PDA

View Full Version : Rorys step by step guild to painting and rigging



Devsdoc
07-16-2013, 18:30
Hi Guy's
I'm not Vol, Jim or James. This is how I do it. It is not the best or only way it's just my way. This is going to be done in real time, so there maybe long bouts of nothing sorry. I will use lots of photos. I will try and answer question's as we go. If you do not like what I'm doing that is O.K. You can take it all or in part as you wish. I base the work from Langton's Paint and rigging guild with Rory add on's and misses. I hope this helps my Shipmates in what to, or not to do with model ships. I am making wargaming models not art. So some of you WILL not like what I do.
So here goes.
I'm going to use Langton's NR5, M-TJ, MX16 and PE4 for painting

5796

And because she is bigger "Selafail" 74 gun Langton's NR2 For the rigging.

5797

I glued sails to masts and stern to the hull.

5798

I drilled holes in the main mast fighting top. Also in the bow and behind the Catheads and Channels (both sides). I also drilled though the mast holes.

5799

I added the Bowsprit to the ship.

5800

Sprayed them all white.

5801

Sprayed the base blue. then puff sprayed it green.

5802

Be safe
Rory

Nightmoss
07-16-2013, 18:48
Anxious to see what's next and thank you for the step by step. Carry on.:salute:

7eat51
07-16-2013, 20:23
Rory, this is great. Thanks.

Not having ever done this before, and not having parts or book yet, I have a couple of questions.

You wrote, "I drilled holes in the main mast fighting top. Also in the bow and behind the Catheads and Channels (both sides). I also drilled though the mast holes."

Would you mind explaining a bit more?
Does Langton's book state drill bit sizes?
Does it show you how to do these holes you have done?
Did you drill all the way through on each of these, or are you making holes for other pieces to fit in but not through (I hope my question is clear and apologize if not)?

The Royal Hajj
07-16-2013, 20:49
Can't wait to see more Rory!

Volunteer
07-16-2013, 23:43
Eric, Rory is probably sleeping now. The holes in the fighting tops, bow, catheads and channels are for rigging later, not parts. That's why his rigging looks so good. He drills out the mast holes for a better fit.

Rory,
This is wonderful! I am so glad you are doing this. You have already taught me a great deal over the last several months and I am anticipating learning a great deal more with this guide of yours. We are all anxiously awaiting your next installment.
Regards,
Vol

Berthier
07-17-2013, 06:35
Love these types of threads Rory, look forward to reading more, makes me think maybe even I can do this:embarass:

Devsdoc
07-17-2013, 18:02
Hi All,
It's me again! Thank you for the feed back on this thread. Eric, I hope Vol answered you fully (Thanks Vol :salute:). If not repost :thumbsup:. I'm finding the photos hard to do, if they are not good Sorry!
I use Citadel, Army Painter and Formula P3 acrylic paints. Why? I love A,P's spray paints and just buy the colours I like.
I paint the Stern and the Bows, Head Rails Black.

5806

I add blue spots to the windows of the Stern.

5807

This one is very hard to show, I added a brown to the Head rails. By dry-brushing it over the black.

5808

I will not tell you what colours to use. That is up to you and what fleet you are painting. I dry-brushed Bronze over the whole Stern. Some of you may wish to add more detail at this point on the Stern. I had to use two photo's for this one.

5809
5810

I painted the inside top of the Stern Bronze too. That is all from me tonight my shipmate's
Be safe
Rory

7eat51
07-17-2013, 18:09
Rory, my order is going in today. Once I read Langton's book, I am sure I will have plenty of questions. For now, I think I understand, but time will tell. Regardless, it is really good to know I have you folks to lean on for advice and encouragement.

Please continue to share Rory. This is helpful and inspiring.

Volunteer
07-17-2013, 20:40
Great Rory. A question, why bronze instead of gold? It looks great.

Devsdoc
07-18-2013, 08:21
Great Rory. A question, why bronze instead of gold? It looks great.

Hi Vol,
I do as little work as possible. So if I painted Gold it would be too bling looking, unless I added more colour. Maybe O.K. for Spanish? The Bronze look, look's more weathered. Or you could use Yellow's for a less "in your face" look.
Be safe
Rory

Old Ironsides
07-18-2013, 10:01
Must look away....must look away...I will not be sucked into another modeling project.

Excellent work so far. :happy:

DeRuyter
07-18-2013, 11:59
Excellent postings Rory - thanks!

:medal:

Eric

Devsdoc
07-18-2013, 13:38
Hi All,
The hull. Most of the hulls are Black, but not all. Some had diffident colours or more than one colour. Sorry! but that is a thread in it's self. Not for here. The Russian's had black and white ships. So I have painted mine Black. Also do the Bow post and under the stern. You can also do the Catheads and front Beakhead (The bit behind the Bowsprit with the Knightheads on). I have left mine for now. Do the top of the Bulwarks too. But do not paint the Hammock netting. I have not painted below the lowest Wale.
I also painted the Gratings Black.

5813

I then Dry-brushed over the Black on the Gratings

5814

I am waiting for Jane to ring, as I must go and pick her up. So more later
Be safe
Rory

7eat51
07-18-2013, 15:08
The bronze really looks good, and against the black of the hull and the blue of the windows, very sharp.

Gaz67
07-18-2013, 15:10
Nice post, I especially like how Blue paint costs more then Green by a whole 1.

Devsdoc
07-18-2013, 16:12
Nice post, I especially like how Blue paint costs more then Green by a whole 1.
Hi Gaz,
I bet you cannot guess which is the oldest can? :question:

Back again, Jane home safe.
Now it's time to clean out the drilled holes with a pin.

5815

For the decks pick two colours that match. But one a little darker.

5816

Using the darker of the two paint the main gun deck in the waist and the Beakhead.

5817

Paint the rest of the decks with the lighter colour. Sorry! not a good photo!

5818

Around this time I paint the model number under the new ships base.

5819

I now paint the Catheads and the front bulkhead behind the Beakhead, both sides and along the top. This could be done at the hull stage if using the same colour as the hull. As I was using the same colour I also painted around the Gratings.

5820

I hope this helps you and is not to long winded. I must go and paint some more :dazed:
Be safe
Rory

Volunteer
07-18-2013, 19:18
Hi Vol,
I do as little work as possible. So if I painted Gold it would be too bling looking, unless I added more colour. Maybe O.K. for Spanish? The Bronze look, look's more weathered. Or you could use Yellow's for a less "in your face" look.
Be safe
Rory

Ah! Good point. I'll have to try it. Thanks Rory.


I hope this helps you and is not to long winded. I must go and paint some more :dazed:
Be safe
Rory[/QUOTE]

I thoght wind was a requirement in this game? The longer the wind the better!

Regards,
Vol

Devsdoc
07-18-2013, 21:27
Hi All,
Yes! Vol, I'm Blowing. Thanks for your e-mail. I think you are right!
The next bit is the start of the Oh! my God. Mistake's can and will be made. It is O.K. as you just paint over your mistake's. It is now hard to take photo's of the work as it is getting smaller for now. It is mostly just dots and short lines.
I painted the inside of the Bulwarks and Waist.

5821

The Gun Carriages and some of the deck furnishings. Again not the best photo.

5822

I finished off the deck furnishings and Bitts on the inside of the Bulwarks with a darker colour

5823

5824

The last part of the inside of the ship is the black bits. The galley chimney, the Cannon barrel and the door-ways to the inside of ship under the decks.

5825

5826

The next bit is back to the hull.
Be safe
Rory

7eat51
07-18-2013, 23:36
Looking great Rory. As much as I think the pictures are impressive, when I realize just how small these models really are, it becomes incomprehensible to me. I really admire the skill of the shipmates here.

Forgive me if you mentioned this before, but what type of magnification device are you using? My eyesight is not what it used to be, so I will need something good. Vol and I discussed some goggles earlier in the spring, and I bought a pair, but I have to bring the item within inches of my face for the goggles to be clear. I cannot imagine such a position when trying to paint.

Berthier
07-19-2013, 04:59
Eric
There are a couple of optical solutions to the magnification problem depending on what glasses you already wear

If you just wear readers with similar strength in each eye then these
http://www.eschenbach.com/1a5c8084-1ab1-46e1-989a-d6a5788d6875/products-spectacle-magnifiers-noves-magnifying-eyewear-detail.htm
offer a range of high magnification glasses with reasonable working distances (20cm for the link above). The problem with most magnifying systems for this sort of work is that as the magnification increases, the working distance decreases.

The second alternative is a clip on magnifying system that attaches to your glasses or comes with its' own frame, thus
http://www.eschenbach.com/products-spectacle-magnifiers-clip-on-systems.htm

The eschenbach products are top of the line optical items and thus expensive but there are cheaper options you'll find on the web which will certainly do the job. Ideally you should try them out but this could be tricky unless your local eyecare provider stocks them or is willing to get them in for you to try. If you are on good terms with them take a model in and say this is what I want to paint how can I see it comfortably!



