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HMS Lydia
10-09-2013, 10:41
Hmmmm, does anyone know the damage chit numbers yet? I know the rule book has the total chits for each set, but not contents of the damage marker sets.

I know some people think that this troughs off probabilities. But I think the more ships added to game, increases the numbers of chit sets you need which also alters probabilities. So, I will create a die damage table for each type of damage.

HMS Lydia
10-17-2013, 14:43
Based on the fact that the damage counter sets are 90's and 60's, think I will send off for some D30's.

RichardPF
10-17-2013, 15:20
Based on the fact that the damage counter sets are 90's and 60's, think I will send off for some D30's.

It would seem to me like some arrangement of dice and damage tables would be a good way to go.

I can't really see how a non-replacement strategy that would be doable by using chits but not dice would be preferable for these events.

csadn
10-17-2013, 16:44
http://heavymetalpro.com/RUS_Features.htm -- I use this for my _WoG_ games.

HMS Lydia
10-18-2013, 10:44
http://heavymetalpro.com/RUS_Features.htm -- I use this for my _WoG_ games.

This is interesting, doesn't say if it will work on Windows 7, but it's free so it can be experimented with.

Thanks for this CASDN!

HMS Lydia
10-18-2013, 11:17
Will still need dice as a back up however.:question:

HMS Lydia
01-07-2014, 16:34
When I received my package on Friday, the first thing I did was open one of the starter sets and pull out the damage tokens. Since there are 5 damage sets, 3 sets with 90 and 2 sets with 60, I ordered some D30 from a dice store in the UK. The damage sets were perfectly situated for D30. The 90 sets were all divisible by 3, and 60 sets were all divisible by 2.

I already had an Excel template set up. It was just a matter of figuring the die to counter conversions. It took about 30min to work through this process. I want to add special roll modifications to the chart, such as power magazine explosion, and first broadside, etc.

7eat51
01-07-2014, 19:02
When I received my package on Friday, the first thing I did was open one of the starter sets and pull out the damage tokens. Since there are 5 damage sets, 3 sets with 90 and 2 sets with 60, I ordered some D30 from a dice store in the UK. The damage sets were perfectly situated for D30. The 90 sets were all divisible by 3, and 60 sets were all divisible by 2.

I already had an Excel template set up. It was just a matter of figuring the die to counter conversions. It took about 30min to work through this process. I want to add special roll modifications to the chart, such as power magazine explosion, and first broadside, etc.

Let the good times roll.

I am very interested in seeing what develops in terms of special roll modifications. I have enjoyed the added dimension they have brought to our OTT campaign on the 'Drome.

HMS Lydia
01-07-2014, 20:21
Let the good times roll.

I am very interested in seeing what develops in terms of special roll modifications. I have enjoyed the added dimension they have brought to our OTT campaign on the 'Drome.

I've started research on this. It seems that for instance with the powder magazine explosion it's a 25% chance (redraw from 4 chits). I'll have to work on this. The first broadside is the same as with chits. The chart will just have a reminder for the extra damage/action. I'm sure there are other cases as well though. I'm going to have to find them all in the rules and apply a die roll, shouldn't be too difficult.

HMS Lydia
01-08-2014, 06:41
I think I caught all situations in the rules. I'm going to try and upload my dice chart.

HMS Lydia
01-20-2014, 08:58
After playing several games, the dice work, but they do slow down play. We have decided to use the damage chits with the grease pencil ship charts. The Ships charts work magnificently!

Пилот
01-26-2014, 02:34
Bob,

maybe you could post your lists here, in case somebody wuold like to try dice system anyway?

HMS Lydia
01-27-2014, 06:43
Heмaњa,

This chart is loaded in the Anchorage file/dowload section. By the way, the dice worked well statistically. Where it slowed the game was in damage distribution. After the dice are rolled, the numbers have to be written, then re-ordered (highest to lowest), then held until everyone has fired.

This chart can be downloaded, and if you PM me I can e-mail you an imprived verision.

Thanks,
Bob

7eat51
01-27-2014, 08:55
In our OTT campaign on the 'Drome, we use dice for special situations, e.g. determining what happens to a pilot upon crash landing, etc. That works well. I can envision the slowing down effect you mentioned, Bob; using the chits removes one step in damage allocation-recording.

