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The Royal Hajj
09-20-2013, 09:16
Ares will be releasing the official lineup of accessories today... we got them a little ahead of everyone else (but with no photos). They are:

SGN501A Game Mat $34.90
SGN502A Terrain Pack - Coasts and Shoals $12.90
SGN503A Terrain Pack - Coastal Batteries $19.90
SGN504Z Damage Counter Bags (Set of 5 different bags) $ 24,90
SGN505A Additional Ship Mats (Set of 4) $9.90
SGN506A Additional Counter Set $12.90

Look for them on the AA site for pre-order this weekend at my normal discounted prices (the prices above are full retail).

The Royal Hajj
09-20-2013, 09:19
I should add that the basic counters needed to sail ships from the Ship Packs will be included in the Ship Mat product (SGN505A). So, for every 4 ships you buy outside of the starter set, you should pick up one of these accessories.

GrouperKicker
09-20-2013, 09:39
Two Questions:
1. Am I correct in remembering that Ares has stated that all ships ordered via the Kickstarter will include a Ship Mat?
2. What exactly does the Additional Counter Set (SGN506A) contain? (Does it include the 390 A-E damage counters?)

Thanks!

tmon
09-20-2013, 10:10
Free Game Mat for all pledge levels Lieutenant and up.

Wear Ship Dave
09-20-2013, 10:13
Keith, do you expect photos with the official release in the next few days?

The Royal Hajj
09-20-2013, 10:58
Two Questions:
1. Am I correct in remembering that Ares has stated that all ships ordered via the Kickstarter will include a Ship Mat?
2. What exactly does the Additional Counter Set (SGN506A) contain? (Does it include the 390 A-E damage counters?)


1. I'd have to go digging on the KS page my self (which I don't have time to do, sorry), but I seem to recall something like that.
2. I've not been told exactly, but I would think it would the same as what was offered in the KS. We know that it will include the damage counters, but since at least the "ship control" action counters are going to come with the Ship Mats, I'd think the rest would be in the product. It just all depends on how the counters are divided on the printed sheets.


Keith, do you expect photos with the official release in the next few days?

Yes, they said the product sheets would be going out today, but it's already 8pm over there there.... so maybe Monday?

GrouperKicker
09-20-2013, 11:20
I found the answer to question #1... Ares post on the Kickstarter Comments page dated April 11th:
"#Counter sets. The Starter includes one set of counters, and the stretch goal at 1,000 is the 2nd set for Captains. Each ship requires a ship log, ship mat and a set of action tokens. The Starter Set includes 4 of these, so if you play with advanced rules, there's a limit at 4. ALL THE KICKSTARTER SHIPS ARE COMPLETE WITH SHIP MATS AND ACTION TOKENS. This means if you get 16 ships, you also get 16 mats and 16 set of action tokens.
For ship packs available at retail, due to size and cost consideration. we will not include a ship mat with them (which is an accessory anyway) or a set of action tokens (as very soon you'd end up with loads of them) but we'll include the ship logs, which are the essential items necessary to play them.

In the future, additional sets, each including 4 game mats and sets of action tokens, will be available as an accessory for separate purchase, and we'll probably do the same with counters, so that the contents of a Starter do not limit the number of ships you can play with at one time."

The Royal Hajj
09-20-2013, 11:56
Thanks for digging that out.

Andy Blozinski
09-20-2013, 18:59
So, what's up with the smoke markers? Any special rules for those yet? I didn't see them in the rulebook, but then again I was skimming through it half conscious too.

7eat51
09-20-2013, 19:45
Thanks for the reminder Scott. That is helpful.

Can someone remind me, will we have another chance to add to the KS order before shipment?

Wartrain
09-21-2013, 01:39
The latest comments from Ares on the SOG Kickstarter page say we have till this weekend, after that we can only change addresses.

David Manley
09-21-2013, 02:18
So, what's up with the smoke markers? Any special rules for those yet? I didn't see them in the rulebook, but then again I was skimming through it half conscious too.

i must admit I didn't see any either. And we haven't playtested any either. we did use them extensively in our demo/parti games though, placing them alongside ships when they fire and removing them when the broadside is reloaded and able to fire again. they made a handy (and quite attractive) visual marker and were extremely useful.