Looking great Rory. As much as I think the pictures are impressive, when I realize just how small these models really are, it becomes incomprehensible to me. I really admire the skill of the shipmates here.

Forgive me if you mentioned this before, but what type of magnification device are you using? My eyesight is not what it used to be, so I will need something good. Vol and I discussed some goggles earlier in the spring, and I bought a pair, but I have to bring the item within inches of my face for the goggles to be clear. I cannot imagine such a position when trying to paint.

Devsdoc
07-19-2013, 06:04
Hi Eric,
I'm 56 and wear glasses. I do not use magnification. If your eyes are O.K. I believe that if you work using magnification it looks all wrong on the table. But for you my friend I do not know what to say? Vol is a good friend and would always try and help. Daniel information sounds good to me and maybe the way to go. I would take a model to your Optical person as you may find they like to help with something diffident. I wish I could be more helpful.
Be safe
Rory

Volunteer
07-19-2013, 16:40
I like the paint job Rory!

Gunner
07-19-2013, 17:39
Looks good Rory. I'm waiting for you to start on the sails, rigging and netting. Keep up the good work.

Cpt Kangaroo
07-20-2013, 22:56
Awesome thread Rory, we are all working vicariously through you. Looking forward to the next stage.

Devsdoc
07-21-2013, 18:06
Hi All,
First I must say I'm unhappy with my work. Seeing my ship as photos is not nice. I see Jims Thread tonight (which is so good) a bit of me thinks, why do I do this? This is the low point of the paint job. Lot of clean up work to do. I will keep going with this thread, I just went you all to know how I feel about it.

I have done this post photo's last night. But was working at Corfe Castle to day. I have painted the white lines on the ship. The lines are painted on the line of the gun ports.

5838

As I was doing the white colour, I dry-brushed the base.

5839

I last bit of this run is the rest of the hull under the bottom Wale. This can be white for the lead paint. Before 1779 all ships had lead painted bottoms, after this date more and more ships had copper bottoms. As the Russians sits for a long time in iced up harbour. I have painted my Russian fleet with old copper e.g. dark green.

5840

In the next day or two I will be doing the gun ports and try and put the rest of the hull right.
Be safe
Rory

7eat51
07-21-2013, 18:49
Hi Rory,

I am sure I speak for most if not all when I say you are doing us such a service with this thread. We're eagerly looking forward to your finished ship.

Thank you for sharing. :thumbsup:

Volunteer
07-21-2013, 20:46
It is coming along nicely Rory.

"Patience and perseverance have a magical effect before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish."
John Quincy Adams

Regards,
Vol

Nightmoss
07-21-2013, 20:58
I've already learned several things from your thread, and I'll be using the two tone brown/tan on my next ship for sure. That is a such a great effect, never would have thought of it. Also, I'm really envious of your dry brushing technique on the base. Mine end up too blotchy and yours looks fantastic and more realistic to the scale.

Looking forward to the rest of your build. :salute:

Berthier
07-22-2013, 04:56
Rory
Remember, you are always just one touch up away from perfection with painting :beer:

Devsdoc
07-22-2013, 17:12
It is coming along nicely Rory.

"Patience and perseverance have a magical effect before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish."
John Quincy Adams

Regards,
Vol

Hi All,
Oops! I forgot say I done the Hammock Nettings at the same time as the white lines.
Oh boy, That's heavy Vol, but thanks.
O.K. back to work! I painted the gun ports black and done a little re-painting.

5849
The start of the sails and masts. Colour of sails??? I have tried many colours of sails (see Rory's ships and harbour thread) from dark browns to white. I try to use 2 colours on the sails. You must use what you like the look of yourself. I paint the sails a base colour.

5850

Its a short one tonight, but I had a lot of patching in to do.
Be safe
Rory

Devsdoc
07-23-2013, 19:23
Rory
Remember, you are always just one touch up away from perfection with painting :beer:

Hi All,
Or cocking it up! Daniel :happy:

O.K. back to work.
I dry-brushed the sails with a darker colour at the bottom sides. Large area not just the corner and across the reefs

5856
5857

Using the same colour I painted the lines across and down the sails Sorry not a good photo.

5858

I then painted the yard arms.

5859

As I was painting the arms black, I painted the first side of the rat lines.

5860

This is more painting than talking tonight. I am beginning to like the ship again.
Be safe
Rory

7eat51
07-23-2013, 21:18
Rory, do you simply like the look of the sail color, or are you painting for a more weathered look? Would you paint the sails differently when building for display verses building for play?

Looking forward to seeing the rest of your work.

Vol's quote is pretty profound. I am going to share that one with my students this coming semester.

Devsdoc
07-23-2013, 22:10
Rory, do you simply like the look of the sail color, or are you painting for a more weathered look? Would you paint the sails differently when building for display verses building for play?

Looking forward to seeing the rest of your work.

Vol's quote is pretty profound. I am going to share that one with my students this coming semester.

Eric,
I have tried many colours for my ships sails (see my thread:- ships and harbour) the only one I did not like was the white and grey, wish now I had re-painted it before I rigged her. The Russians made lots of ships of one class as they had so much timber, but life of each ship was short. Around 10-15 years only. To me that smacks of a Ford car like (not the life) of building ships. So my Russian fleet looks all the same. Like the ford, but Black & White not just Black. That is why I paint all the Russian ships sails the same. This is my 11th ship of this fleet and only have one more to do. I will be glad to do the last one. I would not begin to think I could paint display ships. I'm not that good. I wish only show that with a little time and thought any one can do a model ship for a game table. David saves me with his "looks O.K. at arms length" thing. I hope this answers you my ship mate.
Be safe
Rory

Devsdoc
07-29-2013, 20:39
Been on the road over the last weekend. So no time for painting. Now back to the pot.

Done the upper masts

5970

Afterwards panted the lower masts. I find doing it this way round is better for me, as you are working from the inside of the mast to the out side.

5971

I then paint the tops and fighting tops. they are mainly black for all fleets. I paint the under side first.

5972

I now paint the 2nd side of the rat lines.

5973

The last part I do of the paint job is the iron bands around the lower masts. For this fleet I use black. Nelson liked his fleets to have yellow. before 1800 the bands were made of rope, So would be brown

5974

Just have to put it all together and start the rigging. That is the next part.
Be safe
Rory

7eat51
07-29-2013, 21:19
How many coats of paint do sails and such usually take? I notice the details are still very sharp, so it seems like the coats must be somewhat thin.

Good to see you back Rory. I have been missing this thread the last few days.

Devsdoc
07-30-2013, 15:50
Hi All,
Sorry! but this is a long one tonight. But I think I cannot do this any shorter.

I use a thick super glue. Langton say's to use thin glue, I find that I can control thicker glue better. You must watch for button tops on the masts.

5978

Re-drill the mast holes as painting can fill them in.

5979

I rub off a little of the paint from the bottom of the masts with fine sand paper. This stops a collar of paint being push up around the mast.

5980

I use a cocktail stick to put the glue on the model.

5981

By spinning the stick you can keep the glue on the end of the stick as you move into/onto the model. When in place stop spinning and let the glue drop.

5982

Do the foremast first. Line up the 3rd top with the jib or first jib if more than one. You may have to bend the jib or the bowsprit a little to made it fit.

5983

Make sure the main mast is a little higher than the foremast and a little backwards.

5984

Add the mizzen mast.

5985

As I have the glue to hand I glue the name to the base (badly this time).

5986

I spray the ship and base with matt varnish.

5987
5988

I use the pin again to clean the holes on the ship before rigging.

5989


How many coats of paint do sails and such usually take? I notice the details are still very sharp, so it seems like the coats must be somewhat thin.

Good to see you back Rory. I have been missing this thread the last few days.

Thanks Eric,
No! I do not thin the paint. Just as it comes from the tin/bottle. I do thin them as they get older. I paint as I have shown, and no more!
Be safe
Rory

Cpt Kangaroo
07-30-2013, 20:02
Rory, it is really coming together nicely.

Volunteer
07-30-2013, 23:14
Now it gets to the exciting stage, the rigging. I can't wait!

Looking good my friend!

Gunner
07-31-2013, 00:32
Good going Rory.:thumbsup:
Just a suggestion for your next one. Use a removable label. That way you can change the ships name for a different scenario.

QfunK!
07-31-2013, 00:39
Like many have stated before me, this thread makes me want to start another hobby project, though I don't know if my area games are into historical games. Eagerly waiting for the next set of pictures.

Berthier
07-31-2013, 07:03
Great progress Rory, I think you should receive the new "how to" medal! Seconds please?

