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View Full Version : Spanish 112 Gun--Langton Miniature--Ready for Rigging/Touch-Up



Nightmoss
06-14-2013, 13:55
I hope it's OK to start another thread on my second Langton 1/1200 miniature build? If not, feel free to move it to the other build thread on the Montanes I started a while back.

Just finished putting the masts into the 112 gun Spanish ship I purchased from Waterloo Minis as a squadron pack, so I thought a few pictures would help point out some areas the need paint and/or if the masts, etc. all look proper. It's amazing what the camera can show you that your eyes completely miss.

Here are a few. I'll post more when the ship is on the base and I have the standing rigging done.

Whitejamest
06-14-2013, 16:09
Really lovely work Jim, I look forward to seeing it with the rigging too. You're going to have a beautiful fleet in no time!

Devsdoc
06-14-2013, 16:32
Nice one Jim, I'm looking forward to seeing the ship rigged.
Be safe
Rory

Nightmoss
06-14-2013, 18:03
Thanks guys! Your work has provided a lot of the inspiration to continue building the fleet. When SoG finally ships, I'll be buried and instantly up to 3 nations. Can't wait! :happy:

Cmmdre
06-14-2013, 19:22
Admiral of the fleet. Great paint job Jim. :envy:

Naharaht
06-14-2013, 21:50
An excellent paint job, Jim.

Is 112 guns the largest number of cannons ever placed on a sailing ship?

David Manley
06-14-2013, 22:09
An excellent paint job, Jim.

Is 112 guns the largest number of cannons ever placed on a sailing ship?

Santissima Trinidad shipped 144

Gunner
06-14-2013, 22:15
Where do all you great painters come from??? Beautiful hull.:thumbsup:

Nightmoss
06-14-2013, 22:46
Santissima Trinidad shipped 144

And that's the next ship I'll be doing after this one! Woo Hoo!

calm
06-15-2013, 12:19
Nice paint job ! :thumbsup:

I think I don't hve the skills need to do such work :hatsoff:

Great work !!!

Comte de Brueys
06-15-2013, 13:03
Nice detail work, Jim.

7eat51
06-17-2013, 07:58
Beautiful work Jim.

What type of magnifying device do you use? My wife just started, and I will start, to paint minis, so I am collecting supplies.


And that's the next ship I'll be doing after this one! Woo Hoo!

I cannot wait to see your work on this one.

Devsdoc
06-17-2013, 08:52
I love your work Jim. Thanks for showing me up. :erk: I'm camera less for now, which makes me feel better. :salute:
Be safe
Rory

Nightmoss
06-17-2013, 09:04
Beautiful work Jim.

What type of magnifying device do you use? My wife just started, and I will start, to paint minis, so I am collecting supplies.



I cannot wait to see your work on this one.

Thanks Eric!

I'm extremely near sighted, so basically I take off my glasses and work with the model about 4 inches from my face. I put on safety glasses if I'm using anything that might be toxic, but for acrylic paints that's not so much an issue.

Nightmoss
06-17-2013, 09:06
I love your work Jim. Thanks for showing me up. :erk: I'm camera less for now, which makes me feel better. :salute:
Be safe
Rory

No! Don't you have friends/family with cameras? I want to see more Russian ships and large sea battles by your ports and forts! :salute:

7eat51
06-17-2013, 09:07
I am sorry to hear about the nearsightedness. Since I started teaching and working on computers throughout the day, my eyesight has suffered.

Jim, the fact that you do not use magnification increases the impressiveness of your work.

Nightmoss
06-17-2013, 09:12
I am sorry to hear about the nearsightedness. Since I started teaching and working on computers throughout the day, my eyesight has suffered.

Jim, the fact that you do not use magnification increases the impressiveness of your work.

It's really not a big deal. I've been wearing glasses since I was five. I can still wear contacts, although I'm at the top of the range of what they can make. The big deal is the cataracts that have started in both eyes. It comes with age, but my concern is when they do have to do the surgery it may impact my hobbies.

