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Gunner
10-30-2013, 09:06
Never having a SGN model in my hand, here are a few things Iím going to try if feasible.

Insert a thin piece of plastic or wire vertically into mast tops for flags and pennants.
Replace stern flag & pole with removable pole with paper flags to change countries.
Try using oversize 1/1200 Langton ratlines, i.e. 1st rate ratlines for 3rd rate ships.

Other ideas would be appreciated.

DeRuyter
10-30-2013, 09:22
I like your idea to switch out flags. I wonder if there is a way to hang the ensign (national flag) off the mizzen gaff where it should be! A pennant on the main could be useful to denote squadron commanders, very historical indeed!

I will do the ratlines which will hide the sail attachment points. One idea would be to use screen door material instead of the brass Langton ratlines. That way you can cut to fit the 1/1000 models. I have some of the old material that Langton sold before moving on to the brass sets.

Gunner
10-30-2013, 09:46
I wonder if there is a way to hang the ensign (national flag) off the mizzen gaff where it should be!

Looks like attaching the paper flag to a piece of thread running from end of the spanker gaff to the end of the spanker boom would work.

RichardPF
10-30-2013, 10:16
Never having a SGN model in my hand, here are a few things Iím going to try if feasible.

Insert a thin piece of plastic or wire vertically into mast tops for flags and pennants.
Replace stern flag & pole with removable pole with paper flags to change countries.
Try using oversize 1/1200 Langton ratlines, i.e. 1st rate ratlines for 3rd rate ships.

Other ideas would be appreciated.

I think that one thing I will try is to reduce/remove the material that is between the masts and the belly of the sails that is required by the molding process.

Gunner
10-30-2013, 10:35
I think that one thing I will try is to reduce/remove the material that is between the masts and the belly of the sails that is required by the molding process.

That's going to be tricky. I wonder how many sails I'll ruin before I get the knack, if I get the knack?

David Manley
10-30-2013, 12:54
Brown washing to bring out the details, light weathering and painting the yards too

RichardPF
10-30-2013, 13:43
That's going to be tricky. I wonder how many sails I'll ruin before I get the knack, if I get the knack?

I intend to try it right away.
Once I see the ships in "the plastic", I may decide that it is not as big a deal as I am expecting it will be.
Most of the marketing shots from Ares, however, seem to go to some lengths to be shot at angles to obscure this material so I am expecting it will be something worth addressing.

If I am successful (or even not), I will post the method I used.

Gunner
10-30-2013, 13:43
7439

Add stern #3 or quarter #4 davits and boats

DeRuyter
10-30-2013, 13:46
Looks like attaching the paper flag to a piece of thread running from end of the spanker gaff to the end of the spanker boom would work.

That's what I did with my Langton's but I like your idea if a detachable ensign to swap out nationalities.

I would also paint the spars as Dave noted.

7eat51
10-30-2013, 14:13
Until reading these posts, I did not remember the plastic between the masts and sails. I guess it wasn't an issue when playing this past weekend. I think adding some rigging, etc. might suffice for those who can't help but notice the plastic. I believe it is David who has mentioned the one-arm rule. To be honest, once the game began, the primary issue was telling the ships apart in terms of nationality. Any enhancement along those lines would have good return on investment, especially as several ships start gathering or the playing surface being larger than one or two Ares-size mats with only a couple of ships. This was one of the reasons folks mentioned liking the use of the Pirates of the Spanish Main ships. The little bit of rigging Keith did on some of the minis really enhanced the ships.

Having said all of this, I will try to do the following, try being the operative word until Sue takes over and does these right:

1. Enhance national identification via flags or some markings on the bases, especially for players that do not own the game.
2. Painting the sails.
3. Basic rigging/ratlines.

As far as any hull painting, it will depend upon what the production ships look like.

RichardPF
10-30-2013, 14:40
...To be honest, once the game began, the primary issue was telling the ships apart in terms of nationality. Any enhancement along those lines would have good return on investment, especially as several ships start gathering or the playing surface being larger than one or two Ares-size mats with only a couple of ships. ...

It seems I have read more than one account where telling friendly from enemy ship was part of the challenge in actual battles (not necessarily referring to Pierre Landais of Alliance here),
so perhaps this is an unintended realism touch.

7eat51
10-30-2013, 14:53
It seems I have read more than one account where telling friendly from enemy ship was part of the challenge in actual battles (not necessarily referring to Pierre Landais of Alliance here),
so perhaps this is an unintended realism touch.

I think this is an example where a quick change for player level could be appropriate. If gaming with new players or demoing at a con, some type of help distinguishing ships would be a good thing, as the players have many other items to consider. Maybe Ed's idea of attaching a paper flag that can easily be removed would suffice.