Gaz67
07-31-2013, 07:14
Happily seconded...

crashx
07-31-2013, 10:02
Great post Rory, your instructions and pictures are well done!!! :thumbsup::beer::happy::thanks:

7eat51
07-31-2013, 10:56
Thanks for your response and continued sharing Rory. This is very instructive.

Bruce
07-31-2013, 16:16
Thanks Rory. I have much still to learn.
I build and paint them for gaming but they are still worth making a good job of, eh.
Bruce

Devsdoc
07-31-2013, 20:08
Hi! All,
Thanks for your feed-back Guys.


Good going Rory.:thumbsup:
Just a suggestion for your next one. Use a removable label. That way you can change the ships name for a different scenario.
Oh! Ed, I'm just a sad little man. Once named I can not change it. For me the name is the ship, and the ship the name. For historical battles I would match by Class not name. I may for a one off lay a historical name over the ships name. Sorry! SAD!:embarass:


Thanks Rory. I have much still to learn.
I build and paint them for gaming but they are still worth making a good job of, eh.
Bruce

Yes Bruce, you are like me. I do try too. :pray:

This is going to be hard! I will try not to repeat myself. So I may miss bits, If you think I have, post me and I will try and re-show.

The tools for rigging. 3 types of thread, Thick black sewing thread, and a black and lighter colour thin embroidery thread. All man made. Bent tweezers, Cocktail sticks, Nail scissors, Glue and cutters for rat lines

5991

All ways dip the thread end into the glue to make the thread end hard. Do not use short bits of thread. Make a loop knot and lay it over the base of the main mast and pull tight.

5992
5993

Add glue to the knot with cocktail stick and pull.

5994

Go around the mizzen mast under the fighting tops and over the crossjack. Knot.

5995

Pull and glue.

5996
5997

Lay thick thread next to bowsprit and glue.

5998

Cut ends of first thread as close to masts as you can

5999

Take the thread thou the hole in the bow.

6000

Go over the bowsprit and back thou the hole again.

6001

Go over the sprit-yard, under the bowsprit over the aver side sprit-yard and back into the bow hole again

6002
6003

Start going over the bowsprit and thou the hole as many times as you can. Knot, pull and glue

6004

Hope you understand all this
Be safe
Rory

Devsdoc
08-01-2013, 19:16
Good evening Shipmates,
I think I'm getting the hang of the photo's now. Sorry for "aver" should be "other". Hope you are getting all this.
Cut the 2 thin threads away. move the thick thread out of the way of the fore mast. Use a long thin thread and knot, glue and pull at the base of the fore mast.

6005

Get both threads and move they back to the main mast. Go under the maintopsail, thick to port and thin to starboard. Put both thru the hole at the main fighting top.

6006

Knot around the mast over the fighting top.Pull the thick thread back under the maintopsail and pull and glue. Cut away thick thread when dry.

6007

Knot and pull thin thread around mizzen mast at the top of the mizzen topsail and under the top. DO NOT GLUE.

6008

Go over the back of the 2 tops and on to the top of the mizzen topgallant. knot, pull and glue. At the topgallant only.

6009

Knot, pull and glue at the top of the maintopsail and under the top.

6010

Knot, pull (under the fore topsail) and glue, over the fore mast fighting top

.6011

Make shore you go to the back side of the Jib (stay sail) the side the wind blows from. Knot, pull and glue at the sprit-yard.

6012

That is it for tonight the ship should look like this. After you cut off the rest of the thread.

6013

By the way I said I would rig the Selafail 74. She has more sails set, so after I have done the standard rigging on the Venera (48). I will use the Selafail for the running rigging, when she has the standard rigging done.
Be safe.
Rory

Devsdoc
08-04-2013, 16:00
Hi Guy's,
Been away for the weekend. Just got in, I'm very tried so no post tonight. 400 mile round trip by van does not help to the rigging of ships.
Be safe
Rory

Whitejamest
08-04-2013, 20:33
Excuses, excuses!

Just kidding Rory, you're a good man for putting all the work in to making a tutorial. Get some rest!

- James

Devsdoc
08-05-2013, 19:56
Excuses, excuses!

Just kidding Rory, you're a good man for putting all the work in to making a tutorial. Get some rest!

- James

You can go off people, you know James :happy:

Hi All,
back to work. Knot, pull and glue some thin thread to the top of the mizzen mast.

6082

Go thou the hole at the stern starboard side from the out-side and pull.

6083

Take the thread and fish it thou between the mast and the rigging between the top two tops.

6084

Pull and work it under the bottom of the 2 tops. Pull, DO NOT GLUE



6085

Go thou the hole at the stern port side from the in-side. this is hard take your time..

6086

Go up to the top, top lay the thread over the top pull and glue hold for a short time down the starboard side.

6087

Go thou the hole on the starboard side again. .

6088

Go again thou and under the top as the first time and again thou the port hole from the in-side again.

6089

Go up to the top of the mast, Knot, Pull around mast and the end of thread and glue.

6090

Go under the top, top of the main mast. Knot, pull and glue.

6091

Go under the 2rd top from the top of the fore mast. Knot, pull and glue. Wait a minute and put a spot of glue on the jib sail. Lay the thread on the sail and hold.

6092

Add a small thin line of glue along the front edge of the jib and lay the thread on the glue. Knot, pull and glue around the front of the sprit-yard arm.

6093

It should look like this after you cut away the extra thread.

6094

Be safe
Rory

QfunK!
08-05-2013, 23:58
Wow! And to think that this miniature is about 2.5-3" long.

Cpt Kangaroo
08-06-2013, 16:52
Rory, I think that NASA would have been proud for this level of intricacy.

You know, there is one word that is forbidden in that organization.....

OOPS! :shock:

Devsdoc
08-06-2013, 17:17
Good evening Shipmates,
So we go on with the rigging. Now for the main mast. Knot, pull and glue thin thread at the top of the main mast.

6095

Go into the hole behind the main mast channel starboard side from the out-side.

6096

Lay the thread across the top middle rigging from the mizzen mast (2nd one down). From the in-side of the port side go thou the hole on the main channel.

6097

Pull up to the top, top lay the thread across the top and pull and glue.

6098

Go down to the starboard side the back from the out-side thou the hole again.

6099

Up we go again to the top middle rigging again and again lay it over again.

6100

Down the port side and (sorry) from the in-side back thou the hole.

6101

Back up to the top of the mast. Knot around the mast and thread, pull and glue.

6102

go to the fore mast above the topgallant yard. Knot, pull and glue.

6103

Knot, pull and glue the thread on the jibboom/flying jibboom joint.

6104

After cutting off the thread ends should look like this.

6105

Be safe and good night
Rory

Devsdoc
08-06-2013, 17:32
Wow! And to think that this miniature is about 2.5-3" long.

Don't think of the size, just the rigging. Bit by bit.


Rory, I think that NASA would have been proud for this level of intricacy.

You know, there is one word that is forbidden in that organization.....

OOPS! :shock:

Lots of oops's! Like some of the photo's, look at some of the painting too! :embarass:
Be safe
Rory

Nightmoss
08-06-2013, 18:05
Hey Rory.

I have a question, which you'll probably be getting to shortly, but do you ever wait to put the ratlines on until after the running rigging is done? I'm beginning to think that even with the extra lines it might be easier to put ratlines on last?

Devsdoc
08-07-2013, 04:04
Hey Rory.

I have a question, which you'll probably be getting to shortly, but do you ever wait to put the ratlines on until after the running rigging is done? I'm beginning to think that even with the extra lines it might be easier to put ratlines on last?

Hi Jim,
I would say No. The rat-lines are apart of the standing rigging. It can be hard getting the running rigging around the rat-lines sometimes. I feel it would be harder still to work the hard and unbendable rat-lines into place. I work from the in-side out. I know you have done it last from your postings. I think you where lucky that you where working on big model's. I am not God so I maybe wrong.
Be safe
Rory

7eat51
08-07-2013, 07:20
Rory, this is great stuff. I must admit, I am looking forward to trying my hand at painting. Rigging is another thing entirely. I look at the size of my hands and the size of the ship and think, "No way." I appreciate your comment, "Don't think of the size, just the rigging. Bit by bit."

Nightmoss
08-07-2013, 10:19
Hi Jim,
I would say No. The rat-lines are apart of the standing rigging. It can be hard getting the running rigging around the rat-lines sometimes. I feel it would be harder still to work the hard and unbendable rat-lines into place. I work from the in-side out. I know you have done it last from your postings. I think you where lucky that you where working on big model's. I am not God so I maybe wrong.
Be safe
Rory

Thanks for the reply, Rory. I may give it a go sometime, but for now I'll continue putting the ratlines on between placement of the standing rigging and running rigging.