Devsdoc
06-17-2013, 09:53
It's really not a big deal. I've been wearing glasses since I was five. I can still wear contacts, although I'm at the top of the range of what they can make. The big deal is the cataracts that have started in both eyes. It comes with age, but my concern is when they do have to do the surgery it may impact my hobbies.

Jim,
I know of 100's of people who have had cataract surgery. Yes! 1 or 2 have had small problems. Most say they see better. Over 1/2 now see without glasses. You would be so unlucky to have a problem, and then it is mostly no change. Thinking of you.
Be safe
Rory

7eat51
06-17-2013, 10:02
my concern is when they do have to do the surgery it may impact my hobbies.

Jim, if you don't mind, please let us know when such a surgery is scheduled. You will have an entire community here wishing you well.

Nightmoss
06-17-2013, 13:07
Jim,
I know of 100's of people who have had cataract surgery. Yes! 1 or 2 have had small problems. Most say they see better. Over 1/2 now see without glasses. You would be so unlucky to have a problem, and then it is mostly no change. Thinking of you.
Be safe
Rory

Thanks Rory. My Mother has had this surgery and claims much better vision, as you say. The folks at the clinic personally want to have the surgery so they can dump their glasses. Pretty amazing what they can do! :happy:


Jim, if you don't mind, please let us know when such a surgery is scheduled. You will have an entire community here wishing you well.

As it turns out the eye doc continues to push back the surgery because he wants both eyes to be similarly affected so they can do each at close intervals. He's been doing this for about two years now. Who knows when he'll make the call, but I can let folks here know for sure. It has less impact on my painting and modeling, but more on playing games (they make the print too damn small on the cards and sheets for me to read without using old man reading glasses!) :hmmm:

7eat51
06-17-2013, 14:33
they make the print too damn small on the cards and sheets for me to read without using old man reading glasses

You are in very good company.

I just bought some WWII tactical games that have significantly larger counters and hexagons. Besides being quite beautiful, actually, they are much easier on the eyes.

Walram
06-17-2013, 21:35
Jim, I had cataract surgery in one eye a little over a year ago, and I can now get back into painting figures. I had collected 17 GHQ ships that I'm starting to paint now and I don't need to wear glasses. Don't know the odds but it was definitely worth it to me.

Nightmoss
06-18-2013, 08:39
Jim, I had cataract surgery in one eye a little over a year ago, and I can now get back into painting figures. I had collected 17 GHQ ships that I'm starting to paint now and I don't need to wear glasses. Don't know the odds but it was definitely worth it to me.

Hi David,
Thanks for the words of encouragement. It's good to hear of your positive results and when the doctor says it's time I'm sure I'll be ready.

Devsdoc
06-18-2013, 11:01
(they make the print too damn small on the cards and sheets for me to read without using old man reading glasses!) :hmmm:

Jim,
Your so called friends MAYBE printing the gaming cards and sheets smaller, saying "Its how they come in the game". TO STOP YOU WINNING. :embarass: :erk: :salute:
Be safe
Rory

Nightmoss
06-18-2013, 12:32
Jim,
Your so called friends MAYBE printing the gaming cards and sheets smaller, saying "Its how they come in the game". TO STOP YOU WINNING. :embarass: :erk: :salute:
Be safe
Rory

Oh, so it's a conspiracy!? They've found our weak spot and are capitalizing on it. :erk:

Andy Blozinski
06-19-2013, 20:51
Where do all you great painters come from???

Sometimes those guys in medical school party too hard and fail an exam. He coulda been a brain surgeon, but now he's painting sailing ship minis.

Nightmoss
06-19-2013, 21:01
Sometimes those guys in medical school party too hard and fail an exam. He coulda been a brain surgeon, but now he's painting sailing ship minis.

Mom always wanted a doctor in the family. Instead she's got a retired librarian who paints ships too small for most folks to see! :happy:

Nightmoss
06-20-2013, 14:24
Ok, I have the standing rigging just about done, along with the wave base and wooden base. Running rigging is next up and hopefully that wont take too long.

