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7eat51
04-09-2013, 17:09
Italicized portions will be deleted.

Rosters
Each player will create a roster of eight captains. During a game, players can choose, from their roster, those captains that are available. As captains gain experience through victories, they will gain skills. As they are injured, they might have to sit out one or more scenarios. Assign ranks to your captains as appropriate to the nation for which you sail.

We'll play two three-month mini campaigns this year to play test rule sets. In January, we'll kick off a year+ campaign that will be thematic and chronological. However, for those few who brave the waters during these two mini campaigns, whatever victories they, and their AI captains, have achieved will follow onto next year's campaign. In that sense, these mini campaigns can be thought of as backstory, albeit loosely. I will set up a spreadsheet to track successes, deaths, and injuries of our captains.

For the 2015 campaign, we'll probably focus on British vs. French given the ships that are available since that campaign will be thematic. For the scenarios between now and the end of the year, we can do anything we want, substituting ships for ships of other nations. Any scenario writer who wants to do so simply tells us what we need and gives us the stats - for example "2 Dutch SoLs with the following ship logs". Any captains from this year's scenarios can be carried over to next year's campaign, and if the captains are not British or French, then they can be assumed to sail under those colors next year, or have their names “legally” changed. I will create rosters for the AI captains, and they, too, will gain experience.

Captain-Crew Mixes
Captains are able to move from ship to ship.
Crews are assigned to a specific ship.

With our game, it could make sense to have some limits based on rank, for example a Lt. not commanding a 1st rate. I don't know how restrictive we should be given that this is for fun, and is not a tournament or competition.

I think the above scheme would be the easiest regarding record keeping, and it would allow some choices as to how players set up their side for a given scenario. It might to might not be historically accurate, but it probably will work for fun gameplay.

Skills
Captains accrue skill points according to the following schema. For every 10 skill points accrued, a captain gains a new skill.


1 point for every ship defeated (sunk/captured) that is of a broadly defined smaller class, for example a 74-gun SoL defeating a frigate, or a frigate defeating a sloop. The scenario author will define such classes.
2 points for every ship defeated of the same broadly defined class.
3 points for every ship defeated of a broadly defined larger class.
1 point for achieving a scenario specific goal - does not require the taking of a ship but the achievement of a strategic goal as defined by the scenario writer.

For the first solo campaign, choose two captains and assign each one a skill of your choice.

If a crew survives two scenarios with 50% or more of the crew intact, the crew earns a skill. It will maintain the earned skills until it receives more than 50% casualties. To earn a skill, the crew must have engaged in battle, i.e. the crew must have fired its guns at an enemy ship, and received fire from an enemy ship.

Skill List

Good Aim-When firing a broadside, and opponet draws one or more "0s", you may use this ability to make them draw an additional counter (may be used twice)
Well-trained gunners- Single broadside may be reloaded after it has fired (may be used once)
Elite Marines- When shooting muskets, if a "0" damage counter is drawn, you may force the opponent to draw an additional counter (may be used once)
Hold Fast- Ship has one free crew damage box left to take a crew hit in, the ship may take an additional three crew hits before surrendering
Skilled Quartermaster- May increase Veer by 1 for duration o the turn (may be used twice)


Folks, let's create a list of potential skills that folks can earn as they accrue victory points. I read through the captain/crew cards, but I think a more expansive list of captain/crew skills is desirable.

Awards
If you know of awards/medals captains of your respective navy earned during the time period covered, please list them here along with their requirements. These will not affect gameplay, but will give us something to toast upon recognition.

After Action Report (AAR)
After each player plays the given month's scenario, the player will write up an AAR and post it in the campaign thread. Again, I will set this up. You can write in any style you want. I will provide some guidelines as to the information I will need at the end of the AAR to do the record keeping.

Basic Rule Maneuver Principles:
Solo Maneuver Chart: http://sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=84
1. Choose the quadrant in which the majority of the appropriate ship is. If the ship is equally in two sectors, choose the quadrant containing the front of the ship.
2. If the wind direction falls exactly on a quadrant dividing line, randomly determine which quadrant via a die roll.
3. If a ship is taken aback, use the red card corresponding to the maneuver card generated by the AI chart.
4. When determining the +1 or +2 die roll modifier due to range to enemy ship, measure from the most advantageous firing arc red dot on the AI ship to the base of the player ship.
5. Sails are set to Battle Sails.
6. If a die roll would cause a ship to violate veer, choose sharpest turn within veer limits.

Basic Rule Combat Principles:
1. Only use Ball ammo.
2. When choosing between short and long distance shots for the AI ship, always choose short unless raking - B-damage is more deadly than A-damage - better to have less chits with greater chance of inflicting damage per chit.


Disengagement
When a ship is within the last three boxes of hull damage or crew hits, role a 6-sided die for disengagement: 1-4 = remain in battle; 5-6 = disengage. Roll each time a ship takes additional damage. Disengaging ships will attempt to exit their side as directly as possible, and will avoid combat, only taking shots of opportunity. The nature of disengaging can be altered based on scenario specific rules.

Modifiers to Disengagement Die Rolls

+1 if both hull damage and crew hits are within the last three boxes
+1 for each enemy ship that is not disengaging
-1 for each friendly ship that is not disengaging
Additional modifiers as per relevant captain/crew skills























Playing SGN solo might be a little tougher then doing so with Wings. The addition of the wind and how it effects your maneuvers is going to make creating a artificial intelligence system much harder. Don't forget that there are quite a few other things that effect just how your ship moves as well (sail settings, crew actions). There is also a lot more going on with shooting. There are three different types of ammo, three different firing arcs, reloading, waiting for a better shot, either rang or arc... the list goes on and on.

Seems like an AI system quickly would become rather complex. I hope we find it isn't beyond doing though. If it is, sadly, so be it.

If others are interested, when we have the full complement of rules, I wouldn't mind trying our hand at it. If we could develop such a system, it would greatly facilitate campaigns like Over-the-Trenches. If we can't, I for one, would learn a lot trying.

Here are some links to Aerodrome-based AI and campaign rules:
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?9174-Campaign-Rules
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?13711-Final-Months-Rule-Amendments
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/downloads.php?do=cat&id=13
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/downloads.php?do=cat&id=63

The Barrelman
04-09-2013, 17:59
I would not think an AI system is out of the question. The only additional item to consider is wind facing. I would limit the additional ammo rules out of an AI game. Unless it is a random d6/2 roll to load. It might be interesting to put all three together and then it is a single move per combo.

Examples:
Closing enemy, beating with chain shot is a fast straight to close.
Closing, beating with ball shot is a slow left to try and get a raking broadside.

It would need to cut something out, like the upcoming rules for the 3 sail settings.

Or if you want to use everything, another choice on the matrix for sail setting and random rolls for the AI to set new sails at intervals or distance to target?

7eat51
04-09-2013, 20:11
Ted, have you looked at the AI rules for WoG? If not, I will send you the links.

The maneuvers are set based on orientation to the player's plane and whether the player's plane is moving toward or away from the AI plane. A die is then rolled, and the three cards are played. Each maneuver deck has its now matrix. If the AI system gives moves that the player doesn't think makes sense, the player can adjust.

Besides movement, I think a similar system can be made for ammo based on a few questions. It is worth exploring.

The Barrelman
04-09-2013, 21:42
I have both Richard's and Blackronin's rules. I like the later rules for more simplicity. The difference with SGN is the movement is one card at a time compared to three for WGF. I think we could do something similar with a grid based on facing, wind and range to choose one card for the next movement phase. The layout would not be much different from the WGF stuff. We could randomize the card choice to 3 possible cards instead of 6 sets in WGF. And could randomize the ammo types based on the same positing system.

Beowulf03809
04-10-2013, 11:43
We should spin this AI talk off into it's own topic.

Please do! And start off with links to the current WGF AI options and, if possible, some input on pros and cons of each or what people do/don't like in each. Basic AI logic in games is an area of interest and study of mine though I've only implemented it at low levels myself. If there are too many variables for a paper-based system in SOG perhaps a very light weight web based or 'app' AI option could emerge.

The Barrelman
04-10-2013, 13:40
We have a dedicated thread thanks Keith! I'll try to find the links on Aerodrome for the WGF rules unless someone gets there first.

:salute:

7eat51
04-10-2013, 14:16
We have a dedicated thread thanks Keith! I'll try to find the links on Aerodrome for the WGF rules unless someone gets there first.

:salute:

Hey Ted,

I edited the OP with links. If you find any others, please send them to me and i will edit accordingly. This way we can keep outside rule links in one place for ease of finding them - especially as this thread grows.

The Barrelman
04-10-2013, 17:43
We could use the link to Richard's rules at http://www.tynesidewargames.co.uk/wowrules.html for a baseline.

Grimbeard
09-26-2013, 05:01
I really hope we can come up with solo rules for this game. The reason I got into WOG was the solo aspect, 80% of my games are solo due to time and work. I realize its going to be difficult but I've found there are some very clever people on this and and WOG site, I just wish I was one of them. :embarass:

The Royal Hajj
09-26-2013, 07:14
Luckily, there are some solo scenarios and rules in the basic starter set. I'm pretty sure some of the guys will expand on those pretty quickly.

The Barrelman
09-26-2013, 13:03
Yes. The included scenario is an excellent place to start for any house rules developed by the community.

Hobbes
09-26-2013, 13:34
I wasn't sure whether to open a new house rule thread or to append to this one.

After reading the rules and scenarios, I did like the rules for solo player at a first glance. However, as has been pointed out, I think it could be difficult to come up with some ai system that reacts to wind direction and opponent solution.I do like the solo scenario with the stationary ships, but I fear it might become somewhat repetetive as soon as one is familiar with the sailing conditions.

Therefore, I thought about having rules regarding springs on the anchor cables, allowing ships being veered round while being at anchor. I think especially solo player games would benefit from such rules as the wind is ruled out of any equation for the ai. Since this tactic has been used during that age (Battle of the Nile, Battle of Plattsburgh etc.) I could also think of some nice scenarios for more than one player.

I started an Internet search about the dynamics (degree of turn, speed) of using these springs, to come up with some mechanics for the game. But apart from learning, that the ship would turn around the stern if only one anchor was used, I couldn't find anything. I have some doubts about a 360° in one turn. I do not even know if such a degree of rotation was/is possible. The battle of Plattsburg suggests at least a turn of 180° being possible. Maybe (actually I'm pretty sure) we do have some members with more insights into this topic, who could help.

The Royal Hajj
09-26-2013, 14:28
On a single anchor, I think the ship would fall off to leeward with either the stern or bow pointing into the wind (depending on where it was anchored from). Perhaps making this change happen a turn or two after the wind changes directions would be a simple solution.

BSG_Fan
09-28-2013, 03:07
Having ships at anchor rotate (at least in the solitaire games) would be helpful I think. When I first read the rule book, I thought that the solitaire scenario where you're pursuing an enemy ship which moves at random was somewhat interesting, but the solitaire scenario of attacking ships at anchor only seemed useful as a training game. It seems like once you've played a few times and understand well how the ships moves, the logical thing to do is sail up to the enemy ships at anchor, drop anchor yourself off their stern, and rake them over and over (and they can't return fire against you). If the anchored ships could rotate, that would help a little.

bakblast
02-19-2014, 22:27
Why not play the game solitare the same way one plays chess solitare i.e play both sides with equal ferocity. I've done it with as many as 20 battalions a side in 15mm Napoleonics. Sometimes the results can be very surprising.

fredmiracle
02-19-2014, 22:45
I think it's the preplanned movement aspect that makes this one hard to simply switch back and forth between sides in your head and play them both well.

bakblast
02-19-2014, 22:47
If you have a short attention span like me it's not too har.....what were we talking about?

While having ADD can be usefull, as long as you are honest with yourself it can be done.

I've done it with Wings Of War.

7eat51
02-20-2014, 07:34
Why not play the game solitare the same way one plays chess solitare

I play most wargames solitaire. Even if some measure of bias creeps in, I still enjoy playing. I'll do the same with SoG.

The nice thing about the WoG solitaire rules is the unexpected. It might be easier to develop an AI mechanism for SoG based on single card maneuvering while maintaining either single or one-card delay maneuvers for the player. I imagine a priority matrix could be developed to handle crew actions, and a similar matrix for combat, e.g. "If enemy ship …, load with … ammo", or something similar to that.

longagoigo
02-20-2014, 07:58
I think it's the preplanned movement aspect that makes this one hard to simply switch back and forth between sides in your head and play them both well.
Great minds think alike, so when playing both sides you should have some intuition as to how you're playing both sides, but short turn memory issues and preplanning work well together to give some uncertainty as to what you're doing as your opponent. So far, I've had fun playing multiple ships against myself.

StormforceX
03-19-2014, 14:28
Been playing about with solo rules, ripped off from Herkybirds Wings of Glory, and come up with a hand written first draft. The key seems to be to not target the nearest ship, but an imaginary spot (I call it the target spot) about 1" out from the edge of the nearest ships base. This is so that the AI vessel manouvers alongside, or rakes, the player ship and does not sail straight for it as a plane would.
Only works with basic rules so far but could be a starting point for further development.9423
If you can make a template and you have played the Wings of Glory Solo it should make sense to you, and if you can read my writing.