I just finished another 64 gun ship and I'm almost at the point where I may pass on future running rigging altogether and go with just the standing rigging. I've noticed that running rigging has a tendency to loosen the standing rigging lines and it certainly increases the amount of time it takes to wrap up the ship construction.

Gaz67
08-07-2013, 10:53
Are you sure.....


I am not God so

I know this may be seen as a cheap shot and please take it in good humour, but it made me laugh :happy:

Gunner
08-07-2013, 11:34
Makes me wonder how many SOG ships I'll butcher:help: before I get it right. Or if I have the patience (ha, ha), just wait and watch others customize their ships first.

Devsdoc
08-07-2013, 16:35
Rory, this is great stuff. I must admit, I am looking forward to trying my hand at painting. Rigging is another thing entirely. I look at the size of my hands and the size of the ship and think, "No way." I appreciate your comment, "Don't think of the size, just the rigging. Bit by bit."

Hi Eric,
I find doing the rigging more fun and relaxing than painting. As long as the holes are drilled and clear, think of just one part or mast at a time. I to have large hands. Do the standing rigging only at first on one of your 74,s. As they are big enough and are the biggest number in a fleet, so you can hide the first one. like sheep in a flock.
Be safe
Rory


Thanks for the reply, Rory. I may give it a go sometime, but for now I'll continue putting the ratlines on between placement of the standing rigging and running rigging.

I just finished another 64 gun ship and I'm almost at the point where I may pass on future running rigging altogether and go with just the standing rigging. I've noticed that running rigging has a tendency to loosen the standing rigging lines and it certainly increases the amount of time it takes to wrap up the ship construction.

Jim,
I just love your models. Yes! that can happen! Your ships are your ships, you do what you wish with your ships. I would be very happy to play with your ships any time, any place.
Be safe
Rory


Are you sure.....



I know this may be seen as a cheap shot and please take it in good humour, but it made me laugh :happy:

Gaz,
Jane, my better half, laughs. Spend 10 minutes with her and you will know "I'm no God"
Be safe
Rory


Makes me wonder how many SOG ships I'll butcher:help: before I get it right. Or if I have the patience (ha, ha), just wait and watch others customize their ships first.

Hi Ed,
I have seen your album! :smack: :salute:
Be safe
Rory

Hi Shipmates,
Before I go on. If you have more than one jib sail, you may have to drop this part of the rigging from the main mast to the fore mast to match the 2nd jib sail.

6106

I will post more on rigging tonight.
Be safe
Rory

Devsdoc
08-07-2013, 17:34
Its me again,
So the last or fore mast. This mast is just the same as the main mast. The only thing different from both is this is the last bit and you have more room to work in.
6107
6108
6109
6110
6111
6112
6113
6114

Add glue to the end of the flying jibboom, and loop thread around it and pull side wards (port).

6115

Add glue to the end of the port side spritsail yard. Loop thread around it and pull towards the ship. From the in-side go thou the hole by the port cathead.

6116

Go over the middle port side of the spritsail yard, under the bowsprit. Go over the starboard middle spritsail yard and back to the ship.

6117

Go thou the hole by the starboard cathead, from the out-side.

6118

Add glue to the end of the starboard spritsail yard. Loop thread around end.

6119

Again add glue to the end of the flying jibboom. Loop thread around this, pull down and back.

6120

Put glue on the end of the dolphin striker. loop thread around it and pull

6121

After you have cut off the lose ends. your ship should look like this.

6122

So the next bit will be the rat-lines
Be safe
Rory

Nightmoss
08-07-2013, 17:50
Very interested to see the ratlines work, Rory. I think I hate putting those on more than anything in the total assembly. Cheers!

Devsdoc
08-07-2013, 17:57
Hi All,
See oops! I did not add this photo to the last post. I had to edit the last post for around 10 minutes before I saw what I had done.

6124

Be safe
Rory

Devsdoc
08-07-2013, 18:04
Sorry Jim,
I have not done the rat-lines yet, Just the shrouds.
Be safe
Rory

Gunner
08-07-2013, 18:12
Rory, is your base the same size as SOG, 50x75mm?

Devsdoc
08-07-2013, 19:30
Rory, is your base the same size as SOG, 25x50mm?

Hi Ed.
No! I use Langton bases. This ship is a small 48 gun 2 deck SOL. So I use his 3rd rate base 40mm x 75mm. It maybe a little to big for the size of the ship, but she is a SOL and not a frigate (one deck). For them I use 40mm x 65mm. For unrated ships I use 20mm x 50mm and 1st rate's 40mm x 85mm. It seems he keeps them all the same (rated ships) across, but adds length to each size. 4th rated ships fall between base size's. So I could have used the smaller base for her. But as she is not as fast as a frigate I thought the bigger base best, and more in line with her job. For this one there is no right answer!
If SOG bases are 25mm x 50mm, it's funny that they use smaller bases for a larger scale model ship?
Be safe
Rory

Devsdoc
08-07-2013, 19:42
Very interested to see the ratlines work, Rory. I think I hate putting those on more than anything in the total assembly. Cheers!


Sorry Jim,
I have not done the rat-lines yet, Just the shrouds.
Be safe
Rory

Jim,
Sorry! I may have misread your post.
Be safe
Rory

Gunner
08-07-2013, 20:24
Rory,

Sorry for the confusion. My post should read 50x75mm.

Devsdoc
08-08-2013, 17:20
Hi All,
Now for the rat-lines. I start from the middle of the spur. Working outwards I use them so. Lower main, fore, mizzen, upper main, fore and mizzen. On some spurs the upper mizzen is across the top of the spur.

6125

Look for the name tag in the bottom left side. This is the right side to be on the out-side, pointing out from the ship. Look for the straight edge on the main mast rat-line, this goes to towards the bow. As do all the rat-lines on that side of the spur.

6126

Cut free the first rat-line. I do it in the order as said above. (main)

6127

Put the rest to one side. I only do one at a time.

6128

Using the bent tweezers and hold the R/L next to the mast.

6129

If too long, cut away from the top. The blocks should rest on the channel and the top under the fighting top.

6130

Turn the R/L over and add a spot of glue to the top and bottom. As I have only 2 hands, I use the glue straight from the bottle.

6131

Lay R/L from the top to bottom, holding the R/L with the tweezers. I also use the closed tweezers to push the R/L to the channel. If you push at the top it can move the R/L around the mast.(bad times) So push the bottom haft of the R/L only.

6132

I then move to the fore mast, doing as above again. I find the main mast the hardest to do, as you have less space to work in. So it gets easier as you go.

6133

I then do the mizzen R/L.

6134

Wait for a minute or two, and do it all over again on the other side.

6135

I now do the upper R/L'S. I again start with the main mast. I hate having to cut them to size as I feel they should be made to fit. Fit to the mast under the top, and go to the outer edge of the fighting top. Glue, move around as above.

6136

I wait again, turn the ship over and do the other side.

6137

I seem to be missing the last photo Back soon.
Rory
5 minutes later, No! Just bad editing on my part. This is the finished ship.

6138

Devsdoc
08-08-2013, 17:53
Shipmates,
I must now do the standing on the "Selafail 74" before I can start the running rigging. Why! the "Selafail" has more sails set than the "Venera", so will be more helpful. Bad planning on my part. I will do this as fast as I can. I will be back with, as Jane call's it "stringing". I know for some of you this is as far you will wish to go. There is more. But post if you wish and I will answer you. Thanks so far for liking this thread.
Be safe
Rory

Nightmoss
08-08-2013, 18:43
You make the ratlines look so easy!!!?? Maybe the more I do them the easier it will get, but I can tell you from my experience that they are incredibly fiddly and love to pop off even if you just touch the bottom. Thanks for the tips and photos.

Volunteer
08-09-2013, 12:35
Wow Rory, you have been busy! I love this thread:salute:. And I have learned a few things I am going to try:hmmm:. Sorry for not commenting for the last week. There was absolutely no data or wyfi where we were:erk:.

Regards,
Vol

Gunner
08-09-2013, 12:59
Jane call's it "stringing".

Don't forget to have Jane help. You know what they say, "The family that plays together, stays together".
At least that's what my second X told me.:hmmm:

Devsdoc
08-09-2013, 15:21
You make the ratlines look so easy!!!?? Maybe the more I do them the easier it will get, but I can tell you from my experience that they are incredibly fiddly and love to pop off even if you just touch the bottom. Thanks for the tips and photos.