My dilemma now is what to name the ship? It was sent as a generic 112 gun Spanish ship. Langton Miniatures (via Waterloo Minis) sells a number of "named" ships, but this isn't one of them. So turning to the site I found previously I have picked out all the ships listed as 112 guns. I don't know if this list is comprehensive so if someone knows of other Spanish 112's please let me know.

http://www.todoababor.es/listado/index.htm

I'd like some input from the more knowledgeable community concerning which name might be the most realistic for the model I've got in hand? I was rather surprised to see the large number of SoL's the Spanish had at one time or another. I probably shouldn't have been, but it was very interesting to see.

Conde de Regla/Count of Regla
Príncipe de Asturias/Prince of Asturias
Purísima Concepción/Immaculate Conception
Reina Maria Luisa/Queen Maria Luisa
Real Carlos/King Carlos
Real Felipe/King Felipe (actually 108/110)
San Hermenegildo/San Hermenegildo
San Carlos/San Carlos
Mejicano/Mexican
Santa Ana/Santa Ana (one of the named Langton minis, which I just purchased)

Thanks!

calm
06-20-2013, 15:17
I think "Real" would be translated like "King" - Real Carlos to King Carlos or Charles.

Nightmoss
06-20-2013, 18:21
I think "Real" would be translated like "King" - Real Carlos to King Carlos or Charles.

Thanks Carlos. I've made the changes. One shouldn't rely so completely on Google translator, but that is, in fact, what I did.

calm
06-20-2013, 18:33
Thanks Carlos. I've made the changes. One shouldn't rely so completely on Google translator, but that is, in fact, what I did.

Don't mention it.

Volunteer
06-20-2013, 22:46
Jim,
Sorry I hadn't commented sooner, I haven't visited the site for a while. Your ship is gorgeous!. Simply perfect paint job. I am really looking forward to the rigged photos. I haven't done any Spanish ships yet. Would you mind if I used yours as inspiration and example of how to do it right?
Regards,
Vol

SeaRoyal20
06-21-2013, 06:48
@Nightmoss

Cataract surgery is quick and totally painless. I had both eyes done about 2 years ago. One eye is better, although still not too good even with glasses (massive astigmatism but think of the actual term). The other eye however is now crystal clear. It helps with the painting. Now if I could just figure out how to stop my hands from shaking!

Nightmoss
06-21-2013, 08:58
@Nightmoss

Cataract surgery is quick and totally painless. I had both eyes done about 2 years ago. One eye is better, although still not too good even with glasses (massive astigmatism but think of the actual term). The other eye however is now crystal clear. It helps with the painting. Now if I could just figure out how to stop my hands from shaking!

Thanks for the supportive information. I suspect the surgery will have to occur in the next year or so. Sorry, I have no recommendations for the shaking hands issue. There are some days when painting just isn't going to work for me, not so much shaking hands as overall agitation (read too much caffeine).

Nightmoss
06-21-2013, 09:06
Jim,
Sorry I hadn't commented sooner, I haven't visited the site for a while. Your ship is gorgeous!. Simply perfect paint job. I am really looking forward to the rigged photos. I haven't done any Spanish ships yet. Would you mind if I used yours as inspiration and example of how to do it right?
Regards,
Vol

Thanks Vol, for the really nice compliments. Running rigging is almost done, but it's not going as quickly as I'd hoped. As for the inspiration, you're welcome to use this ship as you like, with the acknowledgement that I've used your ships, (and Rory's, James' and all the other great member paints in older posts) for my inspiration. Don't look too closely, it really isn't perfect. Far from it. :wink:

Nightmoss
06-21-2013, 17:59
Ship is almost complete. Just the flag, pennant and some touch up work on the water to do. Right now the ship is being epoxied to the base so I'm leaving it alone for a few hours. More photos when it's "done".

Devsdoc
06-21-2013, 19:10
Do I call you friend,Jim or hate you for the rest of my life. :happy:
Be safe
Rory

Nightmoss
06-21-2013, 20:49
Do I call you friend,Jim or hate you for the rest of my life. :happy:
Be safe
Rory

No room for anything but friends! :happy:

csadn
06-21-2013, 21:52
I think "Real" would be translated like "King" - Real Carlos to King Carlos or Charles.

