Flipping cards, or buying two ships?

[The Royal Hajj]

It might still be a little early for many of us to know which way we will go on this topic, but I"m curious what people are thinking about doing. Are you planning on having two miniatures so you can feild both the A and B side of each card, or will you just flip the card over as needed?

[Gunner]

I'll have a ship for each card, with minor changes for the flip side ship

[Coog]

It would depend on the ship for me. Some I would be satisfied with one ship and others I would want multiple ships. For example I would want multiple British 38's as there are many times more than one would be used in game. A British 64, one would be enough.

[Diamondback]

Doubletap of everything except the uniques.

[Andy Blozinski]

I'll have to wait to see if the flip side of the card has any significant difference.

[Tommy Z]

I'll make do with one for now. I'm going to wait and see how big our games get. We have several sets between us here in Columbus and can flip as needed.

[GreenLaborMike]

I pledged at Commodore level, and I plan to keep at least one set of 16 ships. Unless something very unexpected happens, I don't anticipate needing more than 4 Frigates or 4 SOL's on a side in a single battle.

[Nightmoss]

Ship for each card is my plan, but plans might change once I get the game components in hand.

[Comte de Brueys]

Besides my WoG purchases, the size of my fleet will not be that huge.

Normaly a reason to flip the ship's cards, but I think I'll make a decision for the cooler/better name and keep this side for gaming.

[Capn Duff]

A ship for each side for me, well that's the intention anyway

[GrouperKicker]

I'll need to get the 8 ships not included in the LT KS backer package before I even consider a second version of the ships. And heck... soon after that happens wave 2 will be taking pre-orders!!!

[7eat51]

In making history, a Chicagoan not only did not vote more than once in a single election, but abstained from voting. Until I have the game in hand, and a better idea of what will be useful at cons, I don't know how I will utilize the double-sided cards. Since I am in at the Commodore level, I believe I can play both sides with the ships I have, correct?

[Gunner]

In making history, a Chicagoan not only did not vote more than once in a single election, but abstained from voting. Until I have the game in hand, and a better idea of what will be useful at cons, I don't know how I will utilize the double-sided cards. Since I am in at the Commodore level, I believe I can play both sides with the ships I have, correct?

Correct. Minor ship changes (or not so minor) for the flip side.

[csadn]

I already have a small fleet for both UK and France (one each side: 4-ship SoL squadron, 4-ship frigate squadron)....

[Naharaht]

I will wait and see.

[Toothless9]

Sixteen ships is enough for me. If I get my sons to play and we all controlled 4 ships apiece, I would be using everything I own and the battle would be extremely crowded. I don't see this happening. I may get the victory and the constitution when they are released but that's about it. I'd much rather keep buying WGF airplanes. Bring on series 7 and series 8, which reminds me I must place my order at the Aerodrome!

[Cpt Kangaroo]

I will have a mini for each card, plus if they ever come out with new cards for the same class, I will do the same.

I am not a real fan of swapping bits, that is where damage occurs.

Some small distinctive change will be needed to make it stand out as a different ship though.

I will wait and see what is the best way to achieve this.

[Jack Aubrey]

I'll have to wait to see if the flip side of the card has any significant difference.

Me too

[RichardPF]

Wait...

Are you saying ONLY ONE ship for each card side?

[Andy Blozinski]

Wait...

Are you saying ONLY ONE ship for each card side?
Each ship card that comes with one mini has two sides. What they are saying is that you buy two copies of the same mini, one for each side of the card. Obviously you also end up with two identical two sided cards since you bought two minis. The point is that you use one identical mini for one side and the other identical mini for the other side.
From a basic practical point of view, this makes sense if you want to use the ships on both sides of the card in the same battle.
From another point of view, it might make sense for wear and tear purposes. You're not swapping out parts. It's minor, but it's not without merit.

[The Royal Hajj]

I'm pretty sure Bruce was speaking in jest with the size of his KS order. lol

Another merit to the "ship for every card side" is that you could semi-permanently attach your ship to the base, making for a more secure storage solution.

[Diamondback]

Hell, with the size of HIS order I wouldn't be surprised if Bruce started creating his own custom cards to fill out the classes' unprinted sisters.

[Gunner]

Hell, with the size of HIS order I wouldn't be surprised if Bruce started creating his own custom cards to fill out the classes' unprinted sisters.

