about that matter until the ship list including the B Sides is released.)
EDIT July 2014: The cases I refer to here are Ville de Paris and Hibernia, though I'm a little less uneasy now that I've read the BWAS commentary on 'em.

HMS Lydia
01-10-2014, 14:05
The paint jobs on the Captured French SoL's make them look like large frigates. I want to take them out of the box and look at them more closely. But I do agree with what your saying. It seems that one basic model form was used for several classes of ship in this first release.

Diamondback
01-10-2014, 14:25
You're right--the SGN104 sculpt is being sold with names from the Bellona, Edgar and Elizabeth classes, which I don't have a problem with as they're all known to be refinements of the same basic design. SGN101 has Concorde-class names on Side A and Charmante-class on Side B--see previous comment about French design practice, and since the men who designed the two classes were brothers, probably educated the same places and thought alike I'd consider it not too far a stretch that they might've compared notes and influenced each other's designs.

SGN102... well, when Andrea asked for advice I told him his first places to check should be paintings from the time these ships existed, along with eyewitness accounts of battles. You might shoot him a note asking about the British Temeraires...

The Mad Hatter
01-10-2014, 20:59
Speaking of cards....perhaps I should try my hand at making some generic cards for the various classes I can put names on. Have to get my game first!