7eat51
03-20-2014, 13:49
Hi Patrick,

Thanks for the chart. I copied it into a .pdf. With your permission, I would like to upload it as a file so people can easily print it off. We can play test it and give you feedback. I will try it this weekend.

StormforceX
03-20-2014, 15:16
Hi Eric,
Yes, please do, I hoped people would take it up and improve it to something worth playing. I have played 4 games now with 1 v 1 and 2 v 2 ships (I only have the starter set yet) and either it works or I am the worst Captain that ever set sail, as I have lost 3 times.
Looking forward to other players reports and amazed that you could read my scribble.

StormforceX
03-22-2014, 08:16
After test game 5 I have further ammended the "Target Spot" rules to avoid a lot of collisions.
If the nearest enemy is more than 1 ruler distant, then only aim for the beam target spots.
If the nearest enemy is less than 1 ruler away, then aim for either the beam or stern target spot.

Also the moves when in the red sector have to be looked at as I can see that at times the AI ship will just be blown backwards across the board for move after move.

7eat51
03-23-2014, 00:09
Patrick's solo rule template has been uploaded: http://sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=76

Thanks, Patrick. Looking forward to trying these out.

7eat51
05-26-2014, 07:56
If you are interested in helping design a set of solo rules for SoG, please join this discussion.

Some of the items that need to be developed are:

1. Maneuver charts
2. Ammo selection
3. Crew action selection
4. Captain and crew progression with associated benefits
5. ???

I will reserve several posts here, one for each item. As we discuss such rules, I will update these following posts accordingly, so the latest thinking of each area is gathered and summarized in an easy to find format. I will also add notes to the OP to help in locating important info in this thread.

Ducky
05-26-2014, 09:14
If you are interested in helping design a set of solo rules for SoG, please join this discussion.

Some of the items that need to be developed are:

1. Maneuver charts
2. Ammo selection
3. Crew action selection
4. Captain and crew progression with associated benefits
5. ???

I will reserve several posts here, one for each item. As we discuss such rules, I will update these following posts accordingly, so the latest thinking of each area is gathered and summarized in an easy to find format. I will also add notes to the OP to help in locating important info in this thread.

Count me in, ive made my sector template and planned to playtest the Rules in the end of the week.
It wont be as easy as with wings of glory but in my opinion it can be done to make a usefull ruleset for solo play...

Will post my comment and/or suggestions here

Cheers,

Thijs

7eat51
05-26-2014, 09:34
Great, Thijs. Along the lines of, or interacting with, Patrick's chart above, I think it would be beneficial to start with an AI mechanism that focuses on a basic set of rules, such as only using round shot, etc. Once that set is developed and play tested, and settled, then we could look at a mechanism for adding ammo choice, etc., with each iteration adding new levels of complexity. In the end, there could be three sets of rules: basic, standard, and advanced. Thoughts?

Ducky
05-26-2014, 14:28
I agree smarting with the basics!

What I dont understand what is the reference point to determine the sector...
Should we take the main mast of the players ship to see in which sector it is?

Maybe the continous fire is also a good fire mode for basic solo play of the AI ship?

7eat51
05-26-2014, 22:55
Play testing will help determine if the main mast is the best point of reference, but it seems a logical choice. Let's start with it and see what happens.

Die charts could be set up based on ships' bearing, and possibly some consideration of distance (at least with standard and advanced rules), e.g. within two rulers or some such thing. Unlike WGF in which speed is basically set, SGN allows for different sail settings resulting in different arrow lengths, hence the distance consideration.

fredmiracle
05-27-2014, 14:17
I'm interested. I will print out Patrick's templates and give them a try.

Honestly with only about 10 games played, the challenge I see for myself is that I'm not entirely sure what optimal strategy looks like.

In the games I've played, perhaps half have hinged on disastrous mistakes, like running aground or miscalculating and being taken aback when I thought I would still be safely in the yellow. It seems pretty challenging to figure out how to factor something like terrain into solitaire rules, when even as a supposedly intelligent player I can't seem to hit the gaps consistently.

When not making bone-headed moves, however, I've found it hard to figure out whether my tactics are good or not. I've enjoyed the battles and found them tense and engaging; but it's hard to pinpoint particular decisions and say that they were brilliant or stupid or decisive. Instead the engagements seem to be more about the overall flow and cumulative weight of many decisions and moments of good or bad luck. I find the historical feel of this very good, but so far it's been hard for me to draw discrete tactical lessons

Nor do I feel like I have a strong handle on the historical tactics (from the perspective both of learning from history, and developing rules that favor historically accurate behaviors...)

All that said, I'm definitely interested in furthering this project (in part because it would be fun to run some collaborative missions together with the kids)

Ducky
05-27-2014, 14:24
Just played a solo "basic" game with roundshot on the AI ship.
It seems the movement chart is doing its thing.

Could only win with a very small difference.
The english frigate sunk, while the dutch one was turned into a dutch Gouda cheese with enormous holes in it :shock:

The AI ship reacted good to my ship!

7eat51
05-28-2014, 06:57
Ithe challenge I see for myself is that I'm not entirely sure what optimal strategy looks like.

It seems to me that for the AI maneuver options, we would want a range of reasonable maneuvers, not necessarily optimal in the sense of no chance for a mistake to occur, as mistakes do occur. I have seen this in WoG. Sometimes the AI planes make turns, etc., that are completely unexpected, but those maneuvers usually create interesting scenarios and force different responses on my part. It is part of the fun of the game - the potential unexpected.

With land masses, there could be a general rule that if you are approaching a land mass, say within a ruler's length or some such measurement, your roll selections are limited to turns based on wind direction. This could still lead to running aground, but doing so without the apparent foolishness of having straight maneuvers as options when so close to land. Again, there is a difference between reasonable and optimal.

One thing to consider is that if the system becomes unwieldy or too complex, it might not be employed. One of the strengths of the WoG solo mechanism we are using in the solo campaigns is ease and quickness of use.

Ducky
05-28-2014, 14:05
With land masses, there could be a general rule that if you are approaching a land mass, say within a ruler's length or some such measurement, your roll selections are limited to turns based on wind direction. This could still lead to running aground, but doing so without the apparent foolishness of having straight maneuvers as options when so close to land. Again, there is a difference between reasonable and optimal.

One thing to consider is that if the system becomes unwieldy or too complex, it might not be employed. One of the strengths of the WoG solo mechanism we are using in the solo campaigns is ease and quickness of use.

Easy to use must be the key! I agree on that
But since the Rules of SoG have more dept than wings it should be more than movement rules; would be nice If we could implement the different sails, ammo and the special damage :drinks:

fredmiracle
05-28-2014, 14:20
They do have some guidelines in the rulebook (IIRC) for which actions solo ships should take based on the situation. Though perhaps these could be improved

Ammo is a tough call. Thus far I usually have just been using regular ball. When it works out it's really sweet to have double-shot loaded at the right moment, but usually I mis-estimate when I will be in range and end up missing out on shots I could have taken if I had regular ammo loaded...

fredmiracle
05-28-2014, 15:41
One thing to consider is that if the system becomes unwieldy or too complex, it might not be employed. One of the strengths of the WoG solo mechanism we are using in the solo campaigns is ease and quickness of use.

Point well taken.

One thing that might be worth considering, however, even if it complicates the mechanism somewhat, would be to make the maneuver tables more cognizant of the wind. At least I know I do that (or try to do that) when I'm maneuvering. The proposed template factors in whether the ship is currently in the red, but is otherwise indifferent to how a maneuver is going to change a ship's bearing to the wind or possession of the weather-gauge...

Diamondback
05-28-2014, 15:43
For an "AI", I would first suggest looking into each navy's standard procedures and doctrines as an opening step. For example, the French would prefer to stand back and throw things at you from distance (an AI encouraging keeping a distance and maximum-range shots), while RN tactics were basically to take the bar-stool out from under you and break it over your head (an AI that would "steer straight into their line", close to You Can't Miss distance and keep each individual gun firing as fast as possible).

Spanish, Russian, various Italian... all open questions, and frequently problematic to find data on outside of their originating communities.

fredmiracle
05-28-2014, 15:48
For an "AI", I would first suggest looking into each navy's standard procedures and doctrines as an opening step. For example, the French would prefer to stand back and throw things at you from distance (an AI encouraging keeping a distance and maximum-range shots), while RN tactics were basically to take the bar-stool out from under you and break it over your head (an AI that would "steer straight into their line", close to You Can't Miss distance and keep each individual gun firing as fast as possible).

Spanish, Russian, various Italian... all open questions, and frequently problematic to find data on outside of their originating communities.

I agree. Without getting overly rigorous or detail-oriented about it, it seems possible to develop two different AI 'personas', mapping roughly to these stereotypically/doctrinally British and French approaches. And then maybe more personas would emerge later...

Nightmoss
05-28-2014, 17:36
I agree. Without getting overly rigorous or detail-oriented about it, it seems possible to develop two different AI 'personas', mapping roughly to these stereotypically/doctrinally British and French approaches. And then maybe more personas would emerge later...

Don't forget the pirates?! Actually I'm just joking, and while most of Ares effort is on the British and French, some of us are still hopeful for the Spanish making an appearance relatively soon? OK, back to lurking mode on this thread. :wink:

7eat51
05-28-2014, 17:46
I suggest keeping different levels of complexity as different sets of rules with attendant charts. Once one starts looking at different simultaneous choices, the maneuvers, etc., are impacted. As to DB's point, if we can create generalized lists of SOP for different navies, then we can create maneuver and other action charts aligned with those lists. One thing I think we need to keep in mind is that these solo rules will never mirror what can be done in a computer game, for example. In WoG, many, if not most, of the players do not use altitude, and when they do, they have created very easy rules; the games are still a lot of fun to play. Personally, I am not interested in trying to create a simulation, but rule sets that have just enough to allow us to play together, etc. The rest can be left to house rules. If a given set of house rules becomes widely adopted, we can roll those into the "official" rules.

I will be starting a thread for a basic game campaign, shortly.

Ducky
05-28-2014, 18:24
Just played another solo game and didnt use the charts red movement suggestions but let them depend on a dice roll,
The outcome of the dice roll suggests a normal movement with a steer rate, then use the red card matching that steer rate.

Seemed to work better than just one red movement suggestion...

Will test this again :wink:

Also used the first broadside rule this time. Which was a good addition!

Outcome was again a slight win for me but could have gone either way...
The AI ship surrendered due to loss of crew.

Using the main mast to determine the sector seemed to work well both times...

Will have another go right now!

Ducky
05-28-2014, 19:41
Just played another one. The thing I mentioned in the post before with the red movement works great.
In this way the red movement also reacts on the presence of the enemy.

My conclusion so far is the AI ship could react somewhat more agressive in its movement when within a half ruler distance....
So my suggestion is to add a +2 on the dice roll when within half a rule so it will turn more agressive?

Having really a good time playing the solo Rules so far and a game between 2 frigates is about half an hour :drinks:

Darn wrong thread:shock::surrender:

Ducky
05-28-2014, 20:29
Just played another one. The thing I mentioned in the post before with the red movement works great.
In this way the red movement also reacts on the presence of the enemy.

My conclusion so far is the AI ship could react somewhat more agressive in its movement when within a half ruler distance....
So my suggestion is to add a +2 on the dice roll when within half a rule so it will turn more agressive?

Having really a good time playing the solo Rules so far and a game between 2 frigates is about half an hour

7eat51
05-28-2014, 22:10
Just played another one. The thing I mentioned in the post before with the red movement works great.
In this way the red movement also reacts on the presence of the enemy.

My conclusion so far is the AI ship could react somewhat more agressive in its movement when within a half ruler distance....
So my suggestion is to add a +2 on the dice roll when within half a rule so it will turn more agressive?

Having really a good time playing the solo Rules so far and a game between 2 frigates is about half an hour

Thijs, please elaborate on how you are playing red movement issues.

I need to play a couple of games with your +2 idea, but that is the sort of easy adjustment we should aim for, and should guide how the maneuver charts are designed.

It is good to hear you are enjoying these games. I cannot express enough how much fun and learning took place when playing the Final Months campaign on the Aerodrome. Reading my fellow wingmen's AARs was like reading short stories. It was fun writing them as well.

7eat51
05-28-2014, 22:14
All that said, I'm definitely interested in furthering this project (in part because it would be fun to run some collaborative missions together with the kids)

I missed this comment earlier, but I wholeheartedly agree. I want to take Sue through the Final Months campaign, and now as we enter the world of WWII WoG, the BoB/Malta campaign. We can fly together, or fly the same mission separately sharing our own stories, etc. Similarly, these are great ways to teach the game to others because you are on the same side. When you win or lose together, you can have fun discussing the game together afterwards.

Ducky
05-29-2014, 04:33
About the red movement in the charts;

For example:

When the player's ship is in sector 1,1,11,12 of the AI ship. And the AI ship is running against the wind it needs to play a number 5 red card. That means the ship goes straight backwards. Likely the next turn the player's ship will still be in sector 1,2,11,12. And because the AI ship didnt turn it is still running against the wind.

This can be so for several game turns....

I now throw a dice, look in the chart what the normal green movement would be. For example in sector 1 the dice number thrown is 3 , the green movement would be card 6, I then take the 6+ red movement.

So the AI ship is taken back but it also turns and less likely to be taken back another turn.

Hope this clarifies it a bit?