Gunner
01-27-2014, 12:26
In our OTT campaign on the 'Drome, we use dice for special situations.

Never go to a game without a pair of 6 & 10 sided dice in your bag. Their also a great argument solver.

7eat51
01-27-2014, 12:39
Their also a great argument solver.

You weren't at Rock-Con. :wink:

Gunner
01-27-2014, 12:57
You weren't at Rock-Con. :wink:

You're supposed to roll them. Not throw:takecover: them at each other.

Пилот
01-27-2014, 16:17
Guy who owned FLGS had big brass D20 of about 250 grams / 9 ounces.

We called it Problem Solver :cannonboom:

csadn
01-27-2014, 19:42
The SO has a zocchihedron -- or, as we like to call it, a "golf ball".... ;)

HMS Lydia
01-29-2014, 08:38
Bob; using the chits removes one step in damage allocation-recording.

Eric,

I agree. Although I would like to try one other thing using the damage dice chart. I would like to take damage sets and place them in a organizer by type. And then place the appropriate chit down based on the roll. I prefer the randomness of the chart (priimarily for the reason most people don't want to use dice, I don't want the statistical variation).

It's faster to roll 6 dice than pull 6 chits, but then everything slows down. The dice is converted to damage on the chart which is quick, but then has to be ordered from highest to lowest. And not really recorded on individual ships charts until all ships have fired (since fire is simultaneous).

7eat51
01-29-2014, 23:27
Bob, if you would like to have another set of eyes look at your latest chart, let me know.

I think I will incorporate this for my students this fall. Having them make a chart, and then asking them different probability questions would be quite fun, I believe. I could bring SoG to class, teach them how to play, and then have them start the chart work.

Пилот
01-30-2014, 03:53
Have anyone considered making customized D30 or D6? Instead of genuine numbers dice should have counter symbols.
It would take some time to make your own, but seems interesting (at least, for me :happy: ). Maybe Royal Hajj even could provide them in the Store? (I'm just thinking...)

A Damage (D30)
0 - 12 fields
1,2,3 - 2 fields each
4 - 1 field
Crew - 3 fields
Crew/1 and Crew/2 - 1 field each
Sail/1 - 1 field
Rudder/2 - 1 field
Water/2 and Water/4 - 1 field each
Mast/4 - 1 field
Water/4 - 1 field

B Damage (D30)
0 - 6 fields
1,2,3,4 - 2 fields each
5,6 - 1 field each
Crew - 3 fields
Crew/1 and Crew/2 - 2 fields each
Crew/4 - 1 field
Sail/2 - 1 field
Rudder/3 - 1 field
Fire/3 - 1 field
Water/3 and Water/4 - 1 field each
Mast/5 - 1 field

C Damage (D30)
0 - 5 fields
1 - 3 fields
2 - 1 field
3 - 4 fields
Crew - 10 fields
Crew/1 - 2 fields
Crew/2 - 1 field
Sail/1 - 3 fields
Sail/2 - 1 field
Mast/2 and Mast/3 - 1 field each

D damage (D30)
0 - 8 fields
1 - 4 fields
Crew - 14 fields
Crew/1 - 3 fields
Sail/1 - 1 field

E damage (D6)
0 - 3 fields
Crew - 3 fields

Every damage could be simply determined by rolling neded number of dice.

Of course, markers to fill boxes still would be required.

HMS Lydia
01-30-2014, 15:19
Bob, if you would like to have another set of eyes look at your latest chart, let me know.

I think I will incorporate this for my students this fall. Having them make a chart, and then asking them different probability questions would be quite fun, I believe. I could bring SoG to class, teach them how to play, and then have them start the chart work.

Eric,

I'll e-mail it to you tonight or tomorrow when I have a chance. A class that creates probability models sounds like fun!

Bob

7eat51
01-30-2014, 15:38
Eric,

I'll e-mail it to you tonight or tomorrow when I have a chance. A class that creates probability models sounds like fun!

Bob

Probability, for some reason, is one of the harder sections for students to get in a basic stats class. If I can turn it into a game …

I once thought about having a probability test in which I would hand out $100 in Monopoly money, and have several buddies come in and set up a casino. The students would have one hour to play, their final winnings being their test grade. Those who actually learned probability would just sit back and talk for an hour. Those who didn't would play.