QfunK!
09-21-2013, 03:02
The smoke clouds could also be used in representing which ships are on fire in the optional rules. Get too close to one, and now you have two.

The Royal Hajj
09-21-2013, 08:12
So, what's up with the smoke markers? Any special rules for those yet? I didn't see them in the rulebook, but then again I was skimming through it half conscious too.

Not in the base rules. I was always my understanding that it would be added in a later supplement.


i must admit I didn't see any either. And we haven't playtested any either. we did use them extensively in our demo/parti games though, placing them alongside ships when they fire and removing them when the broadside is reloaded and able to fire again. they made a handy (and quite attractive) visual marker and were extremely useful.

I am glad you guys found them as useful as I have during games.


The smoke clouds could also be used in representing which ships are on fire in the optional rules. Get too close to one, and now you have two.

Some type of fire mark might be in order for this as well.

7eat51
09-21-2013, 10:20
i must admit I didn't see any either. And we haven't playtested any either. we did use them extensively in our demo/parti games though, placing them alongside ships when they fire and removing them when the broadside is reloaded and able to fire again. they made a handy (and quite attractive) visual marker and were extremely useful.


The smoke clouds could also be used in representing which ships are on fire in the optional rules. Get too close to one, and now you have two.

Good ideas. If we don't get our KS in time for my demo game at Rock-Con, I will make some of these. I like the idea of using aids that will enhance the visual appeal of the game and assist with the game mechanics.

David Manley
09-21-2013, 15:33
I'd suggest black smoke for fire, white for gunfire. I have some markers for FLoB like that, with red and yellow poster paint added for flame effect :)

7eat51
09-21-2013, 15:38
Thanks David. Fortunately, I am married to someone with artistic talent and desire. Sue made some great flame and smoke markers for WoG recently. If I can pull her away from painting fantasy minis for a bit - which she is currently doing - I will design such markers with her. I will post pictures of what we create.

David Manley
09-21-2013, 15:54
I will post pictures of what we create.

Looking forward to seeing them :)

7eat51
09-21-2013, 16:00
I am reading through the rules and thinking about which ones I will use for the upcoming demo game. During next week, I will make the associated player aids we discussed the other day. I look forward to sharing those with all of you and to getting some feedback for improvement. I will post the final version as a file. When I use the player aids at Rock-Con, I will ask the players what they found helpful in them, or whether they used them at all. I will make adjustments accordingly.

OmegaLazarus
09-23-2013, 15:21
I am reading through the rules and thinking about which ones I will use for the upcoming demo game.

If you want some unsolicited advice (Who doesn't? :happy:), this is what I would do (and plan to do with local group) with a con group.

Standard rules, raking, continuous fire, no special ammo or just grape and ball, no pre-guaging wind direction. Use only the one part of the 'backing' maneuver card. --- I would probably find a gel or gum sticker (the kind that come off easily and don't damage cards) to cover the other end of the card so there is no confusion.

If the table was large and had about 6+ players per moderator helping them. I would make these changes to keep the gameplay quick and deadly - No forward planning of maneuvers (basic movement, but using the veer stat). Maybe take out continous fire and use basic rules for firing.

Of course, this is just what I plan to do and don't know what your situation is. However, I would appreciate any feedback before or after so I can adjust what I plan. I will be running a game with 4 friends, but I also plan to run one of the local game groups as well and that may have 8+ people playing.

7eat51
09-23-2013, 16:25
Japheth, advice is solicited, so please always offer your thoughts. I find the give-and-take of conversations here to be very informative and helpful with my thinking process.

As I am thinking about the demo game in October, especially given that it will be at a con and I might not know everyone at the table, and will not be experienced with the game, I am leaning toward keeping the game fairly basic. I would like to switch at some point during the game, with plenty of notice, to the one card delay, and possibly do something similar with the combat mechanism. The reason for this is to give folks a feel for the game and some of its features and potential. I am trying to keep in mind that this will be a demo game and not a normal event game, i.e. something to showcase the game and some of its features and potentials. Next year, I will run two games - one demo, and one regular event.