7eat51
05-30-2014, 08:55
Got it, Thijs.

One possibility is to have three basic charts, one for each attitude to the wind, and with 12 rows and 6 columns - rows reflecting ship positioning relative to the AI ship, and the columns representing die rolls. A player would simply choose the chart associated with wind attitude. I think some such mechanism would be non-cumbersome in that a player does not have to deviate in how (s)he executes AI ship movement; (s)he chooses the proper chart and executes the same steps. Of course, we're looking at three charts for each maneuver deck.

Another consideration for the basic rule set is whether there is any planned movement. With the WoG mechanism, the charts provide the three maneuvers just like the regular game. Given that the greater complexity of SoG (based on the number of decisions a player can make each turn regarding sail setting, ammo, etc.) will eventually lead to a couple of rule sets based on desired complexity, I think it would be fine for the basic set to utilize one card movement. Thoughts?

Ducky
05-30-2014, 09:58
That could be an option but I think one basic chart for all the manuever decks will do? I havent checked yet if the chart we use now misses some cards from the maneuver decks?

I dont know if 3 charts for each wind attitude is needed.

I looked at the solo Rules from the rulebook and I think the Rules they have for different actions and the priority of actions is ok to use for standard and advanced solo play.

I dont know how we can implement the different sail settings? My only thougt on this is that they depent on the distance from the AI ship to the nearest enemy?

For instance:
within half ruler distance would be backing sails;
Half ruler to full ruler would be battle sails;
More than a ruler would be full sails.

The action to change sails would come last in the action chart so is only done when the other actions are not needed and there is a action box left for changing sail setting????

Ducky
05-30-2014, 10:02
But indeed a chart with 12 sectors and 6 movement actions for each sector could be a thing to research.
But maybe there is a chance that the sectors look a like when you put to many cards in each sector?

Ducky
05-30-2014, 10:04
I will look at the chart this weekend If some altering is needed;
And will try to make a first attempt for a standard solo ruleset.
:drinks:

7eat51
05-31-2014, 08:29
Given the devastating effects I have seen when frigates and SoLs fight, I think we should have a rule that an AI ship of 2 or more classes lower will not engage the higher-classed ship unless accompanied by another, sufficiently classed, ship (or some such comparison). If a lower-classed ship is caught in such a duel, or is the only remaining ship when larger-classed ships remain, it will flee. We have similar break-off rules in the WoG solo rules, and they work quite well. Of course, the rules of any given scenario can override such rules for the purpose of that given scenario.

Ducky
05-31-2014, 09:59
True,

Just played with a frigate and ship of the line vs an AI frigate and sol...

I got my sol with its first broadsite in half ruler range of the AI frigate that still was near its sol,
The outcome was that the frigate only needed one more damage point to the hull :shock:... My sol got return fire from first broadsite of the AI frigate and AI sol and lost half its hull and crew....

The next couple of turns the AI frigate had to sierende rand my Sol surrendered to the AI sol due to crew loss after being in musket range of each other...

My frigate undamaged took on the AI sol that by now had a half damaged hull and some crew losses....

Few turns later my frigate came victorieus out of the fight after the enemy sol lost more than 90% of its hull but surrendered due to crew loss.

My frigate lost more than half of its hull by the time and had some crew losses...

I very tense battle of which the outcome could have gone either way!

Ducky
05-31-2014, 10:03
We need to make separate movement charts for the different classes though,
Because on the chart we now have there are movements a sol cant make!!!

So I think each class sloop,frigate,sol needs an own movement chart to get the most out of its abilities!!

We have to work that out, the chart we have now is good for frigates but not for the sol's

7eat51
05-31-2014, 10:13
Yes - each maneuver deck has its own chart. I think play testing and the campaign will help us decide how wind attitude should be handled.

Nice summary of your battle. We need some type of simple rule to determine when to engage and when to break off based on damage and ship class. With the WoG, once a plane takes a certain amount of damage, you roll to see if it stays in the fray. Again, these types of rules can be overwritten in a given scenario in which a ship might sacrifice itself for a strategic goal in the background.

Ducky
05-31-2014, 10:30
I agree, but in the situation above my sol was sandwiched between the AI frigate an AI sol.

All three ships undamaged and all three still had to fire their first broadsides...

So my sol was in a huge disadvantage.. I waited a turn with firing my broadside so I could do max damage and figured it would be best to get rid of the enemy frigate first.

The outcome surprised me but when my frigate arrived at the fray it was too late for my sol surrendered the turn before...

My opinion so far on the basics of the solo rules is that they are quite good,
Just needs some tweaking! And different charts for the ship classes.

But how the AI ships engage so far does not dissapoint me because I would make those movements myself in most situations :wink:

Ducky
05-31-2014, 10:35
So first thing I will do now is to figure out different movement charts for the different classes.
How the ships react on wind attitude is fine I think taking in account how I handle the taking aback movement (red)

Next thing will be to incoperate all the optional rules

7eat51
05-31-2014, 10:40
One thing a player should always feel free to do is to override the AI mechanism and make a decision based on the board and the goals of the scenario. This is where we have to remember we're creating a non-cumbersome set of rules in which we have rules of thumb more than a detailed simulation able to handle complexity. SoG is more complex than WoG given the various decisions one can make in a given turn. I think we'll find that rules of thumb that create some measure of surprise or randomness for us will go a long way to enabling us to play very enjoyable solo games.

Next week, I will have some time to work on maneuver charts and other rules. We can post our ideas here for feedback. Once we have settled on some, I will format them and post them in the reserved posts and as files for download.

If some of you are willing, I would like to send you the scenarios I have for Origins, and solicit your feedback. If you see any areas of concern, I have time to address them before running them. If you are open to offering such help, please PM me with an email address to which I can send attachments. I can have these off to you early next week.

Ducky
05-31-2014, 18:47
This is my view on the movement chart...
Like to hear your opinions and suggestions.

Maybe there should be some very random directions added?

10081

I will play test it tomorrow :wink:

fredmiracle
05-31-2014, 18:56
I've been trying out an alternate approach. I've only played a couple of games so far, so it's not ready for primetime, although it seems to be working ok. But since things seems to be moving quickly on this thread, I thought I'd upload it to spur some debate and discussion. I don't think I can say yet whether it is worth the added complexity--it definitely needs some tweaking.

The idea is to have less zones (4 instead of 12), but to factor in the AI ship facing, the enemy ship facing, and the wind.

Each of these three facings is given a code: A is to the front, B is to port, C is aft and D is to starboard.

Thus for a given situation you get a three letter code. The first is the direction of the player ship from the AI ship. The second is the reverse--the direction of the AI ship from the player ship. The third is the direction of the wind relative to the AI ship.

So for instance, if you have two ships heading more or less directly toward each other, with the wind over the starboard of the AI ship (and therefore port of the player ship) the code would be: A A D -- this means player ship ahead of AI ship, AI ship ahead of player ship, wind over starboard of AI ship.

Then just find the three letter code in the chart, roll the die, and find the AI maneuver.

Here's the chart:
10082

This probably sounds more complicated than it really is. After a few run throughs it is quick to come up with the 3 letter code. I just have to figure out how to describe it better (probably with a couple of diagrams).

Again, hopefully some food for thought.

Ducky
05-31-2014, 19:06
Will give it a go tomorrow Fred, I understand what you mean and it sounds good :wink:
But im not sure the wind direction is that relevant?

I will try your table and let you know how it worked out!

Ducky
05-31-2014, 20:28
I studied your chart and I am wondering why there isnt a 0 or 10 movement in it?

Will also give it a go without the wind direction to see If that also works.... That would make the list a lot shorter?

But lookes like a solid idea you got!

Ducky
05-31-2014, 21:25
Wouldn't be easier to determine all the directions from the AI ship?
So in your example mentioned before AAD it would be ACD?
A direction of enemy, C enemy facing, D wind direction....

So you dont have to look for directions in both ships???

Ducky
06-01-2014, 05:57
What influence does the wind direction have on the choices of movement in your chart?

Id like to know "your thinking" when designing the chart,
Then its easier to judge the choices in the chart...

Ducky
06-01-2014, 08:29
Played twice with your chart Fred:

The system with the letters is quite easy and works,
But the movement is off and isnt quite right yet, it needs altering I think.

I wondering If we can come up with the same system but without the wind direction.
The moves in a code need to be sharper as dice number increases, in that way you can Add for example +1 or +2 to your diceroll so the moves will be sharper when the enemy ship is in closer proximity.

Could you email me the word or exel file of your chart so I can tweak a bit with the movement?

Cheers,

Thijs

fredmiracle
06-01-2014, 14:06
I studied your chart and I am wondering why there isnt a 0 or 10 movement in it?

been playing with SOLs too much lately and forgot frigates went as far as 0 and 10 :happy:


What influence does the wind direction have on the choices of movement in your chart?

well, I just kind of mapped out each situation on the board and tried to come up with what seemed like good moves. In general, if facing into the wind, I would usually want some turn, rather than playing a 5 and potentially just drifting backwards. More often then not I would try to avoid tacking, and would generally prefer to move the wind to the aft side to be in the green zone. If the opponent was moving with the wind I would assume they would move faster than if they were coming up into it. But I also included exceptions so it wasn't too predictable.


Wouldn't be easier to determine all the directions from the AI ship?
So in your example mentioned before AAD it would be ACD?
A direction of enemy, C enemy facing, D wind direction....

So you dont have to look for directions in both ships???

yeah, but you have to consider the perspective of the player ship, because it will (presumably) do different things if it is facing toward you than away from you, etc.


Played twice with your chart Fred:

The system with the letters is quite easy and works,


thanks for giving it a try!



But the movement is off and isnt quite right yet, it needs altering I think.


Yes, I think you are right, it seems a little off. It may be my charts just aren't right yet. Of it may be that it's a plausible idea that just doesn't work out well in practice. Perhaps 4 directions is not granular enough.

Your "move sharper when closer" idea seems like it will improve things significantly.

But another thing I've been playing around with is changing the 4 quadrants, so instead of ahead/port/aft/starboard, it becomes ahead-port/ahead-starboard/aft-port/aft-starboard. That also might give better results



I wondering If we can come up with the same system but without the wind direction.


It seems like wind direction should matter, although maybe my charts aren't handling it properly. I think about wind when plotting my moves. But maybe I'm overestimating its importance. Certainly nothing is stopping a ship from just tacking through the wind and going on...


The moves in a code need to be sharper as dice number increases, in that way you can Add for example +1 or +2 to your diceroll so the moves will be sharper when the enemy ship is in closer proximity.


that makes a lot of sense and is easy to change


Could you email me the word or exel file of your chart so I can tweak a bit with the movement?


I'll post the XL file later today

Ducky
06-01-2014, 14:31
That where a lot of questions :happy:

But I think its better indeed to turn the sectors 45 degrees!

About the wind I dont look to much at the wind as im planning cause I want to go to a ship and generally it doesnt matter that is in green or orange movement. And when taken aback I want to turn to keep facing the enemy

About enemy facing in the code I didnt mean to leave it out but to see all things from the AI ship.
So If the AI ship is near an enemy that is facing the AI from starboard it would be the letter D instead of an A
Hope i describe it good enough...

Thanx for the excel so I can tinker with the movements

Still think your chart is an good idea!

fredmiracle
06-01-2014, 16:28
Here's the current XL. I'm still working on the 45 degree rotation variant

10083

Ducky
06-01-2014, 17:13
Thanx,

Im working on a 45 degree rotated variant aswell,
Exluding wind to keep it simple.... Next thing would be to see If it is needed to put wind factor in also...

Keep in mind to put the rugby turn with each code under the highest dicerolls,
In that way you can Add a +1 within a ruler and a+2 within half a ruler to the diceroll to make turns in a tight space.

Lets see if we come both with the same movements in given situations :wink:

Nightmoss
06-01-2014, 17:55
Thanks for all the work you're putting into the solo rules discussion. I'm enjoying the dialog and feedback, wondering how it will all turn out? :happy:

Ducky
06-01-2014, 18:09
Would you like to make some test runs aswell?
All the feedback and opinions are welcome :wink:

But I think we are on the right path now....

Whats your opinion about wind direction and movement Jim?

Ducky
06-01-2014, 18:45
What ive figured out so far but still needs tested and some tweaking maybe....
10084

Nightmoss
06-01-2014, 20:58
Would you like to make some test runs aswell?
All the feedback and opinions are welcome :wink:

But I think we are on the right path now....

Whats your opinion about wind direction and movement Jim?

I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough in the game mechanics yet to be offering input, but I should start testing if I'm up for a scenario. You are using a basic set of solo rules, correct?

7eat51
06-01-2014, 23:27
Fred and Thijs, I will work through these additions over the next day or two. It is exciting seeing this materialize. Thanks for your efforts.

fredmiracle
06-03-2014, 15:57
ok, here's another stab at the three letter system. I haven't cross-referenced with yours yet Thijs, I figured maybe it would be good to have a second perspective on it for the initial draft.

It has the 45 degree rotation and the turns listed from straightest to most curved.

After a whopping one playthrough I was pleased with it :happy: we'll see how well it wears after a few more go-arounds...

10090
10089

fredmiracle
06-03-2014, 16:04
I've only played with frigates yet. I am curious how it will go with SOLs. I can agree that a different chart may be needed, since you can't count on a nice sharp
90 degree turn to nip in front or behind the enemy. This is especially true of the first-rates--their most aggressive turns are 7s and 3s, which are pretty anemic as turns go.