HMS Lydia
02-19-2014, 05:41
Eric,

Was the dice chart helpful?

Bob

Ken H
02-19-2014, 08:06
I freely admit the chit system sees the probabilities change as chits are drawn in the same manner as drawing straws or Russian roulette. That said the cure of dice and tables seems far more burdensome than simply living with the varying probabilities or minimizing their impact with 2 or 3 sets of chits.

The chits double as damage markers, you will still need to track damage anyway with dice an tables so you need the chits. I for one do not feel adding tables to be consulted is going to speed up or add to the game's enjoyment factor and my gut tells me it will make it more burdensome for new players.

Those are just my thoughts on the matter though I respect that others may feel different and prefer to play with tables and dice.

HMS Lydia
02-19-2014, 08:21
Ken,

We came to the same conclusion. Although after playing several games drawing chits, didn't see any difference on damage draw. The chits are simply faster! Eric wanted the chart for a probability project.

Having said that, the chart didn't work so well, I am still not a fan of fiddly chits laying around the table. My grease pencil ship cards have gotten great reviews in the local gaming community. And, I've discovered most people don't care for the chits (but simply didn't have a solution around them). So, we pull the damage chits, record them after everyone fires, then the chits go into a cup marked for each damage set. When the chits in the bag deplete to a certain level we add chits back to that bag. Honestly, we haven't played any games large enough thus far that we've had to put any chits back.

fredmiracle
02-19-2014, 09:40
Yeah, I must say the grease pencil idea sounds good. Still haven't gotten to play, but I am starting to imagine big piles of counters getting scattered by cats or kids...

For those of us too-lazy-to-laminate, what about just xeroxing the chart and marking it up?

Bionic Wookie
02-19-2014, 10:05
Let the good times roll.

I am very interested in seeing what develops in terms of special roll modifications. I have enjoyed the added dimension they have brought to our OTT campaign on the 'Drome.

Apologies for being a brainless twit (but I cannot help myself! lol), but what does "OTT" mean? Is this a campaign on a thread or another website?

Bionic Wookie
02-19-2014, 10:09
We have played a number of games at our FLGS and as we are planning on running Trafalgar, at some point, we have already concluded we will need several sets of the basic game. The D30 sounds like a much better idea. I used to have one (pulling out ancient D&D dice bag and cackling mindlessly), but now I have another excuse to use it!

Nightbomber
02-19-2014, 10:13
Apologies for being a brainless twit (but I cannot help myself! lol), but what does "OTT" mean? Is this a campaign on a thread or another website?

Over The Trenches solo Campaign at wingsofwar.org, mate:)

Ken H
02-19-2014, 10:13
I was thinking of making a foam core "quarterdeck" to contain the ship cards and chits more neatly while playing.

As an engineer and numbers junkie I freely admit to scanning all the chits before punching them out so I would have a way to figure out all the probabilities at a later date. I just prefer the drawing method to a die roll.

HMS Lydia
02-19-2014, 13:13
For those of us too-lazy-to-laminate, what about just xeroxing the chart and marking it up?

We used document protectors for SFB back in the early 80's. Less expensive than laminating too.:thumbsup:

Gunner
02-19-2014, 14:40
I was thinking of making a foam core "quarterdeck" to contain the ship cards and chits more neatly while playing.

If I'm not mistaken, I think Keith is working on a similar project.

Bionic Wookie
02-19-2014, 18:30
"Have anyone considered making customized D30 or D6? Instead of genuine numbers dice should have counter symbols.
It would take some time to make your own, but seems interesting (at least, for me ). Maybe Royal Hajj even could provide them in the Store?"

There is a Americam company called Chessex that will make dice (d6) to custom order. The price is reasonable, bit you have to send them the art.

bakblast
02-19-2014, 22:13
The only thing I don't like about SOG is the "bump" factor of using counters to record damage, and that the possible damge outcomes are altered with every draw. So I am putting ship logs on metal sheets so I can use magnetic counters to track damage. That way I can recycle the damage chits and as a result not change the damage probabilities with each draw.

The same as the traditional grease pencil/dry erase system.