Indeed -- every Californian knows this. :)

"El Camino Real" -- "King's Highway": The main Spanish road along the length of California.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Camino_Real_%28California%29

7eat51
06-21-2013, 22:56
Another astounding ship. If I may ask, how long have you been at this? You are an inspiration.

Volunteer
06-22-2013, 00:05
The rigging turned out very nice. You must have gotten most of your inspiration from James and Rory. My ships are never this nice.

Berthier
06-22-2013, 05:18
Fantastic work, makes me even reluctant to try!:g&t:

Nightmoss
06-22-2013, 10:46
Except for some waterline detail and touch up on the rigging the ship is done. I decided to identify this one as the Príncipe de Asturias. That ship was at the Battle of Trafalgar, survived and went on for a number of years only to suffer a rather ignominious end (image included from website listed below).

Google translation from: http://www.todoababor.es/

In this battle of Trafalgar bore the insignia of Spanish squad leader, Lieutenant General Gravina, who was seriously injured in an elbow and whose wounds would die a year later in Cadiz. The Prince of Asturias had 50 dead and 110 injured. The Prince achieved the remains of ships gather survivors and after anchoring near Cadiz by temporary damming prdenó some vessels in sight. The Prince could not leave because of their status and entered Cadiz on October 27.

After the battle was subjected to heavy repairs from November 5. By putting the new masts were shortened sticks 3-4 feet, to improve stability. The March 4 was fully ready again. On April 9, hoisted her badge at the Lieutenant General Ignacio Maria de Alava, replacing the deceased Gravina. You are in command of the ships Prince, Terrible, San Justo, Highlander, San Leandro, San Fulgencio, Castile and the frigate Flora, all lacking food, clothing for crews, without money and spare parts.

During the Revolutionary War, in June 1808, served as Squad leader logo Ruiz de Apodaca, in the capture of the French ships that were in Cadiz: Heros, Neptune, Leon Blum, Argonaute, and the frigate cornelie Pluto.

At the request of the British government during the war against the French Regency decided that vessels could not be ready for combat will take place safer. So in September 1810 split the Santa Ana and the Prince of Asturias to Havana, arriving in November.

In the arsenal where he was born foundered for lack of buoyancy in 1814, and in 1817 he was ordered to desguaze sale. According to Salazar, in October 1834 were still sunk in the mud the Santa Ana and Prince. Sad end for two of the best ships of the Navy.

Comte de Brueys
06-22-2013, 13:28
Wonderful model, Jim.

Already gave you rep points for this beauty. :salute:

Devsdoc
06-22-2013, 15:52
No room for anything but friends! :happy:

Love your ships (both). And yes only friends. :salute:
Be safe
Rory

Nightmoss
06-25-2013, 09:28
I'm going to ask this question here so as not to start an unnecessary thread, and it concerns the relative accuracy of the 1/1200 ship models currently in production. I've searched the forums and found nothing beyond the comparison of SoG at 1/1000 to the existing 1/1200 models so I'm curious to hear back from folks like Vol, Rory, James, David, etc.

I decided to pick up a couple of the GHQ Micronauts to compare their models with the Langton ones I have. Specifically the Santissima Trinidad and the HMS Victory (still waiting on the Langton Victory to arrive). Casting on the GHQ models is very good (but the sails are pretty bad). Inclusion of the anchors and boats was an unexpected bonus. However, when you put the two models of the Trinidad side by side the Langton model is significantly longer and wider in the beam.

Does anyone know which of the two models is more accurate in regards to scale? Does the difference is size carry through on other ships models? They are both marketed as 1/1200 so it's primarily a curiosity thing on my part. Not a game breaker by any means. I wouldn't think this has anything to do with metric vs. imperial measurements, but maybe it does?

If anyone would like to see a photo comparison on the hulls I'd be happy to post a picture? Thanks!

Devsdoc
06-25-2013, 13:14
Jim,
Yes to the photo. Ask Vol or James. David once said when in doubt follow Rod Langton's plans
Be safe
Rory

Nightmoss
06-25-2013, 14:24
Here you go Rory. The Langton model has already been primed for painting so I hope that doesn't throw off the photos too much. I'll add a couple more observations. The weight of the Langton minis is much more substantial, which I definitely prefer for painting and handling. You'll also note that the stern detail on the two ships is considerably different. Pretty nice to see the lantern details on the GHQ model.