SOLs fastest turn may actually be when tacking, but the first-rates, in particular, pretty much cannot help getting the second hourglass (granted, that's officially a standard rule...)

So far it isn't clear to me how possible it is to create a "French persona" chart that tries to maintain a longer distance and concede the weather gauge...

Ducky
06-03-2014, 16:30
Hi Fred,
Im figuring out the persona charts aswell;
Great that you figured out a new chart aswell.
My experience with the turning of the sector by 45 degrees is good so far.
With these "new" sectors its easier to let the AI react in a natural way to its suroundings.

But I havent played enough with my chart to get a good opinion on the movements it suggests.

Dont get me wrong, I dont say the wind factor should be left out but im working towards an easy chart that gives the AI ship logical and natural movement.

When accounting windfactor there are more options in a chart so maybe a better change to come such a logical and natural movement.

Do you take in account the distance with a +1 or so to Add to the diceroll aswell?

I was thinking for some scenario's the same table could be used for a more evading the enemy movement by subtracting a -1 or so from the diceroll to let the ship keep some distance.

About the persona;
I think that the solution to such charts isnt in movements but the use of optional rules and the crew and captain ability decks.

For example the British had better trained crew, tended to shoot at sails and masts instead of the hull.

So I think we have to find the answer in how the ship reacts in given situations.
So in the basic rules there wont be much to work with, but in the advanced Rules it will be possible to give the ship more persona.

But first thing is to get a decent movement chart for basic rules, so we have to playtest what we have for now to get a decent opinion. I will keep testing my chart and you chart aswell

Let me know how you think on things...

Cheers,

Thijs

Ducky
06-03-2014, 17:07
WE NEED SOME VOLUNTEERS FOR PLAYTESTING!:shock:

And as this is my one hundreth post have a rum from me in the officers mess
:drinks:

7eat51
06-05-2014, 21:49
Will be play testing some games for Origins this weekend with friends. I am going to run at least one of the beginner/basic games with the solo rules, and will post reflections afterwards.

7eat51
06-07-2014, 23:47
Going through this this evening, I have a couple of comments/questions:

1. I think there should be a chart for each maneuver deck along the lines of what is posted here. The range of turns, the length of arrows, all makes a difference. With more play testing, it is possible that each type of ship might react similarly, but given the differences on the cards, I rather not assume that.

2. I think wind needs to be considered. One thing I have noticed is the difference in facing that often occurs on a given arrow path between orange and green. Using a three-letter code is actually quite elegant for incorporating wind.

3. I agree with the three-letter code being from the perspective of the AI ship with one letter for player's ship sector, one letter for player's facing, and one letter for wind. This would have a similar feel to WGF as well in that the solo charts there look at everything from the perspective of the AI plane, and considers whether the player's plane is approaching or moving away. Facing does make a difference.

4. Do the charts assume one sail setting? I can see in a solo game, especially for the basic game, to keep everything at battle sails.

5. I think the +1 mechanism for the distance between ships is simple to execute and intuitive.

6. I will play around with some charts as well along the lines of my previous comments. Regardless of what form the final chart(s) take(s), I think the exercise would be informative.

I can see how easy it will be for such a rule system to become complex the moment we start incorporating other elements, e.g. crew actions, reloading, etc. With WoG, planes fire each maneuver if within range and if the guns are not jammed. Maneuvering here requires thinking about positioning given a possible one-maneuver delay before firing for reloading. Oh the joys. I suggest for the basic rules, we settle on a few principles as well as charts to reign in potential scope creep.

Possible Basic Rule Principles:


Ammo: Ball
Sail Settings: Battle
Raking: Yes
Choice between Short and Long Distance Shots: Always choose short unless raking - for example, if AI ship can shoot short-range via front arc, but long-range via full broadside, choose short range via front - B-damage is more deadly than A-damage - better to have less chits with greater chance of inflicting damage per chit
Veer: Yes - if a die roll would cause a ship to violate veer, choose sharpest turn within veer rating


For more advanced rules, maybe we could develop some simpler mechanisms to allow for special damage and repairs without worrying about planning crew actions and their effects on the charts. Similarly, we could look at other desired rule incorporations and possible simplifications for solo play.

Ducky
06-08-2014, 02:06
Hi Fred,

1. I fully agree on this, we will start with the frigate chart I think... Work our way up to the oceanclass Sol's, after that the sloops?
Do you think the new hebe class frigates from wave 2 can use the same chart as the frigates from wave1?

2. After some testing I agree on this aswell, your charts with the letter codes are easy to use.
What do you think of my rule for the taken aback (red) movement? Maybe we need to look again at that rule for standard and advanced games since you play with the 2 hourglasses on the cards?

3. Fully agree on this, so we need to change the codes on the charts to match this new perspective...
When determining the "letter" for the player ship's facing we take the sector of the AI ship that it is sailing towards?
For example two ships sailing towards each other from the front starboard it would be "B" for the AI ship and "D" for the player ship, so an "AD...." Code. Trace a line between the AI and player's ship mainmast to determine sectors?

4. For basic games only the battle sails setting.
For standard and advanced games the setting of the AI ship depends from the distance between two ships:
-more than a ruler length: full sails
-within a ruler length: battle sails
- within half a ruler: backing sails

5. We take the +1 within a ruler distance, and maybe add a +2 within half a ruler distance when needed after some playtesting.
So for now a +1 within a ruler it is?

6. I will play with the above mentioned rules settings; but first we need to re-code the chart to the different view in player sector and facing.

For the principles add:

The continuos shot: when the AI ship can hit the players ship after firing previous turn.
Then reload when able to and no shots can be made due to distance or firingarc.

The first broadside rule: the AI ship waits to fire its first broadside until it has the players ship in full broadside.
Maybe with the addition of being in short distance (B damage) also; so it has the full advantage of first broadside, unless able to rake on long distance.

Do we need to make a basic rule on to grapple:
AI ship always tries to grapple If it has less damage than player's ship and isnt outclassed

Add the entangle rule when bases touch each other.

I think for the actions part the charts from the rulebook for soloplay are fine.
They have a priority within the choice of actions. And are simple enough.
You still have to keep track on actions on the ship mat, regardless of what Rules we make.

The optional rules should be kept optional so players can choose to which Rules they apply.

This is my point of view on things....
Let me know if you have a different point of view.

Cheers,

Thijs

7eat51
06-08-2014, 11:17
Hi Thijs,

Here are some responses/thoughts to your comments:

1. We should think about maneuver chart development based on the maneuver card decks, as opposed to classes of ships. The maneuver decks dictate the actual movement possibilities on the game surface. If two decks are very similar, we could make one chart to be used with both decks. We can consider classes of ships in principle terms, such as frigates choose to engage other frigates as opposed to SoLs, or some such things.

2. I think as far as taken aback, it might be easiest to make some sort of die roll mechanism, such as on the first taken aback, a 1-2 = 4- red card, 3-4 = 5 red card, 5-6 = 6+ red card. For the 2nd and following taken aback, a 1-4 = turn in the direction that creates a broadside to the closest enemy ship, 5-6 = turn the other way. At least something along these lines for the basic game. This would still provide some measure of randomness and potential surprise for the player.

3. The facing of the player's ship should correspond to the quadrant of the AI ship. For example, it doesn't matter which sector the player's ship is in, if the player's ship is facing in the direction of the port-bow of the AI ship, it has a facing letter of A. This means is could be in the starboard rear sector approaching the AI ship, the port rear sector of the AI ship sailing somewhat away from the AI ship, the port-bow sector sailing somewhat away from the AI ship, or the starboard-bow sector somewhat on a collision course with the ship. I hope this makes sense. Otherwise, we could have a two letter designation for facing - A = facing toward the ship, B = facing away from the ship. This could be easiest.

4. I think play testing will answer this regarding sail settings, but the logic of what your propose is intuitively pleasing. One thing to consider is whether the AI ship is trying to engage or break off.

5. Again, play testing. I think the +2 within 1/2 ruler again has intuitive appeal, assuming the AI is not trying to set up a rake or break off. It might be in situations like this that the player has to make a judgment call if the maneuvers given don't make sense given what is occurring on the table.

What do you think of having continuous fire and first broadside be scenario rules, and not standard for all games?

For the basic rule set, I would avoid grappling, entanglement, special damage, and crew actions.

fredmiracle
06-08-2014, 13:32
*** Regarding being taken aback:

I've just been treating AI ships the same as normal ones. If they would play a turn of 8, and are taken aback, then they use the 6+ red card. It seems to work ok so far.


*** Regarding standard/advanced/optional rules:

So far I've just been playing basic rules. So no continuous fire, optional ammo, boarding, sail setting, etc.

The one exception (I think) is raking, which does seem so fundamental to naval tactics of the period as to be necessary.

My feeling on sail setting, from normal play, is that it's very situation specific. If I'm navigating a narrow spot I want backing sails. If I need to close quickly (say to help out an isolated ship under attack) I want full sails. I'm often thinking about whether I will have actions to spare to get back to battle sails when necessary, or what happens if I lose crew and can't perform the sail action. But I think it's hard to specify AI rules to capture these details. Ducky's rule seems good, but maybe just always using battle sails would be fine too.

My feeling on continuous fire and first broadside is colored by the fact that I haven't found them very fun in normal play. First broadside tends to cripple ships too quickly out of the gate. I think it's sufficient to allow them to start double-shotted (if desired). Continuous fire is historically accurate, but I find it doesn't work too well at the game's level of granularity, and it kills the considerable fun of broadside management


*** regarding larger ships:

I guess my first question is how well it will work if ships just play the sharpest angle they have. If the chart calls for an 9 and you only have a 7, that's what you play. Is that good enough? Or does the AI need to handle an SOL in fundamentally different ways, given it can't turn as sharply?

7eat51
06-08-2014, 13:45
I think for basic games, only using Battle Sails is sufficient. While playing the initial campaign, we can discuss a mechanism for utilizing other settings, though simplicity in a set of AI rules is key, IMHO.

I think many rule options could be based on scenario requirements. In the end, though, every player should feel the freedom to alter things as desired. We are not playing a tournament, so whatever maximizes one's enjoyment of playing, ...

One thing to consider regarding the difference between smaller and larger ships is not just the sharpness of turning angles, but the length of the arrows in terms of distance traveled. For these combined reasons, I suggest separate charts. Again, more play testing by multiple people will highlight the need, or lack thereof. This is why we're structuring the first campaign to be three months; we will have timely feedback to enhance the basic and more advanced rule sets going forward. We can then play a second three-month campaign before year's end with updated rules. By the new year, we should have some sets ready to go for a year-long campaign.

JAC
06-09-2014, 13:28
I tried the rules with variable wind and works fine!! the AI tends to leave the map frequently but it is easy to arrange making it to turn when the ships are at half ruler distance from the edge. To make it a little bit more challenging I made the AI to use C or D damage when my ships were in range. Will post the whole battle as soon as I have some time...

fredmiracle
06-09-2014, 13:50
Glad to have another tester Jaime!


the AI tends to leave the map frequently but it is easy to arrange making it to turn when the ships are at half ruler distance from the edge.

Yeah it's not hard to handle informally. I was trying to make some formal rules for the map edge (and maybe for islands/coasts/reefs) but I wasn't sure I was quite there yet.

I didn't necessarily want to prevent the AI ship from sailing parallel to and close to the map edge, so what I was trying was this: the AI ship must end it's move on-map AND with a clear half ruler of map ahead of it. If it can't do that with the selected movement card, then choose increasingly sharp turns until it will result in the AI ship having a half ruler of water ahead of it.

7eat51
06-09-2014, 18:56
I am moving some of the posts from the solo campaign thread to this one. The posts concern rule development as opposed to discussions about the campaign.

Nightmoss
06-09-2014, 19:49
So, are the "Solo Rules for Dummies" ready for prime time? I keep saying I'm going to do some work here, but the ships themselves keep beckoning. I fear at this point I'm way behind the class?! Apologies.

Ducky
06-09-2014, 19:57
Hi Jim,

I think we are on the good path concerning the rules but they are far from done yet!
I think the first real test will be the first solo campaign storting in july.

No apolagies needed since you are out master craftsman at the modelling bit of SoG, but some more testers would speed up things I think :wink:

7eat51
06-09-2014, 20:49
Jim, you should have plenty of time to develop your scenario. Thijs has first dibs on which month to run a scenario; you have second dibs, and Fred has the remaining month. The rules will be basic enough that one or two plays and folks will have the hang of things regarding mechanics.

I agree with Thijs, as one of our master craftsman who continually inspires and teaches us, no apology is needed - you have your hands full, literally. :wink:

Nightmoss
06-10-2014, 00:10
Hi Jim,

I think we are on the good path concerning the rules but they are far from done yet!
I think the first real test will be the first solo campaign storting in july.

No apolagies needed since you are out master craftsman at the modelling bit of SoG, but some more testers would speed up things I think :wink:


Jim, you should have plenty of time to develop your scenario. Thijs has first dibs on which month to run a scenario; you have second dibs, and Fred has the remaining month. The rules will be basic enough that one or two plays and folks will have the hang of things regarding mechanics.