Jim,
I cannot paint like you. I try, but no. But I do try. Don't let a piece brass get into your head my friend. I know you will win in the end. Try working up-side down on one side!
Be safe
Rory


Wow Rory, you have been busy! I love this thread:salute:. And I have learned a few things I am going to try:hmmm:. Sorry for not commenting for the last week. There was absolutely no data or wyfi where we were :erk:.
Regards,
Vol


Good Vol,
Time for you and your family. I'm so glad you are home, my friend.
Be safe
Rory




Don't forget to have Jane help. You know what they say, "The family that plays together, stays together".
At least that's what my second X told me. :hmmm:

Ed,
We play a lot together. We also play apart. Sometimes we need to do our own thing. "Stringing" is one thing Jane thinks is best I do alone.
Be safe
Rory

P.S. I'm one of the luckiest men in the world.

Devsdoc
08-09-2013, 19:14
Not long my Shipmates,
I have just finished the standing rigging :thumbsup:. Will do the rat-lines tomorrow :happy:. So hope to start running rigging at the latest next week :salute:. If life does not get in the way. :pray:
Be safe
Rory

Devsdoc
08-10-2013, 18:07
Hi All,
Done the rat-lines. Will start running rigging soon

6146

Be safe
Rory

7eat51
08-11-2013, 08:51
Rory, this has been incredibly helpful thus far. I especially like your comments such as "If you push at the top it can move the R/L around the mast.(bad times) So push the bottom haft of the R/L only." This is the type of advice that will save newbies like me a lot of angst. :hatsoff:

Devsdoc
08-11-2013, 09:39
The running rigging. I use Rod Langton's book on painting and rigging as a guild. I have made a number of changes which I think help me. I do longer runs with one thread. I use less knots. This in my eyes would help Jims tension problem. I start on the yardarm ends and go around the mast on the opposite side. If I can I always go between the mast and rat-lines. I go over or under the tops as I think is best for the angle of the line I'm working on. As I'm only going for the look of running rigging, I think its O.K. I must say Rods book is my bible and the best 10 I have spent.
I use a lighter colour thread for the running rigging. Add a spot of glue to the bottom front side of the jib. Lay the end of the thread on the glue and press.

Sorry Guys,
NO PHOTOS came up????????? Just lost at hours work. NOT HAPPY :angry:

Devsdoc
08-11-2013, 10:06
So! I try Again. I'm doing it in smaller blocks. I'm still :angry: but life goes on. So as I was saying. 1st photo.

6170

Pull thou the fore main channel. Pull, knot and glue.

6171

Knot, pull and glue thread to the end of the spritsail yardarm.

6172

Pull thread under the fore mast topsail and around the opposite side of the fore mast. Between the mast and the rat-lines.

6173

Go back to the opposite side spritsail yardarm. Add glue to yardarm pull and loop around arm.

6174

O.K. I'm still :angry: Sorry! I will post more later.
Be safe
Rory

Devsdoc
08-11-2013, 11:38
Hi All,
I'm now loading the photo's first and adding text last.
Cut the ends off.
Knot, pull and glue thread to fore topsail yardarm.

6175

Go back under the main topsail and around the main under the fighting top.

6176

Go back under the main topsail. Go up to the opposite foresail yardarm. The one below the one I started with. Add glue to the yardarm pull and loop around the arm.

6177

Going up behind the fore topsail to the fore mast. Go over and around the front of the yardarm and down to the opposite side. Add glue to the yardarm. Pull and loop around.

6178

Go back under the main topsail again and back to the opposite fore topsail yardarm. Add Glue to the yardarm Pull and loop around.

6179

Go behind the fore topgallant sail and around to mast. Coming down the opposite side behind the sail (Note I missed, and went in front of the sail on the photo and had it re-do). You should be back where you started this run. Add glue to the yardarm pull and loop around.

6180

It should look like this. when dry cut ends.
I will ad to this post soon
Be safe
Rory
6181

Devsdoc
08-11-2013, 13:06
Knot, pull and glue thread to the fore topgallant yard arm.

6182

Go back to the main mast at to top of the topsail yardarm. go around the main mast and back to the opposite fore topgallant yardarm. Add glue to the arm, pull and loop around.

6183

At the top of the fore mast add glue. Pull and loop around mast

6184

Go back to the start of the this run. Add glue pull and loop around arm.

6185

This is the bowsprit and for mast done. only 2 small bits too do. then we move to the main

6186

I'm not a happy bunny about the lost of my post. But I'm better now :happy:
Be safe
Rory

Devsdoc
08-11-2013, 15:10
Hi All
Some things I missed in the 2nd time of writing. The jib. If you have 2 or more jibs. Start with the first one and do not glue and knot at the channel, just go back to the 2nd one lay a dot of glue on the bottom of it pull and hold the thread for a minute on the glue. Do the 3rd one as a single jib. At the end of the rigging I will paint over all the thread on the sails and yardarm ends.
This is all for a day or two. Sorry! but life.
Be safe
Rory

Devsdoc
08-12-2013, 18:02
Hi!, A short one tonight.
Put a spot of glue on the bottom corner of the fore sail. press the thread onto the glue.

6198

Run the thread back to the hole behind the main mast channel.

6199

Go thou the hole, pull, knot, pull again and glue. After a minute or two cut off thread end.

6200

Repeat all of the above on the opposite side. If the courses are not set you can miss this bit out.
Be safe
Rory

Rabbit
08-14-2013, 12:17
Hi, thank you for the inspiration.

Could you tell me how many holes you drill in the hull for the rigging?
And where the holes in the masts are cut

Vol helps out in his post 07-17-2013, 05:43, but I am afraid I am new to this lark and would prefer to reduce the risk of a NASA moment.

You say "I drilled holes in the main mast fighting top."
I assume this is above the platform where the crew would stand but below the next joint up, so the hole is where the two sections of mast are lashed together and the hole will be at the TOP of this double section? (Photo Please?).

Your close-ups (post 08-06-2013, 23:17) appear to show rigging at the BOTTOM of this section, so I may be and probably am wrong in my assumption?
Do you cut holes in only this mast or in all three? If only the main mast, why? Are the others too weak?

Also in the bow and behind the Catheads and Channels (both sides)
Catheads I understand.

"In the channels" I assume these holes are cut in the sides of the ship, where it protrudes above the deck? (In the region where the scuppers would be?)
Where your photos (post 08-06-2013, 01:56) show holes, they appear to be through the top of the stern attachment, Am I correct in this?
I believe therefore there are eight holes along the sides of the ship, four down each side, the foremost of which will be behind the cathead, the others will be (paired) somewhere behind each of the masts?

Where do you drill the hole(s) in the bow?

I assume there are two holes, either side of the bowsprit, I now have a model in front of me and can see an area where two holes could be cut, through what is the area of curving timber. (I don’t know what the nautical term would be).

I have logged on, on a different PC with a newer brighter screen, and I believe that the bow holes (2) are as close to the centre line of the ship…(post 07-17-2013, 00:30) correct?
In that same post, it appears that these holes (for the standing rigging) are behind the ledges (terminology?) on the outside of the hull, thus the standing rigging is secured aft of the rat-lines?

Finally, both you and I think James (White) use black (tarred?) thread for the standing rigging and brown (natural) coloured thread for the running rigging?
Was this common practice for all navies?

I intend to try Horse (tail) Hair for the rigging, I have both black and brown (dirty grey anyway), has anyone tried this. I have a vague recollection that this was “someone’s” recommendation?

I note, now I can actually see your photos, that you have a whitish grey bloom on the masts in many of your photos. I assume this is a bloom caused by the varnish, this seems to be a very common fault in the 28mm Napoleonic figure modelling scene, I have encountered it only with GW Purity Seal. I have never heard of it happening with the Army Painter series of sprays.

The cause appears to be moisture, either condensation or excess humidity. The TMP (The Miniatures Page) site for more information. It seems it is better to spray in a warm dry atmosphere, should any cloudiness appear, you can do a number of things. re-spray, re-paint or try passing warm air (hair dryer) over the model(s).

Lovely work, I hope I can come somewhere close.

Rabbit.

Volunteer
08-14-2013, 15:56
Hi, thank you for the inspiration.

In that same post, it appears that these holes (for the standing rigging) are behind the ledges (terminology?) on the outside of the hull, thus the standing rigging is secured aft of the rat-lines?

Finally, both you and I think James (White) use black (tarred?) thread for the standing rigging and brown (natural) coloured thread for the running rigging?
Was this common practice for all navies?

I intend to try Horse (tail) Hair for the rigging, I have both black and brown (dirty grey anyway), has anyone tried this. I have a vague recollection that this was “someone’s” recommendation?

I note, now I can actually see your photos, that you have a whitish grey bloom on the masts in many of your photos. I assume this is a bloom caused by the varnish, this seems to be a very common fault in the 28mm Napoleonic figure modelling scene, I have encountered it only with GW Purity Seal. I have never heard of it happening with the Army Painter series of sprays.