OmegaLazarus
09-24-2013, 08:53
It never occurred to me to switch up mid-game. That is brilliant! I may use that for my intro games as well.

7eat51
09-24-2013, 09:05
It never occurred to me to switch up mid-game. That is brilliant! I may use that for my intro games as well.

In my mind, I am trying to differentiate a demo game from teaching someone the game. The demo game is to give a basic feel and some indication of possibilities - in some sense it is a sales pitch. A regular event has a different purpose, to achieve some military outcome, if you will. This does not mean that a demo game cannot have a military goal, or a regular game cannot sell someone on the game, but the primary intentions are different. Again, this is how my mind currently works as I prepare to run my demo game(s). Next year, I hope to run both kinds.

When teaching friends with whom I am going to play repeatedly, I will probably work through basic, standard, advanced, and house rules in that order. We have the luxury of multiple gaming sessions, and they trust me that if their initial experience is somewhat wanting, the game will get better on subsequent plays. Demo games, on the other hand, could be one-time shots to hook people.

Beowulf03809
09-24-2013, 09:37
I think it's a great idea to be ready in a Demo to "take it to the next level", such as the card delay. I hadn't considered that until your post but I often find when trying to introduce a game to new players that some get it really fast and others don't. For those that do (for example they have a lot of experience with other games so basic concepts and mechanics are old hat) it would be good after a couple turns to be able to add another layer to show them more of what is available. If someone is having trouble or just getting it at the Basic level, then leave them there so they don't feel overwhelmed.

Oh...sorry to continue the thread jacking... :rum:

The Barrelman
09-24-2013, 13:21
I should add that the basic counters needed to sail ships from the Ship Packs will be included in the Ship Mat product (SGN505A). So, for every 4 ships you buy outside of the starter set, you should pick up one of these accessories.

Any idea on what the ship action tokens are of the 210 that are listed in the starter set? I wonder what of those are for wind change and the like.

Also...

Anything you can share of the plans for storage from AA. I know there are the bags for the damage counters. But, there are 200+ other bits to store... So many little bits. (Anyone else got an idea. I would toss everything in one spot. Sorting it all every game would be very time consuming.)

and...

Do we need additional damage token sets for each additional 4 ships? (Like extra decks for Wings) If so, the cost for this game just went up a bit. (Ship packs + assorted additional purchases required to support them...)

The Royal Hajj
09-24-2013, 13:41
Any idea on what the ship action tokens are of the 210 that are listed in the starter set? I wonder what of those are for wind change and the like.

They are all shown on page 58 of the rule book.


Anything you can share of the plans for storage from AA. I know there are the bags for the damage counters. But, there are 200+ other bits to store... So many little bits. (Anyone else got an idea. I would toss everything in one spot. Sorting it all every game would be very time consuming.)

I'm working on a complete storage solution for the game.


Do we need additional damage token sets for each additional 4 ships? (Like extra decks for Wings) If so, the cost for this game just went up a bit. (Ship packs + assorted additional purchases required to support them...)

I don't think you are going to need more damage token until you hit around 10+ minis in a single game. I ran games at Origins of 8 ships and did not have an issue with running out of tokens. The rules also talk about returning tokens to the bag after a ship is sunk and such. If you are going to be fielding all of your ship minis at the same time, you are going to need some extra ship mats. The Ship Packs come with the ship log, but not the larger mat.

The Royal Hajj
09-24-2013, 13:42
I just got the sales sheet on these products, so they will be up on the site tonight. I'll post a link when they are ready.

Avi
09-24-2013, 14:41
As the chits are removed from the pool - wont it skew the results if you use more ships than the 4 planned per chit pool?

The Royal Hajj
09-24-2013, 14:45
Yes, but Andrea has said several times that as the game designer, he was not worried about that (this was in regards to WGS, but applies here as well since they use the same damage system).