RichardPF
10-30-2013, 16:32
I think this is an example where a quick change for player level could be appropriate. If gaming with new players or demoing at a con, some type of help distinguishing ships would be a good thing, as the players have many other items to consider. Maybe Ed's idea of attaching a paper flag that can easily be removed would suffice.

What would you think about a set of extra bases of a slightly different but readily distinguishable shade of blue that could be used for ships of one "flag" during a game?
These could then be used or not.

tmon
10-30-2013, 16:53
In history quite a few French ships became British and some British ships became French through capture. So the question of what nationality an oncoming ship is always a concern.

Coog
10-30-2013, 17:02
I posted this thread some time ago so some of our newer members may not have seen it. The thread gives information on several French ships taken into British service:

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?381-Notable-French-Ships-In-the-British-Navy

Andy Blozinski
10-30-2013, 17:54
Leave one set of bases in factory blue. Paint the other set dark sea green. Done. Now you know who is on what side. If you want to get fancy, only do the green on the upper section.

Gunner
10-30-2013, 18:20
To keep it simple for "new guys", issue each one a different color pennant. All they'll have to do is look for their color.

7eat51
10-30-2013, 18:23
Different color bases would definitely work. I do not think they would be too distracting, either. Once the game starts, I don't think people would care, and would probably welcome the differentiating ability. With the additional enhancements as mentioned here, such as painting sails, rigging, etc., folks will not focus as much on the bases other than for the purpose of differentiation.

To Tom's point, in conjunction with Bruce's point about realism, individuals running games can decide if a given group of players should have the advantage of using different colored bases or not. If the game master wants some fog-of-war, use the same colored bases; if the game master wants ease of differentiation, use different colored bases. This seems to be an easy and effective solution.

The Royal Hajj
10-31-2013, 08:43
I had thought about painting the rear of the bases in the national colors to help with IDing the ships, main for Cons. This would be pretty simple, not require modding the ships and could be reversed at some point if really needed.

As to removing the plastic between the sails, that is going to be much harder then one thinks. That masts are glued to the ship and will most likely have to be removed from the ship before you can get to and remove any of that plastic. That means having to pin them back on when done. I honestly don't know if it is worth the trouble. No one in any of the games I ran even mentioned this part of the mini.

How much do you notice them in these "game" pics?

http://sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5736&d=1372731833

http://sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5735&d=1372731832


Simple rigging will go a very long way in making the ships look proper:

http://sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6845&d=1379215928


And I will be releasing ratlines for the models via the AA store. A couple of the Langton brass ratlines will work on these ships, but you'd have to buy a lot of them to get enough to outfit a single ship. At about $3 a pop, it will be quite expensive to outfit the ships going that route.

7eat51
10-31-2013, 09:18
No one mentioned the plastic at either con. I didn't notice it, and I knew about it from previous conversations here.

Looking forward to your ratlines.

Folks liked the rigging on the ships that had it. I believe it was your paintbrush method, correct Keith? It was a noticeable improvement that seems quite easy to make.

The Royal Hajj
10-31-2013, 09:29
Yes, those were the "paint brush ships". I think if one wanted to rig all of their ships, it would be much easier and faster to measure and cut a supply of each length needed on each ship. Put them in little baggies until need to keep them safe. Label the bags with what length is inside, and have a photo/diagram that shows what each line is on each ship type. This would allow you to rig the ships in assembly line fashion. Fast and very easy.

The Mad Hatter
10-31-2013, 11:40
You only really notice it when you pick the ship up and look at its side profile. As Hajj points out, and his pictures illustrate, because you're always looking down and at angles, the plastic blends in with the sails and isn't at all noticeable. I've got a pretty high standard about my models and how good they look, and it didn't both me.

DeRuyter
10-31-2013, 12:15
In the pictures I noticed the white spars (yards) more than the sail attachments.

The Royal Hajj
10-31-2013, 13:19
In the pictures I noticed the white spars (yards) more than the sail attachments.

Yes, the unpainted yard do stand out quite a bit. This is one area I'll be spending some painting time on. I mean, why rig the ships if the yards are going to be unpainted?

David Manley
10-31-2013, 14:39
You only really notice it when you pick the ship up and look at its side profile.

I've not noticed it at all. I've seen some suggestions regarding painting in the "gap", I worry that this might just draw attention to it. I reckon that if you fit 1SL's brass ratlines they'll be pretty much obscured anyway.

Coog
10-31-2013, 20:07
I think that if the plastic in the gaps between the sails and masts really bothered someone, it would be a lot easier to replace the sails and masts than trying to cut them out, assuming that masts and sails of a suitable size is available.