GenCon Day 2

[Nightmoss]

These shots are actually from last night. I caught the 4 on 4 after a WoG event ended in the same gaming hall. I've got an event at 8pm so I'll just post the photos without comments. If you have any questions just ask. Oh, and the French got the victory.

[Andy Blozinski]

Are the flags at the stern of the ship removable?
It looks like the wind direction indicator is only etched on one side, or was this one just not etched?

[Naharaht]

More great pictures but one small detail, the ships have their ship's boats on deck. In battle, they were never left on deck because if they were hit by a cannonball they would produce clouds of deadly splinters. The boats were either towed behind or set adrift to be picked up later.

[Gunner]

More great pictures but one small detail, the ships have their ship's boats on deck. In battle, they were never left on deck because if they were hit by a cannonball they would produce clouds of deadly splinters. The boats were either towed behind or set adrift to be picked up later.

With card movement, it wouldn't be a good idea to clutter up the board with little boats. If you don't like them, it looks like with a little work they could be cut out or ground off.

[David Manley]

The issue with the boats was pointed out to Ares when the very early prototypes were first seen, but they decided to go with them anyway. A pity, but no great shakes. Tricky to rectify well though due to the boat beams below. Maybe scrape them away to a flat surface and paint in? But I personally won't bother - the 1/1200 models I have that aren't "at quarters" have boats and I don't notice them in the heat of battle.

[7eat51]

I assume Ares kept the boats to add a bit more detail to them, to make them a bit more aesthetically pleasing.

The mats look generic enough to be quite versatile. Any idea if different types of mats are in the works?

[Cmmdre]

I like what I see and can't wait to get my sets and start playing. Thank you for posting these images as they keep me going while I wait, and wait...and wait...

[Devsdoc]

Can some one join this thread with GenCon day 2, or is it 1, no 2 or maybe 1...........................! :question: :erk: :sick: :puke:
A not so safe spinning
Rory

[Devsdoc]

With card movement, it wouldn't be a good idea to clutter up the board with little boats. If you don't like them, it looks like with a little work they could be cut out or ground off.

Maybe in later add-ons or house rules you will get ships boats actions. Most rules have a number of boats as a group on one base. So they may add a movement deck of cards for this. It would be small in number. As one only uses the cards one at a time per ship or set of ships boats it would not clutter up the board. Just around the board.
Be safe
Rory

[Cmmdre]

I like the idea of using a separate deck for those actions. You wouldn't actually have the boats on the board rather solely use the deck action to represent what transpires, repelled, or boarding etc...

[The Royal Hajj]

Are the flags at the stern of the ship removable?
It looks like the wind direction indicator is only etched on one side, or was this one just not etched?

It's etched only on one side due to costs and production issues. Flipping the wood over and getting the etching to line up perfectly would be near impossible. It would also double the costs of them... not counting the increased cost of production errors that had to be thrown out to misalignment.



More great pictures but one small detail, the ships have their ship's boats on deck. In battle, they were never left on deck because if they were hit by a cannonball they would produce clouds of deadly splinters. The boats were either towed behind or set adrift to be picked up later.

When I talked to Ares about this, they gave two reason for having them on deck. 1) It gave the ships more detail and makes them look better. 2) Each ship of a class has different colored boats, another visual clue as to which ships is which. Something that new players to the Age of Sails period is going to need. I personally agree with their reasons and am glad to see the boats on deck.


I assume Ares kept the boats to add a bit more detail to them, to make them a bit more aesthetically pleasing.

The mats look generic enough to be quite versatile. Any idea if different types of mats are in the works?

Not that I've heard of. They decided to use a generic mat and allow players to customize them with the terrain packs as they need.

[Naharaht]

I never was my intention to clutter the 'field' of battle with a multitude of small boats. I saw the presence of the boats as an error, which could be removed to simplify the construction of the models. However, now you have explained why Ares left them in place.

