Myth Busting Hollywood stunts

[Cpt Kangaroo]

I was watching a show on TV the other night called Myth Busters, and they were taking apart a Hollywood stunt to see if it was event possible. It was a good show, but it got me to thinking.

We see a lot of action in movies that, to say the least, makes you shudder in that it cannot have been done.

I thought it would be fun to bring up your favorite stunts you have seen and debate if it is Credible or Incredible.

My first pick is the "Dropping the anchor while under full sail to spin the ship around and get in the first shot" scene in Pirates of the Caribbean. I just about choked on my popcorn. I would personally put this in the second category. But, I did see this in a more recent movie where the same thing was done with a battle ship. So I could be mistaken.

My belief is that if the rode held the strain, it would rip the bow out, or at the very least, put a real hurting on the cat head.

What say you all? And do we have any other favorites to pick apart?

[David Manley]

I was watching a show on TV the other night called Myth Busters, and they were taking apart a Hollywood stunt to see if it was event possible. It was a good show, but it got me to thinking.

We see a lot of action in movies that, to say the least, makes you shudder in that it cannot have been done.

I thought it would be fun to bring up your favorite stunts you have seen and debate if it is Credible or Incredible.

My first pick is the "Dropping the anchor while under full sail to spin the ship around and get in the first shot" scene in Pirates of the Caribbean. I just about choked on my popcorn. I would personally put this in the second category. But, I did see this in a more recent movie where the same thing was done with a battle ship. So I could be mistaken.

My belief is that if the rode held the strain, it would rip the bow out, or at the very least, put a real hurting on the cat head.

What say you all? And do we have any other favorites to pick apart?

There wouldn't be any effect on the cat head. That is only a post used for raising and lowering the anchor, and to which the anchor was connected whilst stowed, so once the anchor is let go its out of the picture.

Instead the loads on the cable would be felt by the riding bitts, two or four very stout vertical posts with equally stout horizontal bars around which the cable was threaded, and against which the cable was held whilst at anchor. The cable was stowed below decks, ran trough the bitts and then out through a hawse hole in the bow of the ship.

I've heard of (and once seen) anchors accidentally let go whilst the ship was under way. The effect was usually for the cable to fail at the bitter end and for the whole kit and caboodle to fly out and be lost. Where the speed was low enough for the cable not to fail there could be some damage to the securing points in the cable locker.

As to what it would do to a wooden ship, it depends on the ships speed, whether the anchor holds immediately or not, whether the cable stretches under the sudden load, exactly how the cable is arrayed through the ship. I woud imagine that the bitts and the structure around them could be in for some serious damage in extreme cases.

[7eat51]

Though I found the film Air Force One with Harrison Ford nauseating throughout, the scene where he is ripped from Air Force One and is dangling off of another USAF plane just about did me in.



http://youtu.be/SuJOuQ9PJ_o

[David Manley]

And do we have any other favorites to pick apart?

I'm a naval architect and have spent a lot of time mucking about with the RN and other armed services so I do my best to "suspend disbelief". but even then I had to cringe at the nautical crapness that was "Speed 2" :erk: (even if it did have Sandra Bullock in it :happy: )

[Devsdoc]

Lots of films that show smoke around the targets of cannon, land and sea in the black powder period. dust yes! smoke No!
Be safe
Rory

[Naharaht]

I suspect that a great many of these stunts are 'artistic licence' put in to make the film more entertaining. I doubt very much that pirates would have boarded another ship by swinging on the end of ropes.

[Cpt Kangaroo]

I suspect that a great many of these stunts are 'artistic licence' put in to make the film more entertaining. I doubt very much that pirates would have boarded another ship by swinging on the end of ropes.

Errol Flynn had a classic scene where he landed on a sail and whipped out his trusty knife and jabbed it into the canvas to slow down his fall, landing perfectly on his feet and beating up on his foe. Hmmmmmm.:question:

[7eat51]

Errol Flynn had a classic scene where he landed on a sail and whipped out his trusty knife and jabbed it into the canvas to slow down his fall, landing perfectly on his feet and beating up on his foe. Hmmmmmm.:question:

I need to think about this for a bit, but I am much more willing to play along with Errol Flynn in such things than my previous post about Harrison Ford in Air Force One. Maybe I approach the two films differently, figuring Errol Flynn's movies are not to be taken seriously in any form or fashion, whereas contemporary action films try hard with special effects, etc., that I expect similar effort in terms of internal plausibility. Errol Flynn was playing, somewhat, a hero; Harrison Ford, a regular guy. Like I said, I need to think about this.

[Cpt Kangaroo]

OK, here is another classic scene shown in several movies. It's the diving over the side with a knife between the teeth' stunt.

Anyone who has jumping head first into the water with a mask on can attest to the forces involved. To say the least, the actor would have a much larger smile. (Shudder)

Can't think of specific movies at the moment other than Tarzan, but that is a little off topic. :happy:

[Cpt Kangaroo]

Lots of films that show smoke around the targets of cannon, land and sea in the black powder period. dust yes! smoke No!
Be safe
Rory

Also when they include a large fire ball!

[Cpt Kangaroo]

I'm a naval architect and have spent a lot of time mucking about with the RN and other armed services so I do my best to "suspend disbelief". but even then I had to cringe at the nautical crapness that was "Speed 2" :erk: (even if it did have Sandra Bullock in it :happy: )

David,

Share some specifics, I know with your occupation this will be good! What was the biggest tongue in cheek moment for you?

I thought the kinetic energy of the ship was over rated with regard to running through the pier and then aground.

5954

[David Manley]

That was the icing on the cake, but I admit I do try to blank that monstrosity from my mind. That said "ballast doors" (large doors into the ballast tanks that you apparently can just open and sink the ship) spring to mind!