Hope he does, I'll be his first customer.

[RichardPF]

I'm pretty sure Bruce was speaking in jest with the size of his KS order. lol

Another merit to the "ship for every card side" is that you could semi-permanently attach your ship to the base, making for a more secure storage solution.


Hell, with the size of HIS order I wouldn't be surprised if Bruce started creating his own custom cards to fill out the classes' unprinted sisters.


Hope he does, I'll be his first customer.

Yes, it was definitely an attempt at humor.

As some on this site know, I went a bit, pardon the expression, overboard with my original KS pledge and then again with the extras.

[Andy Blozinski]

I'm pretty sure Bruce was speaking in jest with the size of his KS order. lol

Another merit to the "ship for every card side" is that you could semi-permanently attach your ship to the base, making for a more secure storage solution.
I would think you would only have to permanently attach it to the clear plastic part if you wanted something 100% secure. This way you could still flip the card.
Keith: It looks like Litko stopped making his ship bases with etched wakes. This is a product you could offer sized specifically for SoG.

[Coog]

I would think you would only have to permanently attach it to the clear plastic part if you wanted something 100% secure. This way you could still flip the card.
Keith: It looks like Litko stopped making his ship bases with etched wakes. This is a product you could offer sized specifically for SoG.

Seems like the etched waves would make reading the card difficult, that is if it is clear plastic and goes on top of the card?

[Andy Blozinski]

Seems like the etched waves would make reading the card difficult, that is if it is clear plastic and goes on top of the card?
If only the wake is etched, it won't seriously block anything, but it will certainly increase the coolness factor.

[Coog]

If only the wake is etched, it won't seriously block anything, but it will certainly increase the coolness factor.

Would be worth a try using one. I wonder if any Anchorage members has one of the Litko bases so we could see how it looks?

[Nightmoss]

Would be worth a try using one. I wonder if any Anchorage members has one of the Litko bases so we could see how it looks?

I just received some custom Litko bases to use with my Langton 1/1200 ships. They're black opaque plastic 1/8" thick; 3 sizes for the various ships I'll be mounting on the water bases, which then go on top of the Litko base. If you want I can take some photos tomorrow to show you how they look?

[The Royal Hajj]

I would think you would only have to permanently attach it to the clear plastic part if you wanted something 100% secure. This way you could still flip the card.
Keith: It looks like Litko stopped making his ship bases with etched wakes. This is a product you could offer sized specifically for SoG.

The issue with only attaching it to the clear cover is that the cover is then not securely attached to the rest of the base. That and the peg goes through both of them.

I can look into adding some etching to a clear cover. My own idea I've been kicking around ever since I got the first prototype ship was sculpted base either cast in resin or 3D printed. The firing arcs and wind gauges would be recessed into the sculpt. They would have to be painted by the customer and producing them would be a big project, so it's still in the idea phase.

[David Manley]

If only the wake is etched, it won't seriously block anything, but it will certainly increase the coolness factor.

As long as it doesn't look like a wake that a speedboat would throw up :) I've seen some AoS models with wakes added that would look good streaming from a destroyer at 30 knots!

[Andy Blozinski]

As long as it doesn't look like a wake that a speedboat would throw up :) I've seen some AoS models with wakes added that would look good streaming from a destroyer at 30 knots!

Show me some good wakes. Top down would be best. I'm seriously contemplating getting some custom jobs from Litko. I've already emailed them. They stopped making the catalog items with wakes because he said everyone wanted them a different size. He said they are contemplating adding a basemaker option specifically for ship bases with a wake. For now he said he could make me some custom jobs if I tell him what I want.

[David Manley]

Here's a good one.....

http://images.lightstalkers.org/images/776733/691-21-DS.jpg

[Gunner]

How much horsepower is pushing that?

[David Manley]

A bit but not much. The wake would be OK for a ship under more sail than she is carrying. Haven't found a decent top down photo of a ship purely under sail yet but then it is NYD and I only have a phone so searching is not as easy as it could be :)

The trick though is "understated"

[Coog]

Here's another photo. Not quite directly overhead.

8087

[Andy Blozinski]

Interesting. It looks like mainly what you see is in the front. I'm thinking maybe get a good bow crest etched and then have a long stern wake etched. Hull length is not important because a long ship could simply cover up part of a long etched stern wake. I'll email Litko and have them send me photos of what they used to have since they don't have them as a reference on the web site any more.