[7eat51]

Jim, thanks for the X-Wing pictures. I sent this link to a friend who is a Star Wars fan and has the game. I am finding myself enticed.

Rory, I think we'll see quite a bit of house rules, including the creation of custom decks. If you remember, we started a thread to discuss shore scenarios. I can start another one for cutting out actions, etc., unless we would consider them shore/coastal-ish. Any other ideas about boat use?

Chris, upper limit on X-Wing? All it would take is for Clipper to start scratch building X-Wing items. If there was ever someone who could elevate a mini-game to a new level, it would be him. If he ever starts building, I will start collecting.

[Nightmoss]

I won't start a "Last Day at GenCon" thread, but here are some shots I took today before leaving the vendors room and Indianapolis. I had looked back at some of the earlier pictures and decided I really wanted some closer shots of the bows. So here they are.

[Andy Blozinski]

What's up with that one base in black and the others blue?

[Nightmoss]

What's up with that one base in black and the others blue?

I didn't even catch that until your post. I expect Keith will know, if not someone else. I'd guess they are/were testing how colors would look in general?

[Gunner]

Jim, I thought all of the SoG 74's had a spritsail. What happened to the first picture (no spritsail)? Are they detachable?

[Nightmoss]

Jim, I thought all of the SoG 74's had a spritsail. What happened to the first picture (no spritsail)? Are they detachable?

I did notice that and I think the sails just clip on. I really would have liked the chance to sit and disassemble some ships, but needless to say that wasn't an option. Ares booth space was very limited, their backstock was under every table. Very small number of SoG ships were there I'm guessing?

[David Manley]

When I talked to Ares about this, they gave two reason for having them on deck. 1) It gave the ships more detail and makes them look better. 2) Each ship of a class has different colored boats, another visual clue as to which ships is which.

No different I guess to all those 28mm Naploeonic figures in parade dress that one sees on tables rather than more shabby or greatcoated troops more akin to what one would have seen. its wrong, but its a deliberate choice for aesthetic purposes


Something that new players to the Age of Sails period is going to need.

Did they not think the name on the base and the flag might give the newbies a clue? :happy:
I would challenge even the most die hard AoS player to differentiate between models using the colour of the ship's boats, let alone newbies!

[Gunner]

I would challenge even the most die hard AoS player to differentiate between models using the colour of the ship's boats, let alone newbies!

When making sister ships from doubles, painting the ships boats different colors will be one of the ways I'll use to tell them apart without straining my eyes trying to read the name, if I even use a name. I'm not worried about my opponent not knowing what ship is closing in on her.

[The Royal Hajj]

Did they not think the name on the base and the flag might give the newbies a clue? :happy:
I would challenge even the most die hard AoS player to differentiate between models using the colour of the ship's boats, let alone newbies!

But you are not always going to be able to see or read the name on the base. Any additional visual clue as to which ship is which is a plus. Just think about the two Aussie Snips in Wings... I almost never fly them together because I don't want to have to read the SSN s on the sides of them! lol



Jim, I thought all of the SoG 74's had a spritsail. What happened to the first picture (no spritsail)? Are they detachable?

They are a separate part. In the pre-production ships, the parts were not glued in to allow for fitment testing and inspection. This one probably just fell off it they did not glue them before the show... or it never showed up from the factory in the first place.



What's up with that one base in black and the others blue?

I'd put money on it being one of the production test bases.

[Devsdoc]

Why not paint the name on the sails.:erk: :sly: I'm in David's camp on this one. If he will have me?
Be safe
Rory

[Comte de Brueys]

Thank you for the nice pictures, Jim. :salute:

To be honest, I don't like the lines on the SoG gaming mats. :hmmm:

The colour is ok, but I planed to combine those mats with WGS Pacific battles or the costal gaming mat.

[Gunner]

To be honest, I don't like the lines on the SoG gaming mats. :hmmm:

The colour is ok, but I planed to combine those mats with WGS Pacific battles or the costal gaming mat.