7eat51
02-20-2014, 07:54
Bob, I like the chart. Thanks.

Out of curiosity, why did it not work well for you?

HMS Lydia
02-20-2014, 10:58
Bob, I like the chart. Thanks.

Out of curiosity, why did it not work well for you?

We did actually come up with a way to make it work. But, initially it was too slow. This was due to having to record damage before everyone had fired, and needing to clear the chart for re-use.

What we ended up doing that sped the process up, I divided the damage chits into a small organizing box. As each person fired and converted on the chart, the appropriate chit was pulled and laid down next the their ship card. After everyone fired, the chits were recorded in grease pencil, and then the chits returned to the box.

Someone in our group made the point that the crews were getting killed off because of the non-changing statistical probabilities. So we played a game drawing chits, and proved that theory false. It actually didn't change the multi-turn result at all (this was playing with 4 ships and 1 chit set). Of course they are probably right if you go above 4 ships and use only one damage set. But, I see it as one set per 4 ships. And in that case, probabilities should remain average, which means the D30 chart provides a similar result as pulling chits, IMO.

Пилот
02-20-2014, 11:25
For those who want to return damage counters to the bag after drawing the damage (or to use dice for distributing damage), I made some damage chits. They are to be put on damage tracks to make keeping track easier.

http://www.sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=70

bakblast
02-22-2014, 22:58
For those who want to return damage counters to the bag after drawing the damage (or to use dice for distributing damage), I made some damage chits. They are to be put on damage tracks to make keeping track easier.

http://www.sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=70

I am going to use these with sheet magnet backing. Should work nicely.

How about the other types , crew fire etc?

Gunner
02-23-2014, 01:30
For those who want to return damage counters to the bag after drawing the damage (or to use dice for distributing damage), I made some damage chits. They are to be put on damage tracks to make keeping track easier.

http://www.sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=70

I'd use it if I didn't have a ton of Wiz Kids Pirates of the Caribbean circle numbers.

7eat51
02-23-2014, 11:40
I'd use it if I didn't have a ton of Wiz Kids Pirates if the Caribbean circle numbers.

Good idea, Ed. I have a bunch as well. This would be a good use of them.

Пилот
02-23-2014, 16:57
I am going to use these with sheet magnet backing. Should work nicely.

How about the other types , crew fire etc?

They are included in starter set, so I didn't make them yet. But I'll probably make them in near future.

Пилот
02-23-2014, 16:58
I'd use it if I didn't have a ton of Wiz Kids Pirates if the Caribbean circle numbers.
Also a very good idea!

Hamiton
08-04-2014, 17:28
Hi: I would be interested in your chart. My email Chiefsrules@aol.com Thanks Don

7eat51
08-05-2014, 06:10
Donald, when you have a moment, stop by the Welcome Aboard forum. Folks will be glad to meet you: http://sailsofglory.org/forumdisplay.php?5-Welcome-Aboard

I have the chart and will email it to you. I don't know if Bob updated it since, but I will take a look at it this week as well. I am going to have my stats students work through such probabilities this semester. I hope having them make gaming charts like these will be a more enticing way for them to work through probability.

Since we used laminated charts at Origins, I replaced damage chits after drawing. I liked keeping the odds for damage consistent across firings.

HMS Lydia
08-05-2014, 13:04
Sent.

Hamiton
08-17-2015, 22:46
Hello Bob: I'm doing a game using Sails of Glory /Trafalgar rules at Fall-in using your D30 chart, Modified to include aiming high damage. I've modified the Trafalgar ship sheets so I can use them to record damage. I'm planning on using around 12 ships and needed to use a different way of doing/logging damage and a faster way of maneuvering so I don't have to use so many Damage chits or Maneuvering Cards.
Your D30 chart does away with the critical damage chart in Trafalgar which I didn't like. I will let you know how well the chart works. Don

7eat51
08-20-2015, 23:10
Hi Don,

I just sent you an email. Let me now if you need help attaching it or uploading it.

I look forward to seeing what you did.

Hamiton
08-23-2015, 15:17
I sent you an email with attachment around the 19th name New D30 Table, did you receive it? My daughter said it could only be sent Via email so we sent it to you however I didn't have Bob's Email Don