I agree with Thijs, as one of our master craftsman who continually inspires and teaches us, no apology is needed - you have your hands full, literally. :wink:

Thanks much, but I will make more of an effort here to contribute. :hatsoff:

fredmiracle
06-12-2014, 17:09
OK, here's my draft of a consolidated quick-reference document for solitaire play. It includes my current chart, along with an example of the 3-letter code, and an attempt to encode a few of the other basic solitaire rules

Are you still playing without the wind Ducky? Do we have any thoughts on which is better?

I still haven't cross-referenced your most recent chart (quadrants but no wind) with mine to see how different they are.

10218

Thoughts/improvements/edits welcome. Ideally it will be clear and accessible for people that are new to it, as well as reasonably complete and quick to use.

Right now the first page is coming from an XL file and the second from a word document; they can be uploaded if necessary.

Ducky
06-13-2014, 00:33
Ive played a few games with your chart, but ill have to play a few more with my "without wind" chart to get a decent opinion.
I hope a can play a few more games this weekend.

But I think we have a good enough set to make a start with the solo campaign.
Time will learn what adjustments have to be made.

I like the simple ruling of taking the nearest Sharp turn available for other ships.

I think the ships do not run of the board too much and a simple rule of start turning when within half a ruler should prevent ships runninh of the board...

soul taker
06-13-2014, 09:29
Fred

Thanks for puting the diagrams in your latest chart. The example really helped clear up how it all worked. I'm going to try this out this weekend and see if I've got it down.

Nightmoss
06-13-2014, 21:51
I made my first attempt at a solo game late this afternoon. I really didn't complete the battle so even though I took a number of photos I figure I shouldn't post anything in the Mission AAR section. What I did come up with is a couple of questions, which most likely have obvious answers, but here goes just the same.

Basic Rules Only (no Standard or Advanced). Ships were Black Pearl (HMS Terpsichore) and Royal Fortune (Courageuse).

1. If the two ships are ever exactly on the line dividing a quadrant how do you decide which quadrant is correct? (I set them up exactly opposite one another on the mat)
2. If the wind direction ever matches exactly with the line dividing a quadrant how do you decide which quadrant is correct? (Initially the wind was directly out of the east at a 90 degree angle to both ships)
3. The instructions say the AI ship(s) handle taken aback as normal, but the Basic rules have you use the two hour glass direction as default, what determines which of the three cards is chosen for the maneuver?

I did have fun and outside of the taken aback question movement was pretty clear using the grid, die roll, etc. Almost had one collision, but the ships passed safely. It was a great way to familiarize oneself with all of the rules so I do plan to have another go at it soon (and another read of the rule book).

If you want some visual examples of the fight let me know. When I quit the two ships were just about equal in damage although the Pearl had gotten in a nasty last shot.

fredmiracle
06-14-2014, 01:18
1. If the two ships are ever exactly on the line dividing a quadrant how do you decide which quadrant is correct? (I set them up exactly opposite one another on the mat)


If the majority of the ship base is in one quadrant or the other, I use that. Usually that resolves it. If there's a tie, I'd probably choose the one containing the front of the ship--i.e. the quadrant it's headed toward, not the one it is leaving. In the case you're talking about, that still wouldn't resolve it, so in that case I'd flip a coin (or E chit draw).


2. If the wind direction ever matches exactly with the line dividing a quadrant how do you decide which quadrant is correct? (Initially the wind was directly out of the east at a 90 degree angle to both ships)


If it's coming from ahead or astern, I'd flip a coin. If it's on the beam, I might choose the aft quadrant, or just flip a coin there too



3. The instructions say the AI ship(s) handle taken aback as normal, but the Basic rules have you use the two hour glass direction as default, what determines which of the three cards is chosen for the maneuver?


I forgot that in Basic you always use the double hourglass--I was thinking it was always the single hourglass.

Nevertheless I don't think it matters. Basically you just use the red card that corresponds to the maneuver card that was generated for the AI ship. So if the AI's maneuver is a 3 (say), you'd use the 4- red card. If the maneuver is a 10, you'd use the 6+ red card. If the maneuver is a 5/sideslip, you'd use the 5 red card.

Ducky
06-14-2014, 06:33
I agree with Fred on al those issues.
Its the way I played them aswell.

And yes the taken aback rule should be used in the way Fred says also.
Thats the way I designed it.

Im planning on some solo runs tomorrow ;)

Nightmoss
06-14-2014, 09:19
If the majority of the ship base is in one quadrant or the other, I use that. Usually that resolves it. If there's a tie, I'd probably choose the one containing the front of the ship--i.e. the quadrant it's headed toward, not the one it is leaving. In the case you're talking about, that still wouldn't resolve it, so in that case I'd flip a coin (or E chit draw).



If it's coming from ahead or astern, I'd flip a coin. If it's on the beam, I might choose the aft quadrant, or just flip a coin there too



I forgot that in Basic you always use the double hourglass--I was thinking it was always the single hourglass.

Nevertheless I don't think it matters. Basically you just use the red card that corresponds to the maneuver card that was generated for the AI ship. So if the AI's maneuver is a 3 (say), you'd use the 4- red card. If the maneuver is a 10, you'd use the 6+ red card. If the maneuver is a 5/sideslip, you'd use the 5 red card.


I agree with Fred on al those issues.
Its the way I played them aswell.

And yes the taken aback rule should be used in the way Fred says also.
Thats the way I designed it.

Im planning on some solo runs tomorrow ;)

Thanks both for your feedback. I think I 'chose' correctly when the issue of quadrants (ship and wind) came up.

I might have messed up on the taken aback maneuver in one or two cases though, but now I know specifically that the AI ship first generates a card using the normal procedure and that card determines which of the 3 taken aback cards is used. Excellent! I know it's been discussed on the forums before, but taken aback ships can suddenly become quite deadly!!

Here's another question concerning combat. I'll post a photo so you can comment if I got it right or wrong. The Royal Fortune (on the right) has a rear arc broadside shot on the Black Pearl (on the left). The Black Pearl does not have any corresponding broadside shot, but is in range for a musketry shot. That's how I played it and was that correct? Thanks!

10219

Ducky
06-15-2014, 06:40
Yes the Black pearl can use musketry, but the Royal fortune can use musketry aswell!

Nightmoss
06-15-2014, 09:42
Yes the Black pearl can use musketry, but the Royal fortune can use musketry aswell!

Thanks. Royal Fortune, IIRC, took the rear arc broadside shot instead, which was more effective.

Nightmoss
06-15-2014, 09:49
I set up another solo game last night. HMS Bellona (me) vs. the Austerlitz (AI). The grid and quadrant system worked very well and whenever there wasn't a corresponding card for the 1st rate ship I used the closest movement card that I could match.

I don't think I need to post the AAR unless there's a request for it. The confrontation went much longer than I thought it would and while it was touch and go to a point the size of the Austerlitz won the day (1st rates can soak up a huge amount of damage).

Ducky
06-15-2014, 10:27
Thanks. Royal Fortune, IIRC, took the rear arc broadside shot instead, which was more effective.

I thought the fortune could take the broadsite shot and the musketry aswell.
There is no rule you should choose one of both.

So a missed chance by the fortune... Not so fortuned!

Nightmoss
06-15-2014, 15:10
I thought the fortune could take the broadsite shot and the musketry aswell.
There is no rule you should choose one of both.

So a missed chance by the fortune... Not so fortuned!

Ah, I see how I messed that up. Thank you. And musketry fire does not require reloading so you can shoot every turn if you're in range. That would have made a difference in last nights solo game as well, but only on one or two turns?

One more question/comment concerning French 1st rates and the wind attitude indicator. The rules tell you to match the indicator with the main mast of a ship to determine if the ship is going to use beating/running, reaching or taken back. As the main mast of the French 1st rates is set back from the card/base center it can make a difference in what read you'll get from the indicator. I went with rules as written, but I could see some folks questioning this? How would you rule?

Ducky
06-15-2014, 16:39
I believe musketry only needs sort of planning in advanced games where you need to plan the action to fire musketry;
So it needs no reloading and can be used in subsequent turns.

I always use the main mast ruling, could be the reason that there is a slight difference in where the color changes from red to orange between french and british design ships? I recall there is a difference...

Nightmoss
06-15-2014, 16:54
I believe musketry only needs sort of planning in advanced games where you need to plan the action to fire musketry;
So it needs no reloading and can be used in subsequent turns.

I always use the main mast ruling, could be the reason that there is a slight difference in where the color changes from red to orange between french and british design ships? I recall there is a difference...

Again, thanks for the answer(s).

I'll probably try one more basic rules solo game before I move on to standard and advanced rules. As I said before I think the grid system is working quite well. And while I would never claim to be a good sailor, I'm finding the AI system quite adroit at kicking my @!?%!

Will the current grid stay in place and a new one added for the Wave 2 ships or will Fred, you and others be modifying this one for inclusion of the new ships? If I recall correctly the upcoming scenarios aren't going to include any of the Wave 2 ships so it's not something that's urgent by any means.

Ducky
06-15-2014, 17:06
I think the grid system needs only minor adjustments, If any are needed.
I could think the system maybe needs some adjustments for the ocean class SOL or the sloops.

Maybe be should try the current system first with those ships.

And indeed I also got my ass kicked some times by the AI ships.
Thats a good thing cause it means their movement is quite good, most of the games I played against AI where decided by the damage chits drawn.

But indeed we can take our time since they arent included in the first campaign.

I really appreciate your playtesting Jim and the feedback and questions you come up with!

fredmiracle
06-15-2014, 19:22
One more question/comment concerning French 1st rates and the wind attitude indicator. The rules tell you to match the indicator with the main mast of a ship to determine if the ship is going to use beating/running, reaching or taken back. As the main mast of the French 1st rates is set back from the card/base center it can make a difference in what read you'll get from the indicator. I went with rules as written, but I could see some folks questioning this? How would you rule?

Like you and Thijs, I too have been playing rules-as-written, and measuring to the mainmast (specifically I've been using the base of the mainmast). On almost all ships the mainmast is behind the centerpoint. So this will definitely have an effect on things when they are close, but the exact magnitude of the effect will vary from ship to ship.

A recent thread about raking suggested that many people prefer to measure to the center of the base, however. So I guess you can do that if you prefer and are consistent about it. Personally I don't like to have to take the ship on and off the base a lot...

Nightmoss
06-15-2014, 19:25
I think the grid system needs only minor adjustments, If any are needed.
I could think the system maybe needs some adjustments for the ocean class SOL or the sloops.

Maybe be should try the current system first with those ships.

And indeed I also got my ass kicked some times by the AI ships.
Thats a good thing cause it means their movement is quite good, most of the games I played against AI where decided by the damage chits drawn.

But indeed we can take our time since they arent included in the first campaign.

I really appreciate your playtesting Jim and the feedback and questions you come up with!

I've really enjoyed playing the solo games and I thank everyone who's been involved with their creation. It takes me back to when I would play Avalon Hill wargames solo (because no one could be talked into trying them). I'd move from one side of the kitchen table to the other shuffling the cardboard counters "objectively" trying to beat the opponent on each turn. It didn't always work, but it was fun just the same.

Planning forward I think the solo scenario campaigns are going to be great. With a bit more experience now at least I can start thinking about how to write one up. It will be interesting to see if Eric returns from Origins with any ideas on how we might want to plan them out?

I did use the French 1st rate last night. While there were some cards called for in the grid that didn't exist in the "F" deck the ship AI did extremely well. There was only one collision and that ended on the next move.

Nightmoss
06-15-2014, 19:30
Like you and Thijs, I too have been playing rules-as-written, and measuring to the mainmast (specifically I've been using the base of the mainmast). On almost all ships the mainmast is behind the centerpoint. So this will definitely have an effect on things when they are close, but the exact magnitude of the effect will vary from ship to ship.

A recent thread about raking suggested that many people prefer to measure to the center of the base, however. So I guess you can do that if you prefer and are consistent about it. Personally I don't like to have to take the ship on and off the base a lot...

Thanks Fred. It was that raking thread that made me wonder about the wind attitude indicator as it relates to the main mast. I think for myself sticking with the main mast is best (I don't like removing ships either). If I remember right the raking discussion ended with a stance that if the line of fire passes through both short ends of the base you've got a raking shot?

Nightmoss
06-16-2014, 19:53
Here's another request for clarification on the solo rules use. When the AI ship and a player ship get within long range you add 1 to the die roll. When the AI ship and a player ship are within short range you add 2 to the die roll. Due to how the ships have moved in games I've tested so far it's never been difficult to know what die roll you need to use, until today.

So, is measurement to determine when to roll 1 or 2 taken from the main mast of the AI ship to the base of the player ship? Or, is it taken from any point on the base of the AI ship to the base of a player ship?

For consistency we could use the main mast as it is used for wind attitude indication? Or, we could use a measurement from the red dots as used in determining range for firing guns (I guess I would use the red dot closest to the player ship if we go that route). Thoughts?

Ducky
06-17-2014, 00:32
I use the red dots from the AI ship to players ship base, so the same as with shooting to keep things simple

Nightmoss
06-17-2014, 09:52
I use the red dots from the AI ship to players ship base, so the same as with shooting to keep things simple

Sounds good to me. It's how I played it last night. Another solo game with Basic Rules (Black Pearl and Royal Fortune against the Queen Anne's Revenge). It was an interesting battle and I"ll try to get at least a brief AAR up so you can comment on my interpretation and use of the rules.