I know that they say the lines will be lighter, I just hope that they'll be very light.

[7eat51]

The lines will be lighter? Is that for sure?

I would like to see one of these mats next to the coastal mat to see how the blues look with each other.

Sven, WGS Pacific battles? You mention this or the coastal mat. Is there another mat specially designed for WWII Pacific? If so, where can I find it?

[Diamondback]

Eric, I think he's saying he plans to use the SGN mat for both SGN AND WGS. :)

[7eat51]

Eric, I think he's saying he plans to use the SGN mat for both SGN AND WGS. :)

I imagine you're correct DB. I remember collecting Squad Leader boards; I thought they were pretty cool. I kind of have a similar feeling about WoG mats. I have the Ares ones, but would like some different custom ones as well. Always hoping for more. :pray:

[Gunner]

The lines will be lighter? Is that for sure?

Double check with Keith. He said, that's what they told him.

I stand corrected. He said thinner, not lighter.

[Nightmoss]

Actually I was told the lines would be "thinner" than what they are now. There's one thick and one thin line on the mats. Each will be about half the size it is in those photos. While they might appear lighter it's only because of the space they'll be taking up on the mats.

[Nightmoss]

For anyone who might be curious GenCon just released the attendance stats for this year's convention. 49,000 unique attendees with 159,300 over the four days. An estimated $47 million in yearly economic impact from the convention, which has only been surpassed by Superbowl 2012. It certainly felt like the busiest GenCon I've ever attended. Who all is going to be there next year for all the SoG events that might be offered? :happy:

[Demiurgo]

Thanks to Jim for the photos, and anybody else for the comments!

A couple of things:
- the small boats are a separate part. So if you don't really like them you can pry them away from the deck quite easily with a cutter or screwdriver. That might also help if you want to differentiate a ship from its "twin" if you have two of each ship, and want to use both versions at once.
- the bowsprit is present on all SoLS. I guess the ship got damaged while playing. Again, however, this is another part you can remove to differentiate similar ships.
- the black colored base was from previous samples. The blue color is the one in the final production.
- the game mat indeed have thinner lines (about half the thickness) than these samples.

Thanks!

[Nightmoss]

Thanks to Jim for the photos, and anybody else for the comments!

A couple of things:
- the small boats are a separate part. So if you don't really like them you can pry them away from the deck quite easily with a cutter or screwdriver. That might also help if you want to differentiate a ship from its "twin" if you have two of each ship, and want to use both versions at once.
- the bowsprit is present on all SoLS. I guess the ship got damaged while playing. Again, however, this is another part you can remove to differentiate similar ships.
- the black colored base was from previous samples. The blue color is the one in the final production.
- the game mat indeed have thinner lines (about half the thickness) than these samples.

Thanks!

Thank you again for coming to GenCon; not only for previewing the final production models, but giving many of us a chance to demo the game in person. As I said above it was extremely generous of you to let me take all the photos, ask all the questions and generally hang out at the booth. Can't wait for the games release!! Cheers!

[Gunner]

Can't wait for the games release!! Cheers!

I'm sure Jim speaks for all of us.
And thanks for the clarifications.

[7eat51]

Roberto, thank you and your team for creating such an enjoyable game. I had the opportunity to preview it at Origins, and even with a basic set of rules, the game was a lot of fun.

[Lead mountain]

Looking at the models, I am almost in a forgiving mood for the delays.

I cannot wait to get them and my local club involved in a naval wargame. The older members will shudder, but these models should bring them around!!

[Andy Blozinski]

I expected some delays, so that doesn't bother me. I'm just having trouble with the delays now risking me getting to demo the game at a convention and thus promoting it to help them sell more to people I can play with.

One thing I'm hoping they do before shipping out is...
Let us change up our purchase a second time. I'd like to get one more mat.