David Manley
09-24-2013, 14:45
As the chits are removed from the pool - wont it skew the results if you use more ships than the 4 planned per chit pool?

Oh the statistical fun and games of chit drawing :) the results are skewed as soon as you draw the first chit. Its just a feature of the game style.

David Manley
09-24-2013, 14:54
Yes, but Andrea has said several times that as the game designer, he was not worried about that (this was in regards to WGS, but applies here as well since they use the same damage system).

Indeed. It is very easy to get wrapped round the axle worrying about such things.

The Royal Hajj
09-25-2013, 16:55
These are now up on the site for pre-order (http://www.aerodromeaccessories.com/index.php/official-products-2/sails-of-glory.html).

Avi
09-26-2013, 06:25
Oh the statistical fun and games of chit drawing :) the results are skewed as soon as you draw the first chit. Its just a feature of the game style.

Oh I understand they are skewed, and that the "skwe" will change with the number of ships on the playing field.
I wonder if there is a breaking point where one pack of chits could not serve any more.

Kind of 4 ship is optimal, 6 doable, but 8 breaks down to quickly...

The Royal Hajj
09-26-2013, 07:11
According to Ares, more damage counters is need at 10-12+ ships.

Andy Blozinski
09-26-2013, 19:24
I ordered one extra set of counters with my Kickstarter. I'm going to have one set on either side of the table.

Comte de Brueys
09-27-2013, 11:45
I should add that the basic counters needed to sail ships from the Ship Packs will be included in the Ship Mat product (SGN505A). So, for every 4 ships you buy outside of the starter set, you should pick up one of these accessories.

I've ordered two seperate French ship-packs at AA.

Is there not everything in it to play (with the starter set of course)? :question:

The Royal Hajj
09-27-2013, 14:30
To have more than 4 ships on the table at the same time, you will need to pick up on the the Ship Mat accessories. If you are just wanting to play with ships different than what comes in the start set, you are okay with what you have.

kelsith
09-28-2013, 02:17
To have more than 4 ships on the table at the same time, you will need to pick up on the the Ship Mat accessories. If you are just wanting to play with ships different than what comes in the start set, you are okay with what you have.

As I understand it that is true if you were not part of the Kickstarter, if you were than per the April 11th comment from Ares Games "ALL THE KICKSTARTER SHIPS ARE COMPLETE WITH SHIP MATS AND ACTION TOKENS. This means if you get 16 ships, you also get 16 mats and 16 set of action tokens. "

Therefore if you did get additional ships you may not need to get any additional mats until you have more ships on the table than you Kickstarted. Which could be as many as 32 for Commodore or more if you added extras.

...and if you do have a battle with over 32 ships please take pictures.

7eat51
09-28-2013, 09:11
The Kickstarter seems so long ago that I have forgotten what we're receiving.

Here is the KS link to a pdf summary of what the pledge levels will receive: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4427040/SGN%20Pledge%20Summary.pdf

Here is the KS link to the comments: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1402889231/sails-of-glory-miniatures-ship-combat/comments

Here is the full comment Chris quoted; it is important to differentiate between the action tokens that come with additional ship mat purchases, and the counters that come with additional counter purchases:
#Counter sets. The Starter includes one set of counters, and the stretch goal at 1,000 is the 2nd set for Captains. Each ship requires a ship log, ship mat and a set of action tokens. The Starter Set includes 4 of these, so if you play with advanced rules, there's a limit at 4. ALL THE KICKSTARTER SHIPS ARE COMPLETE WITH SHIP MATS AND ACTION TOKENS. This means if you get 16 ships, you also get 16 mats and 16 set of action tokens.
For ship packs available at retail, due to size and cost consideration. we will not include a ship mat with them (which is an accessory anyway) or a set of action tokens (as very soon you'd end up with loads of them) but we'll include the ship logs, which are the essential items necessary to play them.
In the future, additional sets, each including 4 game mats and sets of action tokens, will be available as an accessory for separate purchase, and we'll probably do the same with counters, so that the contents of a Starter do not limit the number of ships you can play with at one time.