The cause appears to be moisture, either condensation or excess humidity. The TMP (The Miniatures Page) site for more information. It seems it is better to spray in a warm dry atmosphere, should any cloudiness appear, you can do a number of things. re-spray, re-paint or try passing warm air (hair dryer) over the model(s).

Lovely work, I hope I can come somewhere close.

Rabbit.

Rabbit,
-The "Ledges" are the channels the shrouds attach to. on either side of a ship.
-The standing rigging was always tarred to prevent moisture from affecting the tension of the lines. Wet lines stretch. Thus the black colour. Plus these lines were "fixed" in place, unlike running rig lines that were constantly changed and handled so they were not tarred.
-For a time I was using horse hair to rig my ships (see my web site). It is the right thickness for the scale and doesn't stretch. The trouble was that super glue didn't work very well on it. Shampooing the hair to remove the oils helped a bit. It was also very brrittle and had a tendency to break when knotting. I have sense gone back to waxed thread. I recently bought several spools of fine fly tying thread, but have yet to rig a ship with it. Perhaps after I finish my Dutch fleet I will try it on my next fleet, as I don't want ships in one fleet to look different from the others. British ships I don't care about since they obtained their ships from all nations.
-The "whitish grey bloom " is most likely glare from the matt sealer Rory uses to coat his ships before rigging. I have this same effect in my photos.

The rest of your questions Rory can answer. I work with Navwar, Davco, GHQ as well as Langton ships and they are very different as to where you can drill holes for rigging. I am not as familiar with Langton's rigging guide's drilling directions yet as I haven't built a Langton ship since my generous shipmate Rory gifted me with the guide (thank you again Rory!) The Navwar ships require building up bulwarks and channels in order to make room for holes and many have no catheads at all, so they have to be added.

Regards,
Vol

PS: Rory, I can finally see all of your magnificent photos.

Devsdoc
08-14-2013, 16:26
Hi Rab,
Here go's!
I drill only the main mast. Why? this is the place the thin and thick threads meet. Drill at the fighting top (post 1, 4th photo the top mast the one on it's side.)
The long ledges = channels. Drill aft of the channels (ledges). Thou the bulwarks (rail that runs around the ship) for each mast. The channels hold the rat-lines.
Yes, that is why I glue the stern on first.
If the cat head is big enough Drill thou it itself. Or you can drill in front of the cathead e.g. going forward. Its up to you and the space on the model.
No, one hole only thou the bow itself. below the headrails (Curving timber) The thread goes over the bowsprit and around and thou this hole a number of times.
Yes, Standing rigging holds the mast in place. So is tarred. The running rigging moves the sails. It goes thou blocks, tar would foul the blocks and stop the running of the ship.
That is up to you, your ships! I would not use horse hair.
Yes, it was a cold night and a new can. not the best time or way to spray. thanks for your tips.
Hope this helps you Rab. If not re-post. :salute:
Be safe
Rory

P.S. As I had your post open I did not see Vols post (thanks Vol)

Devsdoc
08-14-2013, 16:43
Hi Shipmates,
I had a problem with my last long post. So I'm going to brake this one down. I sat here for over an hour only to lose all photos and had to redo the lot (NOT AGAIN my friends).
So! this is a long run, have a long thread ready. I have only gone so far, but stopped at a good place. Add a spot of glue to the front of the mainsail (course). Press thread to the sail. If the course is not set, start at the mainsail yardarm. By knot, pull and gluing.

6205

Go to the rear hole at the stern and go thou from the out-side.

6206

Go to the lower arm of the spanker. Add glue to the arm. Pull and loop thread around the lower arm.

6207

Have a walk around as the next bit is hard. On the same side go between the spanker the standing rigging. Then go between the mizzen mast and the rat-line (Above the fighting top).

6208

Go over the cross jack and under the mizzen topsail, then go around the front of the mizzen mast. And back thou the opposite side again between the mast and the rat-line. Just do it slowly and one step at a time.

6209

Have a cup of tea/coffee. work the thread thou the standing rigging so it again between the spanker and the standing rigging Go back down to the lower arm. Add glue to the arm pull and loop thread around the arm. You will feel good with yourself at this point.

6210

From here go to the opposite stern hole and go thou from the in-side out.

6211

Go to the upper spanker arm. Add glue to the arm. Pull and loop thread around arm.

6212

:g&t: :drinks: :rum: Its all down hill from here.
Be safe my ex-shipmates
Rory

Devsdoc
08-14-2013, 18:02
I work with Navwar, Davco, GHQ as well as Langton ships and they are very different as to where you can drill holes for rigging. I am not as familiar with Langton's rigging guide's drilling directions yet as I haven't built a Langton ship since my generous shipmate Rory gifted me with the guide (thank you again Rory!) The Navwar ships require building up bulwarks and channels in order to make room for holes and many have no catheads at all, so they have to be added.

Regards,
Vol

PS: Rory, I can finally see all of your magnificent photos.

Hi Vol,
Some of Langton's ships have no bulwarks Or room to drill. So I got a fine chain from a dolls house shop. By cutting the 2nd link, the 1st link gives you a small ring. This I glue to the side of the ship (Half above the deck and use this hole to hold the rigging. Gave me time and I will fish out a ship I have done this too and photo it and post. This would save you building up a whole bulwark on a ship that does not have one. Thanks for helping me, help Rab.
Be safe my friend
Rory

Volunteer
08-14-2013, 18:44
Rory,

"Be safe my ex-shipmates"??? Are you going somwhere? Are we exes?

I tried using small chain for the ensign lanyard on the spanker of one of my ships, but never thought about using like you suggest. I have a lot more Navwar ships so I'll have to try it. Thanks.

Regards,
Vol

Devsdoc
08-14-2013, 18:51
Rory,

"Be safe my ex-shipmates"??? Are you going somwhere? Are we exes?

I tried using small chain for the ensign lanyard on the spanker of one of my ships, but never thought about using like you suggest. I have a lot more Navwar ships so I'll have to try it. Thanks.

Regards,
Vol

I'm thinking after this last run of rigging, some of our shipmates will hate me. this part is the hardest to do. :dazed: I may be crossed off a lot of Christmas card list after today
Be safe
Rory

7eat51
08-14-2013, 23:03
I'm thinking after this last run of rigging, some of our shipmates will hate me. this part is the hardest to do. :dazed: I may be crossed off a lot of Christmas card list after today
Be safe
Rory

Actually, I am adding you to mine.

This has been an incredibly informative and helpful thread, and the interaction between members in terms of Q&A has been wonderful.

Rabbit
08-15-2013, 12:49
Wow, Again!

Thank you both, Rory and Vol.

Ok Christmas card list or not, I for one am not worthy.

Nice clear explanations that even a newbie like me can follow, even if I cannot hope to replicate.
Horse Hair is out then, the Memsaab will be pleased.

I was cleaning the flash off a Langton NB/10, Ex French 80 gun at quarters, last night, I noted that the hull side actually have dimples in the “bulwarks”, which seem to be in the correct places for the rigging holes Rory has explained. Is this a coincidence or Mr Langton being kind?

I found a similar dimple in the fighting top of the mainmast, on the bit that the crew would stand upon, this was a bit rougher than the others, and may have been a casting flaw, rather than an indication of where to drill. This would indicate a vertical hole but from your earlier posts, the hole may be horizontal?

Does anyone know if the Langton’s make such indications in the masts?

No such dimples found in the DAVCO hulls I aquired at the same time...

For those of us in the UK after fine chain, try Squires Model and Craft Tools of Bognor Regis, West Sussex, I do not know if they will supply abroad.

Rabbit

Devsdoc
08-15-2013, 14:32
Good evening Shipmates,
O.K. I lied, This is the hardest bit.
If you look from behind the ship, on the mizzen mast you will see the first piece of the standing rigging you did in the middle of all the rigging (the one the shrouds passed thou, over). Your thread must go around this one thread only (use tweezers). Lay it on the fighting top. pull about 90% of the thread thou. Then work the thread under the fighting top and pull the rest thou.

6213

Go back to the upper arm of the spanker again. Add a spot of glue to the arm. Pull and loop around the arm. No Joke this time, the bad bits are behind us.

6214

Into that hole again at the back end of the hull, from the out-side. And back up to the top arm of the spanker again. Add glue to the arm again. Pull and Loop around the arm

6215

Go to the opposite side of the hull and from the in-side go thou the hole.

6216

Go up to mainsail yardarm. Add glue to the arm. Pull and loop around the arm.

6217

Go up behind the mainsail to the main mast. Go around the front of the mast and back down the opposite side behind the mainsail again to the mainsail yardarm. Add glue to the arm. Pull and loop around arm.

6218

Go back to that hole again. Go thou again, If it is full just go around the rigging instead of the hole. Pull, knot, pull tight and glue.