[Gunner]

One thing I'm hoping they do before shipping out is...
Let us change up our purchase a second time. I'd like to get one more mat.

I wonder if Keith will stock these at the Anchorage:question:

[Mizzen]

Kieth mentioned terrain packs for the maps. Did I miss in this thread what that is exactly?

[David Manley]

Kieth mentioned terrain packs for the maps. Did I miss in this thread what that is exactly?

Heavy card overlays for coastlines, islands and other features. They were announced during the Kickstarter.

[CHolgren]

I was off for most of the summer and lost track of Bruce's papercraft terrain. Whatever happened on that front?

[Mizzen]

Heavy card overlays for coastlines, islands and other features. They were announced during the Kickstarter.
Is there any eye candy for these yet somewhere?

[Gunner]

Is there any eye candy for these yet somewhere?

What say you Keith?

[BSG_Fan]

Question for anyone who played the demo at GenCon: are there different stats (on the ship log) for ships of the same class and same nationality? For example, are the Juno, Terpsichore, and Cleopatra all identical since they're all Amazon class, or are there slight differences in them to make them a little more interesting in gameplay?

[Ayeblackbart]

I sat down at Gencon and demoed this game 2 times. It was something I had planned on doing before I went. I had hope to demo for Ares but alas it wasn't to be.
Anyway this game is every bit as cool as I had hoped. I have about 20 age of sail board games and they will all go to the shelf when this one arrives in October. Excellant job Ares!

[Nightmoss]

I sat down at Gencon and demoed this game 2 times. It was something I had planned on doing before I went. I had hope to demo for Ares but alas it wasn't to be.
Anyway this game is every bit as cool as I had hoped. I have about 20 age of sail board games and they will all go to the shelf when this one arrives in October. Excellant job Ares!

Hi Tony. I got one demo in and was able to watch a group play on Thursday evening. Like many of us here I'm really looking forward to the official release. Cheers!

[OmegaLazarus]

Is there any eye candy for these yet somewhere?

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1402889231/sails-of-glory-miniatures-ship-combat/posts

Here is the Kickstarter update that showed some of the detail.

[The Royal Hajj]

Guys, please keep this thread on topic.



I wonder if Keith will stock these at the Anchorage:question:

Yes, I will. The starter set and ships are already up for pre-orders. As soon as they have the product codes and other info for the accessories, those will go up as well. As for my own accessories, it will not be much longer before those are up as well.


Is there any eye candy for these yet somewhere?

Only on the KS page linked to earlier.


Question for anyone who played the demo at GenCon: are there different stats (on the ship log) for ships of the same class and same nationality? For example, are the Juno, Terpsichore, and Cleopatra all identical since they're all Amazon class, or are there slight differences in them to make them a little more interesting in gameplay?

There are only three different stats for a ship, it's Burden, it's maneuverability rating, and the maneuver deck it uses. All ships of a class have the same stats (at least that I have seen so far). The ship cards (similar to the plane cards in Wings, but not an actual game piece) do however show different crew sizes and such. It's quite possible those additional "stats" might be used in the advanced rules. There is also going to be the Captain and Crew ability deck to change things up.

[BSG_Fan]

There are only three different stats for a ship, it's Burden, it's maneuverability rating, and the maneuver deck it uses. All ships of a class have the same stats (at least that I have seen so far). The ship cards (similar to the plane cards in Wings, but not an actual game piece) do however show different crew sizes and such. It's quite possible those additional "stats" might be used in the advanced rules. There is also going to be the Captain and Crew ability deck to change things up.

I expected maneuver decks, burden, etc to be identical in ships of the same class; I was wondering more about gunnery. Do they have different values for musketry and cannons?

[The Royal Hajj]

Can't tell you that as I've only seen the ship log for the four starter box ships. On the ship cards, they do make note of different crew sizes and number of guns, but not sure if this translates into game stats or not. There are rules to make ships have poor crew for sailing and shooting purposes as well.