The Royal Hajj
10-01-2013, 07:30
As I understand it that is true if you were not part of the Kickstarter, if you were than per the April 11th comment from Ares Games "ALL THE KICKSTARTER SHIPS ARE COMPLETE WITH SHIP MATS AND ACTION TOKENS. This means if you get 16 ships, you also get 16 mats and 16 set of action tokens. "

Therefore if you did get additional ships you may not need to get any additional mats until you have more ships on the table than you Kickstarted. Which could be as many as 32 for Commodore or more if you added extras.

...and if you do have a battle with over 32 ships please take pictures.

You are correct, my reply was in general for the game, not just for those who bought in during the KS project.

Capn Duff
01-02-2014, 06:04
A question about the range ruler, not the one with the counter to the extra wooden one.
The one I received has the range for Grape and chain shot shorter than the card version by about 8mm, is this an error or has something changed with the rules, the wooden is obviously a lot mor sturdier but cuts the range of the special ammo?

The Royal Hajj
01-02-2014, 07:17
The wooden one is incorrect. This was brought to our attention about a week ago and we are working out a solution to get everyone a new one. Late in the project the size of the CR was changed. I corrected the overall size, but did not realize that they had also increased the range on the special ammo. The overall length of the punch out card ruler is a little variable from sample to sample (this type of production is never 100% accurate, just see the rulers from Wings as an example). By measuring off of the original artwork used to make the card rulers, the wooden ruler's shortest range needs to be 5mm longer.

As I said, we are working out a solution to get everyone a corrected wooden ruler, but in the mean time you can simply scribe/draw a line 5mm further out.

Capn Duff
01-02-2014, 18:41
Kk thanks Keith I shall do so

Nightmoss
01-05-2014, 22:13
Keith, I kind of asked this in another thread, but I'm going to put it here with the 'official accessories'. Will you or Ares be selling ships bases, the acrylic card shields or replacement parts in general?

While working on the HMS Terpsichore this evening it would have been really nice to have the option to add the bowsprit yard to the ship. That piece appears to be a clip on item for the larger SOL's and would definitely enhance the smaller ships as well.

Thanks!

The Royal Hajj
01-05-2014, 22:32
I have no plans to mold base parts. Not sure if Ares is going to offer them, but I doubt it based on their decision not to for Wings. They will have replacements for damaged ones, but I think that is about it.

Nightmoss
01-05-2014, 22:45
I have no plans to mold base parts. Not sure if Ares is going to offer them, but I doubt it based on their decision not to for Wings. They will have replacements for damaged ones, but I think that is about it.

Thanks Keith. The bowsprit yard is the one thing I'd like most, especially as it's just a clip on. I might try making a part, but the curved sail will be a problem for any kind of molding/casting. 3D printing might be a better option, but I don't have that resource.

DeRuyter
01-08-2014, 13:41
Thanks Keith. The bowsprit yard is the one thing I'd like most, especially as it's just a clip on. I might try making a part, but the curved sail will be a problem for any kind of molding/casting. 3D printing might be a better option, but I don't have that resource.

No worries, the sprits'l was little used at this point and certainly not in battle, so you need only be concerned with the yard itself. A small dowel might suffice or parts from Langton sets.

Eric

Nightmoss
01-08-2014, 14:06
No worries, the sprits'l was little used at this point and certainly not in battle, so you need only be concerned with the yard itself. A small dowel might suffice or parts from Langton sets.

Eric

Excellent idea, Eric. I'm actually thinking the the brass fittings that hold the ratlines could be used for that. Probably doubled over so as to add strength and keep from bending when rigged?

DeRuyter
01-10-2014, 12:04
Excellent idea, Eric. I'm actually thinking the the brass fittings that hold the ratlines could be used for that. Probably doubled over so as to add strength and keep from bending when rigged?

You could throw some rigging on the spar to keep it from bending.

Nightmoss
01-10-2014, 14:00
You could throw some rigging on the spar to keep it from bending.

Yes, I think that would work really well and add some extra stability.