6219

After it has dried, cut of the end. Put a spot of glue on the front of the mainsail (opposite side to which you started). If the mainsail is not set miss this bit out.

6220

As above go to the last hole again. Pull, knot, pull tight and glue.

6221

So if you still have a ship and not a ball of metal and thread. You can rest a bit as I do and photo the next bit
Be safe
Rory

csadn
08-15-2013, 16:25
"Thou"?

Devsdoc
08-15-2013, 16:33
Wow, Again!

Thank you both, Rory and Vol.

Ok Christmas card list or not, I for one am not worthy.

Nice clear explanations that even a newbie like me can follow, even if I cannot hope to replicate.
Horse Hair is out then, the Memsaab will be pleased.

I was cleaning the flash off a Langton NB/10, Ex French 80 gun at quarters, last night, I noted that the hull side actually have dimples in the “bulwarks”, which seem to be in the correct places for the rigging holes Rory has explained. Is this a coincidence or Mr Langton being kind?

I found a similar dimple in the fighting top of the mainmast, on the bit that the crew would stand upon, this was a bit rougher than the others, and may have been a casting flaw, rather than an indication of where to drill. This would indicate a vertical hole but from your earlier posts, the hole may be horizontal?

Does anyone know if the Langton’s make such indications in the masts?

No such dimples found in the DAVCO hulls I aquired at the same time...

For those of us in the UK after fine chain, try Squires Model and Craft Tools of Bognor Regis, West Sussex, I do not know if they will supply abroad.

Rabbit

Hi Rab,
I do not know? It maybe so. I think not. Or maybe the newer models (higher make numbers) do? I would not plan to think that it is so, as it may not be so. This is a mad answer! Don't rely on it.
Be safe
Rory

Devsdoc
08-15-2013, 20:09
"Thou"?

Sorry Chris,
It should read "through" My spelling is bad. It has taken me years to get it to what it is now. The biggest help for me was to write a small book by hand and some good friends who helped me loads. I now write more because of spell-check. If this was not around, I would not be here now.
Be safe
Rory

Hi Vol,
This is from one of my first ships. Painting is not so hot. But it shows the rings being used at the base of the fore mast. Hope this helps you my friend. I think rigging has always been my thing. I now paint better and one day it will match the rigging. I have one ship I c##ked-up the drilling and used a ring to repair the great big hole I made.
Be safe
Rory

6258

6259

.

Volunteer
08-16-2013, 14:43
Interesting Rory. Thanks for the illustration.

Devsdoc
08-16-2013, 15:29
Now for the top bit of the main mast. This is not so hard as what has been done before.
Add glue to the end of the main topsail yardarm. Knot and pull.

6267

Cross over and go around the mizzen mast. At the top of the top rat-lines. Do not go through the rat line like I did.

The wrong way

6268

The right way

6269

Go to the opposite side main topgallant yardarm. The next one up from the one you started with. Add glue to the arm, pull and loop around the arm.

6270

Go to the top of the mast. Add glue to the mast, pull and loop around the mast.

6271

Go to the opposite side of the topgallant yardarm. Add glue to the arm, pull and loop around the arm.

6272

Go back to the mizzen mast. At the same place as before. Go round the mizzen mast on the opposite side you have just done.

6273

Go to the opposite main topsail yardarm. Add glue to the end of the arm, pull and loop around the arm. NOTE you must pass through the best way you can round the standing and running rigging you have done before.

6274

Go up behind the topgallant sail and around the front of the mast.

6275

Go down behind the opposite side of the topgallant sail

6276

You should be back at the point you started this from. Add glue to the arm, pull and loop around the arm. That is the main mast done.

6277

So one more mast to do. The space to work in is the smallest, but you know now what's what.
Be safe
Rory

csadn
08-16-2013, 16:36
Sorry Chris,
It should read "through" My spelling is bad.

For a moment I was thinking "Man, he's really gone Hardcore with this -- talking like someone from the period...." ;)

Devsdoc
08-16-2013, 17:58
For a moment I was thinking "Man, he's really gone Hardcore with this -- talking like someone from the period...." ;)

No Chris,
Just told I was dumb for over 30 years. I got into 17th century Surgery. I made myself a pain by asking lots of people in the know for help. One night they got together (with Jane my partner) and cornered me at a party. Saying that I knew more than they did about Barber-Surgeon's, and told me to write it all down. They helped me for over 1, 1/2 years. No one laughed at my s##t writing, just helped line by line, page by page. They got it published for me in the end. This is before I had a computer. I cannot tell you how much that helped me. I now do talks at the Royal College of Surgeons (London) and go around schools and museums doing talks. I did a display at the opening of the new Mary Rose museum this year. I hope you understand Chris, you hurt me. I see so many spelling mistakes on this site, no one say's a thing. Just you to me. I only wish to help people in a way I can. As I was helped in the past. It is hard work, Chris, trying to show something in away That all of you can understand, which for me is hard to do. The only help I'm getting, is from Vol. Just say Chris, and I will be happy to stop.
Be safe
Rory

csadn
08-17-2013, 18:51
I hope you understand Chris, you hurt me.

No insult was meant -- I actually thought you were going for an old-style phrasing. My mistake. Apologies.

Devsdoc
08-17-2013, 19:41
No insult was meant -- I actually thought you were going for an old-style phrasing. My mistake. Apologies.

Hi Chris,
I would love to phrase well, in old, new or new ago style. I over reacted, it is one of my soft spots my writing. I thank you for your apology and I too apologise for my out burst.
Be safe
Rory

Gunner
08-17-2013, 19:50
I'm glad we're back to playing nice.:drinks:

Berthier
08-18-2013, 00:01
Rory
Your posts have been remarkably clear and helpful to newbies (amongst whom I count myself) to ship building, painting and rigging. Whatever you have written and however it has been written has so evidently been a labour of love that no-one would dream to criticise your efforts which have been detailed and fascinating. Keep it up and know we appreciate the time this must be taking you. I would have thought by recording the process you have more than doubled your build time, so again well done :salute:

Devsdoc
08-18-2013, 18:15
Hi Shipmates,
So we are coming to the end of this thread. Maybe two or three more posts and it is done. I have two problems, the space between the mizzen and the main mast and the rigging you have already done. You must weave the thread through the rigging as best you can. Do bit at a time and see how it lays. I find I must pull the thread out and go a different way a number of times. By this time you will be better at handling the thread, so it is not so hard as you think. And that British ships are different from other nations. As this is a Russian ship that is the way I'm going, but I will talk about the British ships later.
Knot thread to mizzen topsail yardarm pull and add glue.

6316

Go forward to the opposite side main mast between the mast and rat line at the fighting top and go under the maintop sail.

6317

Go around the main mast and back under the standing rigging and maintop again. This time go on the out side of the rat line to the crossjack. Add glue to the arm pull, loop thread around arm.

6318

Go up behind the mizzen topsail and around the mizzen mast and down the opposite side. Add glue to the crossjack, pull and loop around the arm.

6319

Go forward to the main mast, going on opposite side and the out side of the rat lines go under the maintop sail and standing rigging again. Go under the maintop and back between the mast and rat line. Go up to the mizzen topsail yardarm. Add glue to the arm, pull and loop around arm.

6320

Go up behind the mizzen topgallant, around the front of the mizzen mast.

6321

Going behind the topgallant again the back to where we started this run. Add glue to the arm, pull and loop around arm.

6322

Knot, pull and glue to the mizzen topgallant yardarm.

6323

Go to the main mast opposite side and under the main topgallant sail and the top and standing rigging.

6324

Back to the opposite mizzen topgallant yardarm. Add glue to arm, pull and loop around arm.

6325

Go to the top of the mast add glue to the top of the mast and loop around. TIP If the standing rigging is loose wrap the thread around it too, to tighten it.

6326

Going back to the start of this run. Add glue to the arm, pull and loop around arm.

6327

Cut away extra thread and the main part is done. :drinks:
Be safe
Rory

Cmmdre
08-18-2013, 18:44
Intense at that scale. You're really throwing down an excellent tutorial Rory. :hatsoff:

Devsdoc
08-18-2013, 19:57
So, this is the rigged ship. She is not finished, but well on the way. I will do that in the next post.

6328

6329

6330

As said before the British are different. I have no British ships to rig. I will try to tell you how!
The British rigged the mizzen mast back. To the top arm of the spanker. I rigged the Russian ships mizzen mast in two runs. Two arms, the crossjack and the mizzen topsail, and one arm. The mizzen topgallant.
For the British, only do the crossjack like the Russian one, to the main mast. For the next two arms, topsail and topgallant. Do as for the Russian ship but go the end of the spanker top yardarm instead. Start at the topgallant go to the spanker and glue. From the spanker go to the topsail yardarm and glue (the one below). Go up behind the sail, around and down the opposite side glue etc. and back to the spanker and glue. Go to the opposite topgallant yardarm glue etc. Go to the top of the mast and glue. And back to the start of the run and glue.