Whitejamest
06-25-2013, 18:54
Jim, beautiful work on the ship, it really looks fantastic. I like your basing too, the water color looks great, and I like the ship names.

As for GHQ vs. Langton, I think GHQ hulls have more detail and what they have is crisper (especially in the stern and bow ornamentation), and the proportions of the hulls are more accurate. I don't know which models are more perfectly in scale, like which Santissima Trinidad is exactly the right length for 1:1200, but the GHQ version is proportioned more like the actual ship. Don't get me wrong, I love Langton models too and especially use their detail sets all the time. The differences are relatively minor. We're talking about a millimeter here and there. They're both beautiful kits.

Hulls are only one issue of course. Then there's the issue of the sail sets and mast detail. Why GHQ's bowsprits are so simplified is a mystery to me........

Nightmoss
06-25-2013, 22:01
Jim, beautiful work on the ship, it really looks fantastic. I like your basing too, the water color looks great, and I like the ship names.

As for GHQ vs. Langton, I think GHQ hulls have more detail and what they have is crisper (especially in the stern and bow ornamentation), and the proportions of the hulls are more accurate. I don't know which models are more perfectly in scale, like which Santissima Trinidad is exactly the right length for 1:1200, but the GHQ version is proportioned more like the actual ship. Don't get me wrong, I love Langton models too and especially use their detail sets all the time. The differences are relatively minor. We're talking about a millimeter here and there. They're both beautiful kits.

Hulls are only one issue of course. Then there's the issue of the sail sets and mast detail. Why GHQ's bowsprits are so simplified is a mystery to me........

Thanks James, for the compliments and your feedback on the differences between the two manufacturers. I've looked at quite a few examples of Trinidad models (your GHQ build on TMP is pretty stellar btw), 3D CAD drawings and even a number of paintings and there does seem to be some debate on the actual stern appearance of the real ship if not other details of the hull. Found this wonderful sketch along with others for a study of the Battle at Trafalgar. http://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/turner-stern-of-the-santissima-trinidad-d05458

I like the GHQ model because of the detail as you mentioned, but also because I can model that at full sails if I want. Langton only offers the Trinidad in an 'at quarters' version, which means easy sails with courses furled to be a bit more realistic. I agree completely on the GHQ sails and I plan on using Langton sails on both the hulls. Again I noticed a difference in size between the GHQ and Langton sails. In this case the GHQ sails are larger than the Langton's?

It's probably overdoing it to have two Santissima Trinidad's, but I'm planning on completing both for the combined fleets. Cheers.

Volunteer
06-25-2013, 23:25
I noticed the difference in ships a while back on a different thread and asked Gunner about it. I think David was answering my question when he said to trust Rod Langton because he had access to the original construction plans. We were specifically talking about British ships at the time. I was asking about the Idefatigable Navwar and Davco models being so different. I also have the GHQ and Langton Montanes which are very different. James and I have talked about other differences between GHQ and Langton hulls. The Langtons sit higher in the water. The GHQ hulls are lower like a fully loaded vessel would be. In order to match them up, the only choices are to either lower the Langton hulls by filing them down or to build up the GHQ hulls by adding card or some other spacer material to the bottom. Both of us are doing the latter. The Davco hulls sit somewhere between the GHQ and Langto. The smaller Navwar hulls are even lower than GHQ, but the larger ships are massive and sit higher than Langton. So I guess all you can do is try to match a model the best you can to a set of plans or painting of a partcular historic ship, regardless of the name the manufacturer gives it.

Cpt Kangaroo
06-26-2013, 07:57
Jim, hats off to you and your work. The end result is spectacular. You obviously have the saying "GO BIG OR GO HOME!". Great ship choice too.