[The Royal Hajj]

Interesting. It looks like mainly what you see is in the front. I'm thinking maybe get a good bow crest etched and then have a long stern wake etched. Hull length is not important because a long ship could simply cover up part of a long etched stern wake. I'll email Litko and have them send me photos of what they used to have since they don't have them as a reference on the web site any more.

The width of the stern wake might matter as it could be coming out the sides of shorter ships or as a stream out the back of longer ships. If they send you photos, can you please share them. I've never seen them either... trying to decide how well 2D etch would work for wake.

[The Royal Hajj]

Humm, just had a thought....

If etching can make a nice looking wake effect, I should be able to do the etching right on top of the clear plastic cover that come with the ships. That way one would not need an entirely new base and it would fit in 100% with every other ship you might game with.

[Andy Blozinski]

I would likely just glue the ship to the etched base, but Litko can make them with a peg hole.

[Coog]

I would likely just glue the ship to the etched base, but Litko can make them with a peg hole.

Even if the bases didn't have a peg hole, it seems like it wouldn't be that much trouble to drill them yourself if you wanted them.

[Andy Blozinski]

8095Jim at Litko did not have any photos of the old wake bases. He did have a photo of a base they make for another game. I've attached it to this posting.

[fredmiracle]

Regarding the original topic, if the ships were significantly different in stats, I'd be tempted to have two so they could both play in a battle. But since all the ships in a class appear to be fairly interchangeable, one of each should be plenty.

It was easy to justify doing a little extra stocking up via the KS, since the first wave were all great bread and butter ships to fill out a basic fleet quickly. From here, though, I think I can be a little more selective. I might very well buy doubles on the sloops in wave 2, while leaving off some of the first-raters all together...

[Diamondback]

Speaking of custom cards, I started a thread where we can discuss stretching the existing sculpts to sister-ships and near-sisters...

So far it's a lot of placeholders for the Wave 1 and 2 sculpts, but it's at http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?1930-Thoughts-on-Custom-Cards

[The Royal Hajj]

8095

Jim at Litko did not have any photos of the old wake bases. He did have a photo of a base they make for another game. I've attached it to this posting.

Humm, hard to tell from that photo, but I'm not overly impressed.

[HMS Lydia]

I like the idea of larger battles and multiple games, perhaps at conventions. So, I want a ship for each side of the card. I would also like to get extras and make some custom cards. There were quite a few Amazon class frigates, Bellona class & Elizabeth class SoL's and there were tons of Temeraire class SoL's.

[HMS Lydia]

Speaking of custom cards, I started a thread where we can discuss stretching the existing sculpts to sister-ships and near-sisters...

So far it's a lot of placeholders for the Wave 1 and 2 sculpts, but it's at http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?1930-Thoughts-on-Custom-Cards

Cool! Are we going to be able to post them?

[The Royal Hajj]

Cool! Are we going to be able to post them?

Yes, as they are not a replacement for a component that Ares makes. They have specifically stated that cards and stats for ships they do not yet make are just fine. Should they make a ship in the future that we have already done a custom card for, we would simply remove the custom at that point.

[Diamondback]

Update: With the issues I've been having with some cards fitting poorly into the bases, I'm glad I decided not to fight with flipping.

Re deletion of customs... if the stats are different and they're clearly a different fit for the same ship (say, Ares does an official mixed-battery Egmont and we already have the 1783 all-carronade load as a custom) then can the variant stay with a note about why it differs?

[The Royal Hajj]

Update: With the issues I've been having with some cards fitting poorly into the bases, I'm glad I decided not to fight with flipping.

Re deletion of customs... if the stats are different and they're clearly a different fit for the same ship (say, Ares does an official mixed-battery Egmont and we already have the 1783 all-carronade load as a custom) then can the variant stay with a note about why it differs?

As long as it is pointed out that it is not an official card, I think that should be fine. In fact, perhaps we should decide on some type of logo or change in color/design for the custom cards. That way it would be easy for players to know the difference at a glance.

[Diamondback]

How 'bout just putting the Anchrage logo on the corner of each card and log section?

[The Royal Hajj]

How 'bout just putting the Anchrage logo on the corner of each card and log section?

Sounds like good solution to me.

[John Paul]

Hope he does, I'll be his first customer.