6331

6332

Hope you understand the above.
Be safe
Rory

Gunner
08-18-2013, 20:33
Way to go Rory. I'll say it again, wish I had the skill or patience to fully rig my ships.:envy:

Gaz67
08-19-2013, 05:36
Agree with you 100% Gunner, I know if I attempted anything like this it would result in a big ball of thread glued to itself and lots of very very bad language...

Devsdoc
08-19-2013, 12:26
Way to go Rory. I'll say it again, wish I had the skill or patience to fully rig my ships.:envy:


Agree with you 100% Gunner, I know if I attempted anything like this it would result in a big ball of thread glued to itself and lots of very very bad language...

Ed, Gaz,
It was said today to Eric, and has been said by others and myself. Don't see it as a job, but as fun. Do a bit at a time and you will do it. I do not know why, but so many gamers think of sailing ships as a glass ceiling that cannot be crossed. If you have painted A figure or two, you can do a ship.
No one is going to look at it up close. Just think what David said " If it looks good at arms length, it will look good on the table" They are not for a museum, just to play with :smack: :happy:
Be safe
Rory

Devsdoc
08-19-2013, 12:34
So! my shipmates,
This is the 2nd to last post for me. I Added glue all around the ships bottom and glued it to the base. I have added paint to the sails to cover the thread at the bottom of the course and jib sails.

6343

I made a gig for flag rigging. A piece of flat wood and two nails. It is long enough to do two flags

6344

I tied running rigging thread to the gig with a single loop knot at each nail.

6345

Cut out the flag, which I downloaded from this site. fold it in half and lay it through the thread.

6346

Use paper glue and stick it down.

6347

When dry undo the knots and take off the gig.

6348

I added a spot of super glue to the top spanker arm. Making sure the flag is in the right way (to the bow) and as high as you can. loop the thread around the arm about 2 times.

6349

Wait a minute or two. Add glue to the bottom arm of the spanker. Pull and loop around the arm two times.

6350

When dry, cut off extra thread. I then re-paint the yardarm ends over the rigging, and around the tops where the rigging shows and looks wrong. (the running rigging more so)

6351

The last bit is the remove the shiny bits left by the glue and not painted over. The thread around the bow and bow sprit, top and bottom of the rat-lines and around the joint of the hull and the base. Paint over these places with a Matt varnish.

6352

So the ship is done.

Be safe
Rory

Gunner
08-19-2013, 12:52
Agree with you 100% Gunner, I know if I attempted anything like this it would result in a big ball of thread glued to itself and lots of very very bad language...

Gaz, don't forget the part about having more glue on your fingers than you have on the ship.

7eat51
08-19-2013, 13:44
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

:hatsoff: :hatsoff: :hatsoff: :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

Absolutely fascinating, informative, and invaluable. Thank you Rory.

Rabbit
08-19-2013, 14:09
And to think I spent most of today looking at this and other sites seeing how to affix a flag

I had visions of drilling yet another hole in the model to stick a pin in.

I should be more patient!, Impatience is not a good start point for trying to emulate this work

thank you again

Rabbit

Devsdoc
08-19-2013, 14:59
Shipmates It is done. I hope this helps you as it is, or in part. I to have leant a lot. How to take better photos (Sorry for the bad ones) of my ships. I have also leant not to be so sensitive about my short comings (Sorry! and thanks Chris :salute:). For my old friend Vol, thanks for your Ideas and help. Eric, a good new friend, thanks. You are a bl##dy good crew to sail with. :drinks: over 2000 hits. O.K. half from me.
So we have gone from this.

6353

To this.

6354

6355

6356

She now sails off to join the rest of my Russian Fleet.

6357

Only one more frigate to paint and rig and the running rigging on the "Venera" to do. Oh! and a wreck
Be safe
Rory.

Nightmoss
08-19-2013, 15:52
Thanks Rory for the photos, tips and your time in explaining in great detail what goes into building these mins. :g&t::g&t::beer::rum::salute:

Gunner
08-19-2013, 17:10
Hi Rory,
Are you using the Selafail class ship to protect the fleet transporting Russian troops to Kronshtadt in 1814 or, off to fight the:cannonboom: Turks in1828?

Devsdoc
08-19-2013, 18:04
Hi Rory,
Are you using the Selafail class ship to protect the fleet transporting Russian troops to Kronshtadt in 1814 or, off to fight the:cannonboom: Turks in1828?

No Ed,
Off to warmer sea's, the Mediterranean and into battles at Dardanelles and Mount Athos 1807 And smack the Turks. I hope to see off the odd Swed on the way.
Be safe
Rory

Nightmoss
08-29-2013, 15:43
Rory, I have a running rigging question for you. The Langton book and you both mention the fact that British ships rigged the mizzen mast differently than the rest of the world. My question is how did the US rig the mizzen mast having formerly been a British colony? Did they maintain the British manner or did they go with the rest of the world? Thanks!

Devsdoc
08-29-2013, 16:47
Hi Jim,
I do not know. My head said as the rest, or Rod Langton would have said. My heart would like to think as the British. We must not forget that the French had a big say in the make-up of the U.S. military at this time. I would rig as the rest of the world. Who said the British way was the best.
Be safe
Rory

Devsdoc
08-30-2013, 15:14
Hi All,
If you have been with me from the start of this thread. You will know I started with one ship and finished with a second one. So to finish off this thread I have added the here the finished first ship.

6547

6548

6549

My wish is this thread will give you the push, to have a go yourself.
Be safe
Rory

Gunner
08-30-2013, 16:10
My wish is this thread will give you the push, to have a go yourself.
Be safe
Rory

As much as I enjoyed your post:hatsoff:, with a bunch of ships to repair and eight under way, I need brakes, not gas.

Nightmoss
08-30-2013, 16:40
The only thing better than ships, is more ships. More gas!! :wink:

Devsdoc
08-30-2013, 19:28
As much as I enjoyed your post:hatsoff:, with a bunch of ships to repair and eight under way, I need brakes, not gas.


The only thing better than ships, is more ships. More gas!! :wink:

BROOM! BROOM!

Nightmoss
08-30-2013, 19:52
BROOM! BROOM!

What he said ^

Pseudotheist
05-31-2014, 13:19
Oh my... The brass ratlines just arrived, so I hunted down this thread to see about rigging one of mine, and none of the pictures are loading for me. Have these images all been lost? That would be a great shame.

Nightmoss
05-31-2014, 13:34
Try accessing the resurrected information via The Miniatures Page. Actually Vol has restored and linked them on his blog. It's almost done, but still some of the running rigging to go.

http://volsminiatures.blogspot.com/2014/05/rory-mccreadies-step-by-step-guide-to.html
http://volsminiatures.blogspot.com/2014/05/rory-mccreadies-step-by-step-guide-to_18.html
http://volsminiatures.blogspot.com/

mdavis41
05-31-2014, 14:49
This article sounds very interesting. However, all I see of the images is a totally black box, I can only read the text. How do I see the images?

Devsdoc
05-31-2014, 16:45
This article sounds very interesting. However, all I see of the images is a totally black box, I can only read the text. How do I see the images?

Hi Michael and Todd,
Thanks for your interest in my thread. Alas all the photos were lost in the big hack. I have ask a number of times for it to be re done here. I have waited and had no reply so if you go to T.M.P. Napoleonic naval board, look for "Rory's Guide" it will take you to Vols blog of my Guide. or see Jim's post above yours.
Be safe
Rory

Ducky
05-31-2014, 18:58
I ordered a handdrill and some .3mm drillbits so I can start with the rigging mayhem next week.
Does somebody have the complete diagram from langton?
That would be a great help in combination with rory's guide :wink:

Nightmoss
05-31-2014, 21:52
I ordered a handdrill and some .3mm drillbits so I can start with the rigging mayhem next week.
Does somebody have the complete diagram from langton?
That would be a great help in combination with rory's guide :wink:

Thijs, Keith has a simple guide to masts and sails here, so along with Rory's guides you should be good to go. http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?202-New-to-the-Age-of-Sails-here-is-a-simple-guide-to-mast-and-sails

7eat51
06-01-2014, 23:32
I imagine we'll see Rory's Guide back up here sometime after Origins. I know Keith has been working on several projects and some problems with the AA store. With Origins in less than two weeks, I think all hands are on that deck.

Volunteer
06-18-2014, 15:28
I finally got around to posting the 2nd half of Rory's running rigging guide on the blogsite if anyone is interested.

Nightmoss
06-18-2014, 16:04
Thanks for the update Vol. I saw it on TMP too.

7eat51
06-18-2014, 16:18
Thank you, Vol. Rory created a very fine How To.