Nightmoss
06-26-2013, 13:43
I noticed the difference in ships a while back on a different thread and asked Gunner about it. I think David was answering my question when he said to trust Rod Langton because he had access to the original construction plans. We were specifically talking about British ships at the time. I was asking about the Idefatigable Navwar and Davco models being so different. I also have the GHQ and Langton Montanes which are very different. James and I have talked about other differences between GHQ and Langton hulls. The Langtons sit higher in the water. The GHQ hulls are lower like a fully loaded vessel would be. In order to match them up, the only choices are to either lower the Langton hulls by filing them down or to build up the GHQ hulls by adding card or some other spacer material to the bottom. Both of us are doing the latter. The Davco hulls sit somewhere between the GHQ and Langto. The smaller Navwar hulls are even lower than GHQ, but the larger ships are massive and sit higher than Langton. So I guess all you can do is try to match a model the best you can to a set of plans or painting of a partcular historic ship, regardless of the name the manufacturer gives it.

Vol,
Thanks for your insight and comments on some of the other mini producers. I've yet to see a Navwar hull in person. I can't imagine a ship more massive than the Langton Trinidad?! I might have to see what they offer just to compare. As for leveling the difference between the GHQ and Langton's Ii'll be using your same method. I have sheet styrene that should do the trick quite well.

Nightmoss
06-26-2013, 13:47
Jim, hats off to you and your work. The end result is spectacular. You obviously have the saying "GO BIG OR GO HOME!". Great ship choice too.

Thanks Erin. I chose the Spanish because they're not modeled as much as the Brits or French. It was only after some further reading and research that I discovered the Santissima Trinidad. It is a marvel.

Devsdoc
06-26-2013, 14:10
Jim,
Us Old-Salts forget that people new to the hobby don't know things we think old-hat, Sorry for that. But shipmates on this site will always help.
Be safe
Rory

Nightmoss
06-26-2013, 19:52
Jim,
Us Old-Salts forget that people new to the hobby don't know things we think old-hat, Sorry for that. But shipmates on this site will always help.
Be safe
Rory

I never hesitate to ask questions because I know someone here will have an answer or know of someone else who does. It's what's makes this place so enjoyable. And I expect it's only going to get better once SoG is being played by everyone here as well as the general public. Cheers!

Volunteer
06-26-2013, 22:09
Jim,
You won't like Navwar. The hull molds are poor in comparison with the other 3 brands and they take way too much work to build to an acceptable standard. Just not worth the money they want IMO. I got mine at a very reduced price from Gunner (thanks again Ed) so it was worth while. I like the challenge I guess.

Nightmoss
06-26-2013, 22:11
Jim,
You won't like Navwar. The hull molds are poor in comparison with the other 3 brands and they take way too much work to build to an acceptable standard. Just not worth the money they want IMO. I got mine at a very reduced price from Gunner (thanks again Ed) so it was worth while. I like the challenge I guess.

Thanks Vol. I'll concentrate on Langton and GHQ. That's plenty to keep me busy anyhow! :happy:

Gunner
06-26-2013, 22:43
Thanks Vol. I'll concentrate on Langton and GHQ. That's plenty to keep me busy anyhow! :happy:

Great choices. While GHQ models are very crisp and a tad smaller, I prefer Langton because of the wide variety of their models and hopefully they will look closer than most to the SoG scale.

Devsdoc
06-27-2013, 03:57
Hi Jim
I was given 9 Navwar SOL free from a friend. They are not so hot! But I will use them as merchant ships. For wargaming, merchant ship are just moving scenery. They will not look as good as my fighting ships, but will open new scenario for me on the table. I'm so lucky as it would have cost me around £100 to buy same ships with Langton merchant ships. All I need to do now is buy rat lines and bases. By the way I'm not putting down Merchant shipmen just looking at them from a wargaming point of view.
Be safe
Rory

calm
06-27-2013, 08:03
Poor merchantmen, just targets, sitting (or slowly moving) ducks :cry:

Gunner
06-27-2013, 10:25
Poor merchantmen, just targets, sitting (or slowly moving) ducks :cry:

Yes, but if enough of them get through they could bring extra revenue to build another ship.

calm
06-27-2013, 11:46
Yes, but if enough of them get through they could bring extra revenue to build another ship.

Indeed, I think of them as the unsung heroes :salute:

Devsdoc
06-27-2013, 12:05
You are all on my wave length :salute:
Be safe
Rory