One thing I'm going to look into is a better means of marking ships that have be moved or removed while you're trying to resolve collisions? My mats are still too new and slippery so there's a lot of jostling going on as well.

soul taker
06-18-2014, 08:53
I played a game with these rules last night. I thought the AI ships moved really well, better then me more then once. There was a couple of times were I thought the AI ship had an odd choice for a movement, but after moveing the ships that turn it allways seemed to be the right choice.

7eat51
06-18-2014, 12:35
I have to catch up on this past week's posts in this thread, and I am not sure if this is covered in the captain/crew deck, but based on some of the battles at Origins, we could have a crew ability card that diminishes some of the effects of crew damage, e.g. ignore the first two crew hits taken. This would be available as a given crew survives and gains experience. Crew damage put several relatively untouched ships out of commission.

I will work on all non-movement rules associated with the campaign this week, posting them for your feedback.

fredmiracle
06-18-2014, 12:57
My experiences to date suggest that that it would be beneficial to do some more fine tuning to the handling of advanced rule issues like crew actions and boarding.

On my "cheat sheet" I put some proposed revisions to how actions should be prioritized, as compared to what is listed in the rulebook. For one thing, they forgot about pumping. For another, the rulebook prioritizes musketry higher than I would. But there is definitely some room to give more flexibility. For example, in some cases (lots of hull but low on actions) it's probably better to repair the leak, but defer the pumping and allow some water to accumulate.

Similarly, there is the question of how the AI should handle grappling and boarding. I.e., when would it like to grapple and when would it try to avoid it.

All these can be left to "player's discretion" but maybe it would be helpful to have some guidelines...

Nightmoss
06-18-2014, 17:17
I played a game with these rules last night. I thought the AI ships moved really well, better then me more then once. There was a couple of times were I thought the AI ship had an odd choice for a movement, but after moveing the ships that turn it allways seemed to be the right choice.

I know what you mean. The AI frequently makes me feel quite inept?!

Nightmoss
06-18-2014, 17:21
My experiences to date suggest that that it would be beneficial to do some more fine tuning to the handling of advanced rule issues like crew actions and boarding.

On my "cheat sheet" I put some proposed revisions to how actions should be prioritized, as compared to what is listed in the rulebook. For one thing, they forgot about pumping. For another, the rulebook prioritizes musketry higher than I would. But there is definitely some room to give more flexibility. For example, in some cases (lots of hull but low on actions) it's probably better to repair the leak, but defer the pumping and allow some water to accumulate.

Similarly, there is the question of how the AI should handle grappling and boarding. I.e., when would it like to grapple and when would it try to avoid it.

All these can be left to "player's discretion" but maybe it would be helpful to have some guidelines...

I've not graduated to Standard or Advanced Rules yet, so I'll take the easy way out and defer to your and others decisions. :wink:

7eat51
06-18-2014, 17:46
All these can be left to "player's discretion" but maybe it would be helpful to have some guidelines...

I think the solo rules should provide guidelines on such matters so players can have some consistency throughout a campaign. Player discretion comes in when the AI mechanism proposes something that just doesn't make sense given what is on the table. If discretion is used too often, however, one might as well simply play both sides. I have often had the AI mechanism do unexpected things, and that is what made the games fun. I expected one thing, and another thing happened. Only when the mechanism would have resulted in a plane flying off the board unnecessarily, for example, did I overrule the AI charts/rules.

I look forward to reading what you think about grappling and boarding. I suggest some type of die roll with factor modifiers - simple and quick. For example, on a 5 or 6, board. For every two crew counter advantage, add +1 to the die roll; for every … add …

Here is an example from OTT regarding crashing/wound effects. This type of mechanism is quite easy to navigate and takes minimal time to resolve:


Resolution of Crashes/Wounds etc

This is how we resolve what happens when a pilot is shot down, crashes, or, is wounded:
Updates in Red are applied to Mission 9 onwards

Roll 2D6

Crashing and wounded Effects Table:
2 or less - Dead!
3-4 - Severely Injured - Skip 1D6Scenarios
5-6 - Injured - Skip 1D3 Scenarios
7-8 - Bruised - Skip 1 Scenario
9+ - All well when you land well!

Modifiers to dice roll:
Ace: +2 ------------------------Your pilots skill helps his landing
Exploded: -3 --------------------Boom card drawn for any reason - overrides flamer/collision
Flamer: -2 ----------------------Downed by fire or downed whilst burning
Collision: -2 ---------------------Downed due to Collision
Shot Down -1 -------------------Just shot to bits!
Wounded: -1 per wound ---------Receive 2 wounds & you're shot down
Landed safely in Aerodrome: +3
Crash landed in No Mans Land or Sea -1

soul taker
06-19-2014, 07:56
I have to catch up on this past week's posts in this thread, and I am not sure if this is covered in the captain/crew deck, but based on some of the battles at Origins, we could have a crew ability card that diminishes some of the effects of crew damage, e.g. ignore the first two crew hits taken. This would be available as a given crew survives and gains experience. Crew damage put several relatively untouched ships out of commission.

I will work on all non-movement rules associated with the campaign this week, posting them for your feedback.

There is a Capt. and crew card that has a similar effect. Both of them take effect when you only have one crew box left. Charismatic Captain, and Hold Fast.

7eat51
06-19-2014, 08:20
Thanks, Rob. I will read through that deck this week. I haven't used it yet, so I am unfamiliar with it.

I wonder if there could be a card that takes effect in the beginning as opposed to the last box, something like "Hit the Deck" or "Take Cover". One, this would enable a ship to have its crew during a fight, and, two, this would go along with the system I am preparing for crew experience (this will make more sense once presented for feedback).

7eat51
06-19-2014, 12:11
Great work folks. I just read through the past week's postings and looked at the latest maneuver rule version - nicely done. I will play a solo game tomorrow after work, and will post my reflections. This is pretty exciting.

For this first campaign, I think all sails should be set to battle sails, and all ammo should be ball, for both sides. During the second mini campaign, we can work out a mechanism for sail settings and ammo choices, if so desired. For our group campaigns, the rules need to be fairly straightforward and quick; for non-campaign games, the rules can be as complex as folks desire. As we play, we can make adjustments based on our experience and insights.

I will start posting basic Campaign related rules (non-maneuver) during the coming week, soliciting your feedback.

Ducky
06-19-2014, 16:22
We appreciate your opinion on the movement chart Eric :drinks:

7eat51
06-20-2014, 21:20
I am in the middle of a game, and so far the mechanism works quite easily. I have to remind myself to add 1 when within a ruler, but other than that, all is going well. The maneuvers seem to make sense. Well done.

I think some of the questions I have should be handled via campaign rules, so, at present, I have no real input on the charts. I think the campaign will be a good test as more players/perspectives interact with the solo rules and charts.

For me, SoG has just gone up a notch given the feasibility of basic solo play. It will be interesting to see what we can do with additional rules over time.

Nightmoss
06-20-2014, 22:24
I am in the middle of a game, and so far the mechanism works quite easily. I have to remind myself to add 1 when within a ruler, but other than that, all is going well. The maneuvers seem to make sense. Well done.

I think some of the questions I have should be handled via campaign rules, so, at present, I have no real input on the charts. I think the campaign will be a good test as more players/perspectives interact with the solo rules and charts.

For me, SoG has just gone up a notch given the feasibility of basic solo play. It will be interesting to see what we can do with additional rules over time.

I very much had that same reaction. I've enjoyed the game up until now primarily for the ships and modeling aspects, but now that there are these solo rules that work so well, it's opened up some new challenges and opportunities for fun.

7eat51
06-20-2014, 22:36
Jim, WoG really took off for me, no pun intended, with the solo campaigns. It is not easy coordinating schedules these days, and with so many different games to play, WoG did not hit the table often enough. What is nice about the campaigns is sharing the scenarios with others, so not only does one have the opportunity to play, but to play in community.

In the future, we should attempt a Skype game. I played in one on the 'Drome with members from around the world. The host did all of the movement, etc. using an overhead camera. All of the players had the appropriate maneuver decks, and would inform him of what cards we were playing. It was a lot of fun.

I also played in a WoG email game. Every few days, we would email our maneuvers, the host would play them, taking photos after each card. It, too, worked quite well.

Given today's technology, we have several options for group play that are relatively easy to implement. Once we have the first scenario under our belt in the upcoming campaign, we can try an additional format for a game. I will start a thread accordingly come that time, and we'll see what comes of it.

Nightmoss
06-21-2014, 00:23
Jim, WoG really took off for me, no pun intended, with the solo campaigns. It is not easy coordinating schedules these days, and with so many different games to play, WoG did not hit the table often enough. What is nice about the campaigns is sharing the scenarios with others, so not only does one have the opportunity to play, but to play in community.

In the future, we should attempt a Skype game. I played in one on the 'Drome with members from around the world. The host did all of the movement, etc. using an overhead camera. All of the players had the appropriate maneuver decks, and would inform him of what cards we were playing. It was a lot of fun.

I also played in a WoG email game. Every few days, we would email our maneuvers, the host would play them, taking photos after each card. It, too, worked quite well.

Given today's technology, we have several options for group play that are relatively easy to implement. Once we have the first scenario under our belt in the upcoming campaign, we can try an additional format for a game. I will start a thread accordingly come that time, and we'll see what comes of it.

Skype or emails games do sounds like fun. I wonder if it's the future of gaming, especially for folks in very remote locations? Makes me think of one aspect of Asimov's "The Naked Sun".

7eat51
06-24-2014, 07:56
Later today, I will post some solo rules for your consideration and feedback. I think we have a good set of maneuver guidelines, so once we has out a few more items, we should be good to go for the campaign. I reserved a bunch of posts in the beginning of the campaign thread in which I will gather all of our rules once finalized, including links to files/pdfs.

fredmiracle
06-24-2014, 11:38
Skype or emails games do sounds like fun. I wonder if it's the future of gaming, especially for folks in very remote locations? Makes me think of one aspect of Asimov's "The Naked Sun".

Yes, I'd like to figure out a system for straightforward online play. Ideally it would not necessarily require both players to be online simultaneously, since we have members from around the world and with all different work and family schedules.

It would be useful for people without gaming groups or who just need a quick SoG fix; but it would also enable online tournaments and such. A valuable resource for building the online community...

7eat51
06-24-2014, 12:46
Fred, I forgot if it was here or on the 'Drome, but someone inquired about Vassal. Have you ever used it?

fredmiracle
06-24-2014, 13:17
I have played around a bit with Vassal, just enough to be dangerous. It seems it's mostly aimed for "interactive" play (i.e. with both people online simultaneously), but perhaps it has a PBM capability too (?)

I imagine it would work, if "someone" were to take the effort to create a module.

One issue is that unlike a standalone boardgame, it would need regular updating as new ships are released. This is the kind of thing that often falls by the wayside--the one person that understands it gets busy, and oh well...

Another potential issue is that it might ruffle Ares' feathers, since one would (presumably) have to scan in not only the ship mats, but all the maneuver cards as well. I felt a little twinge about uploading just my spreadsheet--even though I think it's a resource which could only help encourage sales of the game. Creating a full online play environment with maneuver decks might also encourage sales of the game by creating more excitement and online community, but it would be a judgement call, and quite possibly more than Ares would tolerate.

7eat51
06-24-2014, 13:40
Keith and I briefly spoke about Vassal, and he raised the copyright issue as well. I have never used Vassal, but I know of its existence through BGG.

I agree completely about something like a Vassal game being reliant upon a given individual's effort. Unless a community contributes, such ventures could be short lived.

Once the solo campaigns are underway, we could try a play-by-email game. I played in one on the 'Drome, and the host devised a very nice system for it. It was very easy for the players to engage. The host needs a space in which a game can be left up for a couple of weeks, and a good camera to capture the positions of the ships. I think this could be easily done, and we can rotate hosting duty each game.

Berthier
06-25-2014, 00:20
There's also cyberboard software and another called Zen I think for gaming, either live or by alternating emailled moves. I've played boardgames using cyberboard and it works well although the system was a bit clunky.

7eat51
06-25-2014, 10:09
Disengagement Rule

Here is the first of several solo rules not focused on maneuvers. The following first draft is offered to generate discussion on disengaging, so feel free to make suggestions for improvement; a final decision/ruling will be made by 29 June to give our first scenario writer the opportunity to make any desired changes to the scenario.

Disengagement

When a ship is within the last three boxes of hull damage or crew hits, role a 6-sided die for disengagement: 1-4 = remain in battle; 5-6 = disengage. Roll each time a ship takes additional damage. Disengaging ships will attempt to exit their side as directly as possible, and will avoid combat, only taking shots of opportunity. The nature of disengaging can be altered based on scenario specific rules.

Modifiers to Disengagement Die Rolls
+1 if both hull damage and crew hits are within the last three boxes
+1 for each enemy ship that is not disengaging (we can set a limit like within 1 ruler, if desired)
-1 for each friendly ship that is not disengaging (we can set a limit like within 1 ruler, if desired)
-1 based on Captain/Crew skills (to be determined)

7eat51
06-25-2014, 10:52
Solo maneuver chart link is in post #99.

If the solo maneuver chart is finished, I will post a link to it in one of the reserved campaign posts for easy access.

fredmiracle
06-25-2014, 11:59
Solo maneuver chart link is in post #99.