[OmegaLazarus]

There are rules to make ships have poor crew for sailing and shooting purposes as well.

I must say, at first I thought this (the same ship classes having identical stats) was not very good. My initial reaction was that too many matches would be "mirror Matches" which aren't as fun as the other option on any miniatures game. The reason many of us play historic minis or games less suited to tournament play, is because we value uneven forces, disparate objectives, and historic recreation of known conflicts. So, I thought that having two ships of the same class, act the same was going to be lame.

However, the more I think about the game and the Cpt&Crew abilities, the more I appreciate that they did that. This way, two beginning players (which we will all be at first :happy:) can fight on an even plane, which is less frustrating and more conducive to learning, as each ship handles the game mechanics in the same manner. Then, for when we do want different forces or perhaps to recreate a specific ship, we can use the aforementioned cards to alter such things as gunnery or energetic sailing.

With that, we can recreate any of a number of ships for many purposes and the recreating of both sides will be easier further still, since we start both ships from the same place (and so it is easier to skew the stats "better or worse" from a single mid point).

So now, I am sold on that choice and even more excited to take receipt of my fleet (a Cpt. running a fleet, who would have thought).

[The Royal Hajj]

I agree that they did well in keeping the basic stats of all ships relatively even. I really think this is going to be a game that gets a lot of new players involved in AoS games. As such, keeping things balanced initially is a must. Once people learn that certain navies were know to have better crew or gunners, they can easily add those in via existing rules/cards.

The other thing that will "unbalance" a game is the wind. Putting one side to leeward will drastically change how that game is played out.

Looking over the rule book, the thing that got me most excited about the game were the terrain elements and shore batteries... the rules for those just scream for custom scenarios!

[Eldil]

I just recognized the wedding ring on the lovely hand in the ninth picture--and I should, since I put it on that finger back in May. This was the same demo game we played!

It was great fun. My wife took her French frigate toe-to-toe with a pair of English ships-of-the-line and paid the price, but she still managed to stay afloat long enough to watch the English get smashed (one ship sunk, and another accidentally retreated off the board).

[Nightmoss]

I just recognized the wedding ring on the lovely hand in the ninth picture--and I should, since I put it on that finger back in May. This was the same demo game we played!

It was great fun. My wife took her French frigate toe-to-toe with a pair of English ships-of-the-line and paid the price, but she still managed to stay afloat long enough to watch the English get smashed (one ship sunk, and another accidentally retreated off the board).

Hi Nate,

From what I can recall you all had a great time. Would have enjoyed playing as well, but the tickets sold out fast. Regardless, I was very pleased to see the ships and be able to get some early photos of the production ships. Cheers!

[tmon]

It also keeps a person on his toes. Not knowing how good the ship is you'll be going up against. For instance when the Spanish ships show up most of them will be poorly crewed and captained but what happens if you end up against one of their best captained and crewed ships?


I must say, at first I thought this (the same ship classes having identical stats) was not very good. My initial reaction was that too many matches would be "mirror Matches" which aren't as fun as the other option on any miniatures game. The reason many of us play historic minis or games less suited to tournament play, is because we value uneven forces, disparate objectives, and historic recreation of known conflicts. So, I thought that having two ships of the same class, act the same was going to be lame.

However, the more I think about the game and the Cpt&Crew abilities, the more I appreciate that they did that. This way, two beginning players (which we will all be at first :happy:) can fight on an even plane, which is less frustrating and more conducive to learning, as each ship handles the game mechanics in the same manner. Then, for when we do want different forces or perhaps to recreate a specific ship, we can use the aforementioned cards to alter such things as gunnery or energetic sailing.

With that, we can recreate any of a number of ships for many purposes and the recreating of both sides will be easier further still, since we start both ships from the same place (and so it is easier to skew the stats "better or worse" from a single mid point).

So now, I am sold on that choice and even more excited to take receipt of my fleet (a Cpt. running a fleet, who would have thought).