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View Full Version : House Rule Ruminations - Small Ship Gunnery vs. Big Ships



David Manley
10-31-2013, 01:43
It seems a little incongruous that, chit for chit a frigate armed with 12pdr guns can cause the same degree of damage to a first rate as a ship of the line with 32pdrs. The number of chits drawn reflects weight of fire, the target burthen reflects damage withstand, but the damaging potential of different types of ordnance could be better represented. Here's an idea on how to cover this, if one so chooses.

Ships armed with 12pdr guns (light frigates or smaller) ignore damage chits of 3+ when firing at ships of the line and 4+ when firing at heavy frigates (e.g. US 44s, RN 44 Razees)

Ships armed with 18pdr guns (medium frigates or smaller) ignore damage chits of 4+ when firing at ships of the line and 5+ when firing at heavy frigates (e.g. US 44s, RN 44 Razees)

These restrictions do not apply when stern raking

"Ignored" chits are returned to the chit pool

This is just an early idea, thoughts and suggestions welcomed.:salute:

Berthier
10-31-2013, 02:42
I like this David. Short of having damage chits pulled from separate draw piles by class this would work with little extra to remember. We might need a "house rule" section where things like signals, visibility and gunnery results are all kept in their "final" or most recent form. So not a discussion forum which would be done elsewhere, rather a current accepted set of house rules.

Comte de Brueys
10-31-2013, 06:29
...

"Ignored" chits are returned to the chit pool

This is just an early idea, thoughts and suggestions welcomed.:salute:

Good idea, David.

My first tought - when I read the sentence - was: ok then draw another chit.

But it makes sence to class this shot as "fired but without effect".

But you need enough chits to cancel the effect, that at an end of a lager battle only high damage chits are in the pool.

Avi
10-31-2013, 08:25
Good idea, David.

But you need enough chits to cancel the effect, that at an end of a lager battle only high damage chits are in the pool.

Very good catch...

Without seeing the chit distribution its hard to comment, but what about:
Capping instead of ignoring?

The number of chits represents gun numbers, the capping at certain value destructive power?

7eat51
10-31-2013, 09:14
Intriguing idea. At present, I am in favor of capping over ignoring. From the few games I have been a part of already, SoLs have taken out frigates rather easily; to reduce the few high number hits a frigate might do to zero would handicap the frigates even more. Would it be worth it to have different cups of damage chits based on gun size?

Could higher number chits be viewed as lucky shots?

It will be nice to have everything at hand. I am looking forward to seeing a growing list of house rules.

The Mad Hatter
10-31-2013, 12:27
What about chits from the other two sets - C&D? Might look at those. Since I expect them to be lighter on the numbers, higher on the special damage (i.e. crew, sails) - you could look at say using those decks and ignoring special damage markers potentially? Not having seen them, just a random idea.

I do like the idea though, as 12 pounder long guns shouldn't be nearly as effective as 32 pounder long guns. If you are going to run down this path, and differentiate between guns, one thing you might consider is carronades and French obusier de vaisseaus? Many frigates had 12 or 18 pounder long guns on their lower deck, with 32 pound carronades on the top. 12 pounders had longer range, 32 pounders were there for punch.

Do you say frigates for example have maybe the C or D damage counters at long range (minus special damage?) and normal broadsides at short range to account for the heavier carronades? I think there's a lot of house rules that could be developed to better differentiate the weight and types of guns found on these ships!

David Manley
10-31-2013, 14:37
Yes, carronades is another area where there is scope for some house ruling :)

csadn
10-31-2013, 16:53
. o O ( Typical Gamers -- bloody game hasn't even arrived yet, and already the rulebook's getting a hatchet taken to it.... :) )

David Manley
10-31-2013, 16:55
. o O ( Typical Gamers -- bloody game hasn't even arrived yet, and already the rulebook's getting a hatchet taken to it.... :) )

:happy::beer:

Gunner
10-31-2013, 17:41
. o O ( Typical Gamers -- bloody game hasn't even arrived yet, and already the rulebook's getting a hatchet taken to it.... :) )

Well said.

Until we get our hands on the game, we have plenty of time to sharpen the hatchet.

Diamondback
11-01-2013, 01:36
I seem to recall that in War at Sea, we had a mechanic for "Small Ship Evasion" where destroyers were essentially immune to battleship Main Gunnery attack at Extended Range, and some destroyers had a "Chase the Salvoes" ability to just ignore gunnery attacks made against them on a successful save-role.. Granted, most battleships had either Primary, Secondary and Tertiary gun attacks or a Primary, a Secondary and a special ability that let you make two Secondary attacks per turn, one each against two separate targets, but... it seems to me that something like that could be adapted here. Maybe Sloops and other small unrated ships are immune to SOL gunnery outside of Short range?

The Barrelman
11-01-2013, 09:00
I am getting Warhammer 40k flashback with the hit dice and "ignore rolls of..." stuff. I think that the size of guns are accounted for in the number of chits to draw balanced against burden. Didn't SOL obliterate Frigates in most engagements anyway during that time period?

Diamondback
11-01-2013, 09:20
Yes, Ted, which is why I said nothing about giving frigates any kind of "save roll". Just like how in the parallel I drew in WaS (and would have happened in an actual WWII engagement), battleships pound cruisers into scrap without breaking a sweat...

David Manley
11-01-2013, 11:42
I seem to recall that in War at Sea, we had a mechanic for "Small Ship Evasion" where destroyers were essentially immune to battleship Main Gunnery attack at Extended Range, and some destroyers had a "Chase the Salvoes" ability to just ignore gunnery attacks made against them on a successful save-role.. Granted, most battleships had either Primary, Secondary and Tertiary gun attacks or a Primary, a Secondary and a special ability that let you make two Secondary attacks per turn, one each against two separate targets, but... it seems to me that something like that could be adapted here. Maybe Sloops and other small unrated ships are immune to SOL gunnery outside of Short range?

For really small stuff thats not a bad idea, if not immune then the same "ignore 4+ chits" or something like that. Especially shooting against gunboats and the like.