Titanic was another one. Wrong on so many levels.

[csadn]

Errol Flynn had a classic scene where he landed on a sail and whipped out his trusty knife and jabbed it into the canvas to slow down his fall, landing perfectly on his feet and beating up on his foe. Hmmmmmm.:question:

_Mythbusters_ did that one. It's false: Sails are not one continuous piece of fabric; they are sewn together from small segments. The places where the segments are sewn together are considerably thicker than the rest of the sail (look at a piece of clothing; the seams there are much the same effect); when the blade hits that point, it either stops, or is forced out of the fabric altogether. Neither of these in conducive to a pirate's arrival on deck in a controlled manner. :)

As to swinging on lines: Peter Woodward's _Conquest_ demonstrated how poorly that notion works ( picture the man on the line swinging around -- and straight into a mass of people who are just holding up their swords...).

[7eat51]

Titanic was another one. Wrong on so many levels.

I actually cried at the end of Titanic. I realized I lost three hours of my life and some brain cells.

[Coog]

I actually cried at the end of Titanic. I realized I lost three hours of my life and some brain cells.

Titanic wasn't that bad...Leonardo Dicaprio does die in the end.:happy:

[Cpt Kangaroo]

I actually cried at the end of Titanic. I realized I lost three hours of my life and some brain cells.

Eric, are you sure it wasn't the liquid refreshments getting you through the whole show that caused the brain cell loss?

Didn't hurt me, but I noticed the movie got better the closer we got to the end.:sly:

[Cpt Kangaroo]

OK, I just though of another that I crack up over. The hero lights the fuse and jumps over board and goes deep in the water to escape the explosion. (Not mentioning any of Jack Sparrows names)

Anyone hear of concussion magnified in the water? Fish floating belly up is more likely the result.

I recall a little 5 pound charge of c4 at a depth of 30 feet opening the seams and bruising our feet because we were still about 100 yards from the blast site. (Had to make a run for port after that one.)

That level of concussion would be a whole lot less than a magazine going off.

(I am sure we have a couple in the group who could share better examples.)

[Avi]

OK, I just though of another that I crack up over. The hero lights the fuse and jumps over board and goes deep in the water to escape the explosion.

If the explosion is out of the water - its not to bad underneath...
Its only if the explosion is relatively deep, that so much more damage damage will be caused (times 7 is the "standard" figure)

Relatively deep - is very wishy-washy -
Standard anti personnel - under water grenades should drop at least 3-4 meters and should not be used in "the standard way/"
(dropping off the side) in water less than 10 meters deep.

If they explode on the surface (dropped on board as opposed to over board)
Ducking, covering your ears and opening your mouth will save you from any serious damage.

[David Manley]

Avi is right. There is a significant acoustic impedance mismatch between the air and the water, and hence the shock wave is almost entirely reflected. Being underwater also protects from fireball and fragmentation effects.

[Cpt Kangaroo]

What about if it was a magazine below the waterline. Would the blast be focused up 'Out of the hole'? Or would the shock be transferred within the water medium?

[csadn]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1640571/

>:)

[David Manley]

What about if it was a magazine below the waterline. Would the blast be focused up 'Out of the hole'? Or would the shock be transferred within the water medium?

Depends whether the hull was breached or not. I have seen rather large internal explosions where the hull, being water backed, did not fail and so the blast was directed upwards. In a few cases an almost perfect cut line along the waterline (hull side above blown out, hull side below intact).

Similar effect with the shock wave; there would be some transmission, but not much, if the hull wasn't breached. If it was, then similar effects to a charge in water.

[Cpt Kangaroo]

That would account for survivors after actual events like the Hood and L'Orient.5961

[Andy Blozinski]

Oh that just takes it. I've been waiting 15 long years for just the right moment to finally watch Speed 2 for the first time so I could make my life complete and now you've gone and ruined it by telling me the cruise ship rams the docks at the end. The big surprise is now blown.
Sheesh, next thing you know you're going to tell me Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father or some other poppycock.

[csadn]

Sheesh, next thing you know you're going to tell me Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father or some other poppycock.

Rosebud was his sled. ;)

[Cpt Kangaroo]

I would like to add another common stunt we see. The big storm hits and the call for all hands is made. Sometimes it is to shorten sail, or some other adjustment in the rigging. I know I wasn't there in those days, but it seems to me that committing a lot of men on deck in the height of a storm, let alone sending them aloft, seems like a bad idea.
Don't get me wrong, I know it was done and had to be, for the safety of the ship. It is just that I don't think a lot could be done up a 100ft mast while the ship was pitching and yawing violently. That had to be terrifying, to say the least, and only the most experienced would be able to survive it. Only then with a lot of help.

6024

[csadn]

I would like to add another common stunt we see. The big storm hits and the call for all hands is made. Sometimes it is to shorten sail, or some other adjustment in the rigging. I know I wasn't there in those days, but it seems to me that committing a lot of men on deck in the height of a storm, let alone sending them aloft, seems like a bad idea.

The alternative was losing most of one's sails and masts -- or having the ship rolled onto its beam-ends and sunk outright.

There's Bad, and there's Worse.


Don't get me wrong, I know it was done and had to be, for the safety of the ship. It is just that I don't think a lot could be done up a 100ft mast while the ship was pitching and yawing violently. That had to be terrifying, to say the least, and only the most experienced would be able to survive it. Only then with a lot of help.

They weren't always sent up to bring in the sails; sometimes, they went up just long enough to cut everything loose. If they were lucky, they had spares to put up after the storm.

And you're right -- some of the tales told from the Age of Sail, even as recently as the "windjammer" period, are f***in' horrifying.