Then I would be his second customer!!

[Haggisblower]

I'm happy just to have one for now but if I have the pennies I'll get two

[Amara]

They have specifically stated that cards and stats for ships they do not yet make are just fine. Should they make a ship in the future that we have already done a custom card for, we would simply remove the custom at that point.

If they themselves made up packs of extra ship cards to fill out the rest of each class (with stat boards for ships whose ratings vary), that would be the single most effective thing that they could do to get me to buy more ships. I only have GFOJ, Cape St. V, and Trafalgar in my Spreadsheet of Doom so far, but it's already telling me that I need nine more Temeraires. I'm holding fire on snagging more of them, in case there are more repaints coming as filler between waves of actual new sculpts. With cards for the ships I need for particular battles already in hand, I wouldn't have a reason to wait.

(My real answer to this poll is "A ship mini for both sides still doesn't give me enough 74s. I can has moar, plz?")

[Diamondback]

Susan, I've been working with another member who stages Very Large Battles (he did Nile last year and is doing GFOJ this year), and if you're game for it it might be interesting to compare notes. I've tackled Trafalgar+Ortegal and the Indian Ocean Campaign solo so far on research... lots of things I'm still trying to run down draughts and cluster into sculpts.

Full disclosure: I have an idea for a line of books I'm trying to get Ares to buy...

[Bligh]

Mostly managing with one ship and flipping, but am just starting to duplicate models to bulk up my fleets.
Rob.

[7eat51]

Doing the ship logs the past few hours, I became more aware of the subtle differences of some of the pairings. I didn't pay attention to them before. I still use the side I originally set. In the future, I will pay more attention.

[TexaS]

I buy several of the same ship and make my own cards with new names.

[Dr.Maturin]

I bought two pairs of ships with broken mast from Keith; this not only means I do not have to flip on these ships but it also saved me around £38.00 (including postage) on UK prices. The repair of broken masts was so easy I wish now I had bought more. I think that if I can afford it I would try for duplicate ships as a matter of course.
I'm currently throwing out heavy hints for Christmas pressies. I need four British 100 Gun S o L and one more French 74 to round out my Fleet.

[Bligh]

I Agree Reg.
I bought what I could afford from Keith, and have found them such a boon, that I wish I had overextended my budget when I ordered. The pairings substantially extended the size of my squadron, and at the same time allowed me to depict ships with damage.
Rob.

[Naharaht]

I have two of some ship models, mostly ones I found at a reduced price, although I did buy two HMS Victory's and two USS Constitution's.

[7eat51]

I have found that with the folks for whom I run games, almost any ship could do. That has kept me from feeling the need for multiples of ships. What I would like is a broader array of ships regarding classes so as to create varying scenarios. I think with WoG I am more inclined to have the full variety of paint schemes, including repaints, because once the game starts, the color schemes of the planes are more pronounced than the ships due to the angle of looking at the game pieces on the table.

As an amateur collector, I would like to have one of each sculpt, but even here I have not bought each released paint yet.

As for military history, there are a few ships that I am keenly interested in, whereas with WoG, there are whole squadrons, etc., that I wouldn't mind having.

[Union Jack]

Two if not more of each 74, you can't have too many 74's. Others, I think there are enough for me to have 1 of each (ie the frigates and sloops).

[Bligh]

I am just annoyed that I did not understand the ideas behind the Kickstarter and thus missed out on those ships.
Rob.

[Capn Duff]

In the end I have two of every official ship except the reprinted British frigate and the Victory and Constitution, luckily I did get the KS exclusives twice and now thinking of getting another USS Constitution after seeing DM's HMS President repaint at Doncaster

[David Manley]

I have one of each shp plus a few duplicates, mostly frigates. I don't see SGN as a fleet action game so I regard hordes of 74s as rather pointless. Happy to flip cards as necessary.

[TexaS]

Two if not more of each 74, you can't have too many 74's. Others, I think there are enough for me to have 1 of each (ie the frigates and sloops).


I have one of each shp plus a few duplicates, mostly frigates. I don't see SGN as a fleet action game so I regard hordes of 74s as rather pointless. Happy to flip cards as necessary.

SGN or not, these are my ships to play any naval napoleonic battle with and due to that I have hoards (or a little over 30) of 74s.

[Killick]

I tend to go for 2 ships for the different cards eg Thorn + Atlanta.