If the solo maneuver chart is finished, I will post a link to it in one of the reserved campaign posts for easy access.

As far as I know, there are currently no changes contemplated or suggested.

7eat51
06-25-2014, 13:15
As far as I know, there are currently no changes contemplated or suggested.

Great. I will place the link accordingly.

Ducky
06-25-2014, 14:28
Green light on the solo movement chart!
Enough playtesting has been done to use it for the first solo campaign.

Due to diversity of players in the campaign some feedback on the chart may come during or after the campaign...

Ducky
06-25-2014, 14:29
I like the disengagement Rules aswell,
Haven't played with them but they really make sense!

7eat51
06-25-2014, 14:33
I like the disengagement Rules aswell,
Haven't played with them but they really make sense!

My approach is this - if it makes sense we'll use them, knowing that play testing could result in alterations. Once a few players think we have a reasonable rule in place, I will post them on the campaign thread.

7eat51
06-27-2014, 13:11
Summary of rules thus far is now listed in first post. I will continue to edit this post as we proceed.

7eat51
06-27-2014, 13:18
I am working on a scheme to determine captain injuries, deaths, and captures, AAR guidelines, and scenario writing guidelines.

We need to solidify the maneuver and basic combat rules. In the future, we'll develop a more advanced set of rules to include boarding, etc., play testing it in the October-December campaign.

We need to solidify a list of captain/crew skills, expanding on the captain/crew deck options.

We need to solidify a character advancement/promotion scheme.

Any suggestions to the solo rules, please make them on the solo rule thread. Any suggestions regarding the upcoming July-September campaign, please make them on the campaign thread.

Solo Rule thread: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?1018-Solo-Play-rule-development-thread
Campaign thread: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?2449-Solo-Campaign-July-to-Sept-2014

CSherrange
06-27-2014, 20:35
Played my first game tonight with the solo mvement rules. I belive they worked splendidly. Used a British frigate from wave 2 vs the 2 American Sloops (my force). I barely managed a win, with one sloop gone and the other limping when the British frigate blew up due to two fire tokens and a raging blaze. The rules worked really well when it came to movement, and when it came to shooting at short range I rolled a die and on a 1-2 the AI fired Ball, 3-5 Grape, and on a 6 chain regardless of what was actually loaded on the AI vessel. Worked really well in my opinion.

7eat51
06-30-2014, 08:00
Last Call

1. If you have any suggestions for the basic rule set, please post today. I will update the finial rules tomorrow morning. They can be found at the beginning of this thread. I will create pdfs pertaining to the final rules and upload as files.
2. As we play the first campaign, please provide feedback on the basic rule set.
3. During the next three months, we'll work on an intermediate rule set. I will post some guidelines on that set later this month. The goal will be to have two or three rule sets that enable players to engage at different levels of complexity.

I am working on a scheme to determine captain injuries, deaths, and captures, AAR guidelines, and scenario writing guidelines.

We need to solidify the maneuver and basic combat rules. In the future, we'll develop a more advanced set of rules to include boarding, etc., play testing it in the October-December campaign.

We need to solidify a list of captain/crew skills, expanding on the captain/crew deck options.

We need to solidify a character advancement/promotion scheme.

Any suggestions to the solo rules, please make them on the solo rule thread. Any suggestions regarding the upcoming July-September campaign, please make them on the campaign thread.

Solo Rule thread: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...lopment-thread
Campaign thread: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...y-to-Sept-2014

spiessbuerger
06-30-2014, 12:19
only rule-questions:

1. The player plans the common two manoeuvers for his ship? AI only one? (standard/advanced rules)

2. I plan the AI actions after determining the AI manoeuver card? Otherwise I don't know exactly what broadside I should activate (advanced rules)

7eat51
06-30-2014, 12:25
1. With the basic rule set, the one we'll use for the first campaign, players only need to plan the current move. Once planned, roll for the AI move. In more advanced rule sets, we'll have plan ahead mechanism in place.

2. For the basic game and first campaign, there are no crew actions. In upcoming sets, additional rules will be incorporated.

jmkinki
08-12-2014, 16:58
Greetings,

I'm going to follow this post, because I'm interested in AI rules and solo campaign rules too.

I have started a contact with Eric and Fred. I'm still have to read carefully these rules in order to give you some suggestions. Now, I have started my holidays and my 3 daughters, and my soon requires a lot of time!

Eric, have you received my email with WoW solo rules? As far as you can see they are based in other ones published at WoW aerodrome, but I have added a decision diagram and 2 tables for each manoeuvre deck.

Something like that, I think it should be applied to SoG. A decision chart could be made taking in consideration number of enemy ships, distance to enemy ships or enemy ship classes for example.

jmkinki
10-10-2014, 09:51
Hi friends,

I'm writting rules... however I have made the first version of the decision diagram. I have called it decision assistance sheet:

11889

I have to continue with solo template and manouevre tables... perhaps I need some help with this...

Diamondback
10-10-2014, 10:40
Looks like a good start there, JM. :) Seems logical.

JAC
10-20-2014, 12:35
Hi there!! long time without visiting...but at last... yesterday I managed to play some few solo games with the rules. I think it works GREEEAT!!!. The 3 letter system works just fine and it isSO easy to determine...the AI behave so well that I ended going out of the table (photos later).so I am ready to try the campaign. Thanks guys for all the work, sadly I didn´t help as much as i wanted but I will try to have some input as soon as i start playing the campaingn!!

JAC
10-20-2014, 12:50
where do I find the scenarios?

7eat51
10-20-2014, 13:20
Hi Jaime. Check out this forum: http://sailsofglory.org/forumdisplay.php?38-2014-Solo-Campaigns

Herkybird
01-10-2015, 18:44
Hi all, dont know if anyone is interested, but I have done a set of solo rules for SofG which are now on the files page here: http://sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=97
..Or, the separate ship files and template are at: http://tynesidewargames.co.uk/downloads.html
I decided the original Wings of Glory solo rules I wrote were a good place to start, but have modified the basic system to make solo ships avoid going into the wind. The rules also account for crew allocation, boarding, etc - for standard and advanced rules users.
I hope they are a helpful addition to the game! :thanks:

Nightmoss
01-10-2015, 20:03
Hi all, dont know if anyone is interested, but I have done a set of solo rules for SofG which are now on the files page here: http://sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=97
..Or, the separate ship files and template are at: http://tynesidewargames.co.uk/downloads.html
I decided the original Wings of Glory solo rules I wrote were a good place to start, but have modified the basic system to make solo ships avoid going into the wind. The rules also account for crew allocation, boarding, etc - for standard and advanced rules users.
I hope they are a helpful addition to the game! :thanks:

Hey Richard. There's actually discussion on our solo campaign thread about using your system for the year long campaign. Eric has linked your charts, etc. located in the files section. I know several members here have used them already and they've been pretty positive about how they work. I just downloaded the stuff today and will start looking them over soon. Thanks for supporting SoG with these rules. :salute:

7eat51
01-10-2015, 22:56
As Jim said, thank you Richard for your effort in creating these rules and for sharing them with us. :hatsoff:

As we proceed through the year, we'll be exploring amendments to the rules and maneuver charts. I look forward to working through what you have authored.

Herkybird
01-11-2015, 07:06
Yes, I had come across the discussion on the Campaign thread, I just thought it would be helpful for crewmembers who hadnt read it to be informed!!!

I think its good how you guys have added bits to the solo rules already produced, as it allows experienced players to shape the rules to what they need.
A campaign will always need additional rules, as you know, as solo rules will always tend to be pitched at 'throw away games'. I believe this is how it should be.
For example, my rules are incapable of balancing a game, it is the players responsibility to ensure the sides are balanced. The solo system will happily fight a Schooner against a first rate...it doesnt mind losing! - but it would be a pretty unrewarding game methinks!

In a campaign, I would probably balance battles using a points system, eg:

100 gun Ship of the Line : 6pts
74 gun Ship of the Line : 4pts
Frigate : 2pts
Unrated : 1 pt

If one side outpoints another by 10%-15% , the smaller force will avoid battle on a 4+ (D6)
If one side outpoints another by more than this, the smaller force will avoid battle.

Based on my 3 games so far played! - disagree if you want! :takecover:

Iron Outlaw
02-22-2015, 01:17
I have just discovered this thread and must confess to missing something along the way.

As a solo player I am keen to see the development of solo rules, however, I am a tad confused with thee various tables that have been developed. Yes, I know, old age, war wounds, ADHD, they all add up!

Am I correct in assuming that the original table showing 12 sectors is indicating sectors 1-6 are to starboard and 7-12 are to port?

I get the die roll across the top but am unsure of the "Red" column, obviously referring to the cards with red borders.

My main difficulty is with the numbers in the grid. Originally I figure they referred to to the manoeuvre cards but I cannot see the connection. So, what exactly do they refer to and how are they applied?

I guess if that can be cleared up I can figure out the ABCD grid as well, at least I hope so.

Many thanks in advance for your kind patience with this senior citizen!

Iron Outlaw
02-22-2015, 01:23
Jose, I downloaded this image from this page but it is hardly readable. I checked the files but did not see it. Is it possible to get a clearer version of it?

Cheers

Iron Outlaw
02-22-2015, 01:25
Apologies, I am referring to the Decision Diagram you posted.

jmkinki
02-22-2015, 02:29
Grretings Brad,

Here you have it with higher resolution:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fQL6naAFgNc/VOmSXTysTTI/AAAAAAAADTU/Okxjk0tQXjg/s1600/Decision%2520assistance%2520sheet.jpg

This sheet is only part of my system. I have to made some moanoeuvre tables, but I haven't do it. I need some help for it from experienced players... The sheet gives you a different manoeuvre to use, and a provides a AI attitude with modifiers to the table dice roll.

Iron Outlaw
02-22-2015, 05:29
Many thanks Jose!

Where you have used the terms, Even Battle, and Odd Full, This does mean odd or even on a dice throw? And the numbers in green, what do they apply to?

I regret my experience with the game is not sufficient to offer any help on the manoeuvre tables, but I look forward to seeing them.

Cheers

7eat51
02-22-2015, 11:45
Brad, this is the set of charts we're currently using in the solo campaign: http://sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=84

They simplify positioning, and once you play a few turns, it becomes quite easy to figure out the three-letter code.

StormforceX
02-22-2015, 14:38
Hi to Iron Outlaw, It's been so long since I did those hand written rules I had forgotten about them. Anyway, as they were a rip off of Herkybirds Wings of Glory system and he now has the "Real Thing", it's called Powder Monkey and is detailed above. I cannot recommend them enough, much better than mine.
Have fun:happy:

Herkybird
02-22-2015, 15:34
Hi to Iron Outlaw, It's been so long since I did those hand written rules I had forgotten about them. Anyway, as they were a rip off of Herkybirds Wings of Glory system and he now has the "Real Thing", it's called Powder Monkey and is detailed above. I cannot recommend them enough, much better than mine.
Have fun:happy:

Thanks for the endorsement! - I had no problem with anyone using my WofG solo system for another game! - I came to SofG late as I had been put off by the cost, and was very interested in your rules, you provided a useable set which answered a need amongst so many players for a solo system, I salute you :salute: - I still consider 'Powder Monkey' a work in progress, and will be happy if someone can bring out something better, I would certainly play it!
If anyone wants me to alter anything in PM, please let me know and I will try to incorporate it if it is a good change!

Happy gaming, and thanks again! :thumbsup:

Iron Outlaw
02-22-2015, 20:33
Many thanks guys and particularly Eric for that link. After reading page 2 it all makes sense now.

Back to sea!

Iron Outlaw
02-23-2015, 00:23
Back again Eric

Could you just clarify for me the definition of the term "Quadrant" in the Rules section dealing with Manoeuvring. It mentions the relationship of a ship and the wind to a Quadrant.

With regard to the Veer numbers in the grid, am I correct in assuming that the slashes indicate the direction of turn for the AI Ship.

Looking at the "H" Deck of cards, they only run from 3 to 7. Am I again correct in assuming that in the instance where, say, a 9 is indicted, one uses the maximum 7 Card.

Think that's all for now.

Cheers

7eat51
02-23-2015, 01:40
Could you just clarify for me the definition of the term "Quadrant" in the Rules section dealing with Manoeuvring. It mentions the relationship of a ship and the wind to a Quadrant.

Brad, in the rules section, the term quadrant refers to the quadrants as indicated on the maneuver chart.


With regard to the Veer numbers in the grid, am I correct in assuming that the slashes indicate the direction of turn for the AI Ship.

If you're referring to the slashes accompanying the #5, they indicate the appropriate #5 card to play - \ = slipping to the port; | = straight ahead; / = slipping to starboard.


Looking at the "H" Deck of cards, they only run from 3 to 7. Am I again correct in assuming that in the instance where, say, a 9 is indicted, one uses the maximum 7 Card.

Correct.

As you play, we welcome any feedback.

Herkybird
03-15-2015, 12:44
Hi to Iron Outlaw, It's been so long since I did those hand written rules I had forgotten about them. Anyway, as they were a rip off of Herkybirds Wings of Glory system and he now has the "Real Thing", it's called Powder Monkey and is detailed above. I cannot recommend them enough, much better than mine.
Have fun:happy:

Hi again!

I have done a Version 2 of the 'Powder Monkey' solo rules. I was informed by a player in the antipodes that he found solo run ships could end up zig-zagging if the enemy ship was between arcs.
I have modified the rules to prevent that, and the ships more aggressive!

The composite rules are awaiting moderation as we speak!
They will be on my club's website soon too http://tynesidewargames.co.uk/downloads.html

If you want them before them, I can send them direct, just E-Mail me at richardbradley5@gmail.com :salute:

Naharaht
03-15-2015, 15:01
Thank you for writing the solo rules, Richard.

Herkybird
03-15-2015, 15:17
Thank you for writing the solo rules, Richard.

I am glad to share them! - I have (I think) deleted version 1 from the downloads page here, so only (I hope!) Version 2 will be available.
I only hope this is the only problem people have found with Powder Monkey!!! :question::beer:

Iron Outlaw
03-15-2015, 17:21
Richard, many thanks for those rule sets.

Am I correct in assuming the rules for 100+ Ships are to cover both 1st Rate, (100+), and 2nd Rate, (98), Ships?

And could you clarify the "Upwind/Downwind" rule. Do I read it as "The Enemy is Upwind (or Downwind) of me" or, "I am Upwind (or Downwind) of the Enemy?"

Cheers

TexaS
03-16-2015, 00:57
The text before says Enemy is upwind/downwind.

Iron Outlaw
03-16-2015, 01:17
Thanks!

Herkybird
03-16-2015, 04:11
Richard, many thanks for those rule sets.

Am I correct in assuming the rules for 100+ Ships are to cover both 1st Rate, (100+), and 2nd Rate, (98), Ships?

And could you clarify the "Upwind/Downwind" rule. Do I read it as "The Enemy is Upwind (or Downwind) of me" or, "I am Upwind (or Downwind) of the Enemy?"

Cheers

Yes, the 100+ ship chart will cover 98s too. The determining factor between the different classes is the number of different turns in the set of cards. The difference in length of move is the difference in the different decks for these classes

And yes, as TexaS correctly answered, it's the ship the solo ship is fighting against, which has to be upwind/ downwind, and determines if the Red or Black lettered manoeuvre row is used on the chart

I assume you are still using version 1 of the rules. I can send you version 2 before it goes on the Files section here, or my clubs downloads page, just E-Mail me at richardbradley5@gmail.com and I will forward them.

Happy gaming! :happy:

TexaS
03-16-2015, 05:16
I used version 1 this weekend trying solo-play for the first time.

I played the Solo Campaign's two first scenarios, but before that I tried it out just to get a hang of it. I managed to get into that zig-zagging on the first try. The second when I went "live" with making the AAR, the starting situation was different and I avoided that. On the other hand it was cut short by a broken mast and boarding. Still very much fun to play.

Herkybird
03-16-2015, 05:52
I used version 1 this weekend trying solo-play for the first time.

I played the Solo Campaign's two first scenarios, but before that I tried it out just to get a hang of it. I managed to get into that zig-zagging on the first try. The second when I went "live" with making the AAR, the starting situation was different and I avoided that. On the other hand it was cut short by a broken mast and boarding. Still very much fun to play.

Yes, I hadn't noticed the Zig-Zag before as our ships were manoeuvering aggressively, thus moving us out of the solo ship's e/f rear arcs. The Zig only really surfaces if using the larger ships (74's and larger) as the frigates/unrated often turn side on to the players ship.
Even my version 2 can cause a zig-zag in the unusual situation of a ship running straight downwind, but there is no way of avoiding this in my estimation, as any rule change risks ships that are running close to the wind turning towards the prevailing wind and backing sail, which the system tries to avoid!
If the solo ship does a zig-zag, the player should move his ship to attack it, and this will usually make the solo ship react differently. :takecover:
Alternatively, just choose a card which will move the solo ship towards the nearest enemy ship, without going into the red zone (backing sail) - in the most direct way. This will replicate the way the solo system aims to work.

I hope this is helpful? :drinks:


Ultimately, no solo system can ever play with the skill and foresight of a real player, and to some degree, players must try to work with the system.

EG: In the Wings of Glory solo's, players often swap a randomly generated manoeuvre card which doesnt seem realistic, with a more reasonable one. This should not occur often, but in my opinion is a good way to play WofG solo.

TexaS
03-16-2015, 07:34
It is helpful, and it would be very hard to make a system that always work.
I was still impressed with the resulting sailing.:hatsoff:

I'm looking forward to version 2.

Herkybird
03-16-2015, 13:21
It is helpful, and it would be very hard to make a system that always work.
I was still impressed with the resulting sailing.:hatsoff:

I'm looking forward to version 2.

Well, just E-Mail me and you can have it! - I promise not to abuse your E-Mail!!! :Arrrr: richardbradley5@gmail.com

One thing that may alleviate the ziggy zaggy problem is the Veer manoeuvre values. As per the main SofG rules, if a ship tries to manoeuvre (x) points of veer more than the previous manoeuvre, that move is replaced by a straight.
This would, at the very least, make the zig-zag more leasurely!

I am not sure when version 2 will be online, the anchorage took a long time to moderate and publish version 1, and my club downloads page is dependant on the availability of the very busy-with-work-and-family chap that runs it! - the site is: http://tynesidewargames.co.uk/downloads.html :drinks:

Herkybird
03-17-2015, 08:52
Well, just E-Mail me and you can have it! - I promise not to abuse your E-Mail!!! :Arrrr: richardbradley5@gmail.com

One thing that may alleviate the ziggy zaggy problem is the Veer manoeuvre values. As per the main SofG rules, if a ship tries to manoeuvre (x) points of veer more than the previous manoeuvre, that move is replaced by a straight.
This would, at the very least, make the zig-zag more leasurely!

I am not sure when version 2 will be online, the anchorage took a long time to moderate and publish version 1, and my club downloads page is dependant on the availability of the very busy-with-work-and-family chap that runs it! - the site is: http://tynesidewargames.co.uk/downloads.html :drinks:

The Version 2 rules are up on the Tyneside Wargames site downloads page now! Please give them a try and let me know what you think :takecover:

Herkybird
03-29-2015, 15:34
The Version 2 rules are up on the Tyneside Wargames site downloads page now! Please give them a try and let me know what you think :takecover:

There is a modification I have had to add to PM2, as the fishtailing is STILL possible. My last game with new players proved that! http://herkybird-richardbradley.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/powder-monkey-2-our-first-try-out.html I have therefore done a version 2a which can be got from me by e-mail, or eventually on the files here, or at my club website, the link for which is above!

My apologies for the new version's appearance! - I am sure it will solve the problem this time! :question:

Herkybird
03-30-2015, 17:53
There is a modification I have had to add to PM2, as the fishtailing is STILL possible. My last game with new players proved that! http://herkybird-richardbradley.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/powder-monkey-2-our-first-try-out.html I have therefore done a version 2a which can be got from me by e-mail, or eventually on the files here, or at my club website, the link for which is above!

My apologies for the new version's appearance! - I am sure it will solve the problem this time! :question:

The new version is up on my club's website at http://tynesidewargames.co.uk/downloads.html The new rule in the text just asks you to not dice for a manoeuvre when out of shooting range of the nearest enemy, or if you are going downwind with an enemy ship in the rear arc. You just choose as sharp a turn as you need to get the ship facing the nearest enemy ship without going into the wind.
This works fine in the basic rules, in the Standard and Advanced, you have to work out the turn required based on the card already planned. Common sense really! :question:
In essence, just turn as a player would move his own ship, is the rule, and you won't go far wrong.
Its not important for the solo system to generate moves when not in combat distance!, so it doesnt IMHO spoil the 'feel' of the AI movement. I actually think it speeds up the 'boring' bits of the game, when you are manoeuvering to get back into shooting range and arc.

But what do I know? :salute:

spiessbuerger
03-31-2015, 06:18
downloaded the new Version and want to test it while easter. :happy:
Thanks for sharing

Littlebob
01-14-2016, 15:17
Hi all I have read through the solo rules and checked out the charts, looks really good, a lot of work to. I do have a few questions, I added a jpeg picture to help you all understand what I am asking. You will see from my questions below that I am very new to all of this and some of the questions may be a little silly.

1. First I am using the basic rules, battle masts and single ball shot, all ships are frigates.

2. As you can see in the picture I have that nice little yellow chart around my ship, is this correct?

3. if I am using the chart rite than the AI ship is mostly in zone H and a little in zone G so I should go with zone H I think.

4. When looking at the frigate chart or any other chart going across zone H there are 7 cards that can be used, I than role the dice to see what card the AI plays in row H?

5. This may be a really dumb question, Since a single D6 only has 6 numbers and the chart has 7 how will the 7th card ever get played?

Thanks to all you guys for your time, I can't wait to get the game it should be here in a few days and I just wanted to get a head start on understanding the rules. If you have any questions please ask.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/vaglio/Art/Solo%20rules%201.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/vaglio/media/Art/Solo%20rules%201.jpg.html)

Herkybird
01-14-2016, 16:30
Hi there!

You are right that the measurement of angle is from mainmast to mainmast between the shooting and target ship. You have the template on correctly, the brown handle is always to the ship model's rear.
You choose the letter from the template, then use the Black ( H in this case ) letter, as the enemy ship is downwind of the testing ship. Were it upwind, you would use the column with the Red H.
When throwing the D6 to determine which manoeuvre is chosen, you add 1 to the result if the ship is on fire or leaking, which you only use in the Advanced rules, and reduce the score by 1 if the ships are within 1/2 a rulers distance (IE-close enough for double shot in the Standard or Advanced rules)

I really hope this is helpful to you, and you really enjoy playing with the system! :thumbsup:

Bligh
01-14-2016, 16:38
I totally agree Richard.
Getting the ships back into killing distance is the important factor, what they do then is the interesting bit.
Rob.

Littlebob
01-14-2016, 16:42
Thanks Richard for your very quick, clear and easy to understand answer. I am shore this system will work great, I will be shore to let you know how it goes, thanks again.

Herkybird
01-14-2016, 17:32
Always glad to help from this side of the pond! Happy gaming! :happy::beer:

Littlebob
01-19-2016, 13:59
I just got my copy of SOG and had my first 1 on 1 battle, me in the 74 gun French ship Generuex and the AI in the 74 gun British ship HMS Defence, I lost that battle, I never even got to the end of the map before that nasty Brit got me, lol.

I will have to do more testing but it appears the system works really well if I am doing it rite.

I do have a question on my movement, should I be choosing 2 movement cards in solo mode or 1, I choose 2 in this first battle.

Herkybird
01-19-2016, 14:10
I just got my copy of SOG and had my first 1 on 1 battle, me in the 74 gun French ship Generuex and the AI in the 74 gun British ship HMS Defence, I lost that battle, I never even got to the end of the map before that nasty Brit got me, lol.

I will have to do more testing but it appears the system works really well if I am doing it rite.

I do have a question on my movement, should I be choosing 2 movement cards in solo mode or 1, I choose 2 in this first battle.

In the basic rules, you just choose 1 and play it straight away, in Standard/Advanced, you still choose 1 card in the planning phase, but you play it next turn, after the card you chose last planning phase.
The solo system will work best if only 1 card is chosen each turn. I hope this helps? :steer:

Littlebob
01-19-2016, 14:38
Thanks Richard for that quick response, I played 2 cards that may explain why the British ship was not even half way through the damage log and I was dead, I guess by playing 2 cards it would be difficult for me to win as I am locked into a move which may not make sense. Either way the system appears to work.

Union Jack
01-25-2016, 07:58
Still to play test ver 2 Richard. Hope to soon when I get time to play the two opening scenarios in the 2016 solo campaign.

Herkybird
01-25-2016, 12:36
Good luck, its definitely playable now with the bugs worked out of it! :minis:

pepemanu3
10-08-2016, 14:36
I don't understand. The template must be used in my ship or in the AI ship? The black letter is when the AI ship is upwind from my ship or not? Please, ii don't know how use the e-f manoeuvres. Sorry for my english.

Bligh
10-08-2016, 14:54
Firstly welcome aboard Soto. Do introduce yourself to your other shipmates by signing in on the Ahoy thread.
The solo template is placed on the AI ship. If the enemy ship is upwind of your solo run ship use the red letters.
Your English seems fine to me.
Rob.

pepemanu3
10-08-2016, 15:02
Then, the response by Herkybird to LitleBob is wrong, look at the picture by Littlebob and the response by Herkybird. My head is burning.

Herkybird
10-08-2016, 16:20
Then, the response by Herkybird to LitleBob is wrong, look at the picture by Littlebob and the response by Herkybird. My head is burning.

OOPS! My apologies, I gave the wrong answer to littlebob, as Rob correctly said, the template is placed on the solo run ship, and the RED letter manoeuvres are used if the ship it is fighting is even slightly upwind of the solo ship
Very sorry for the confusion, I have corrected the wrong response above. :embarass:

Bligh
10-08-2016, 16:25
I think there is a mix up there between the ship being commanded by the player and the FI. Sorry Rich. Just saw your answer which came in whilst I was re reading your rules to make sure.
Rob.

pepemanu3
10-08-2016, 16:41
Thank you for your help

Bligh
10-09-2016, 00:06
Your' welcome Soto.
If you have any other questions just ask.
There is usually someone here who has the answer.
Rob.