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View Full Version : SOG Game Mat versus... well, something else



GrouperKicker
04-09-2013, 07:00
Just wondering what the upside/downside to the SOG game mat will be. I'm of the opinion that a heavy blue colored sheet/tablecloth may work just as well, but wanted to see what the opinions of the forum members are. I'm guessing that some of the scenarios may call for a specific size playing field, but that is the only real reason that I can think of. Any thoughts/comments?

7eat51
04-09-2013, 08:32
I think the primary differentiation is the superimposed grid. I am not sure if that is a hexagonal pattern or something different. As the game releases, you will, undoubtedly, see folks sharing game mat files here that they have created. You will see folks pointing to other companies.

As for WoG mats, they are very durable, lie flat immediately out of the box, and have great visuals printed on them. I just bought two, and will pick up the third - coastal - and doing this while my wife is designing some mats so we can have certain terrains that are not offered by Ares. To be honest, I am a bit surprised I bought them. To be honest, now that I have them, I am glad I bought them.

As for SoG mats, at present I prefer blue or different shades of blue. The only land mass I wouldn't mind is one that has land on both sides of a river.

GrouperKicker
04-09-2013, 09:35
Thanks for the info! I'm trying to determine if I add a map or another ship to my KS bid/order. I can see where the superimposed grid may be of assistance. Decisions, Decisions...

How do people print the oversized 'homebrew' game maps? (Staples/OfficeMax?)

7eat51
04-09-2013, 09:43
Thanks for the info! I'm trying to determine if I add a map or another ship to my KS bid/order. I can see where the superimposed grid may be of assistance. Decisions, Decisions...

How do people print the oversized 'homebrew' game maps? (Staples/OfficeMax?)

If you are already receiving a free map, a second one would probably be good. At $20 and free shipping, it is not a bad deal. This would get you started and possibly keep you going for a long time.

The options are endless as far as printing. Folks print at office supply stores, sign stores, color printers, …

I can look up some options from the Aerodrome and place them here for you sometime today or tomorrow.

7eat51
04-09-2013, 13:50
After a little research, some folks have printed off larger vinyl maps at print shops and FedEx/Kinkos, but with some mixed reviews due to slickness. Others have printed off smaller map, some laminated, and pieced together larger surfaces.

Here are two sites folks have purchased from as well:
http://gameonterrainmats.com/aerial-view-terrain-mat
http://www.hotzmats.com/index.html

The Barrelman
04-09-2013, 14:10
You can see this thread Sails-of-Glory-Game-mat (http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?913-Sails-of-Glory-Game-mat) for more info already discussed.

The Royal Hajj
04-09-2013, 14:23
I started out playing Wings on some green upholstery fabric (nice thick stuff) and then used the two original mats they made. I liked these a lot, but with only two of them, it was to small of an area for the larger games I ran. Next I used some solid green 4x6 foot mouse pad. I then moved to a 4x6 custom printed vinyl mat. I used this for a while and it looks great, plays great and got a lot of attention. Since Ares release their new 4 mats, I've made the switch again to using those. So, as you can see, I've used a lot of different mats and I've come back to the official mats. Now that they are modular, I find them the best option there is. I know the Sails mats will be just as good.

Beowulf03809
04-09-2013, 14:30
I'm sure the quality will be great and love the concept of 'lay flat' (very hard to achieve in many materials). I'm just a little put off by the concept of a grid, even faint, as it would rob some from the visual in my opinion if it does not dramatically add to the playability.

In your hands-on experience with the game so far do you really think a grid would make things easier? In my experience if any sort of grid pattern is present on a play surface many players tend to work within it at a subconscious level. It also creates a situation where players can try to estimate their movements and shoot ranges more accurately than they could on a more generic 'blue' surface, no?

The Royal Hajj
04-09-2013, 15:05
While some players might "game" the grid to a slight advantage (though, I think enough playing experience would do the same thing), I can tell you from the two games I've been in, I really wish there would have been a grid on my playing surface!

So, Yes please to the grid!

Beowulf03809
04-09-2013, 15:11
What would the grid have aided with? Not trying to put you in the corner, but in less than a week I have to decide how to distribute my last funds...ships vs. game mat is really a hard choice so I appreciate your opinion and experience.

The Royal Hajj
04-09-2013, 15:22
It would have really helped lining up the wind to the ships. It's speed up play a little bit and cut down on the "is this ship at orange or green" questioning. To me, having an extra mat is going to be more welcome then another ship. And I'd have to double check the numbers, but I think the discount on the mat via KS is great then the discount on the ships.

7eat51
04-09-2013, 15:41
It would have really helped lining up the wind to the ships. It's speed up play a little bit and cut down on the "is this ship at orange or green" questioning. To me, having an extra mat is going to be more welcome then another ship. And I'd have to double check the numbers, but I think the discount on the mat via KS is great then the discount on the ships.

This is the info I have been looking for. Thanks.

Any idea how well these mats would work in conjunction with the coastal mat in WoG? Do you know if the grid would be too distracting?

You mentioned that Ares released 4 mats. Was that a typo or did I miss something?

The Royal Hajj
04-09-2013, 15:54
I honestly cant say at this time.

7eat51
04-09-2013, 16:01
Understood.

GrouperKicker
04-10-2013, 13:38
As I look at the prices of the WOG mats, I'm realizing that the KS is offering a good deal at $20 a mat. I'm in for one! (... or maybe 2!)

Jack Aubrey
04-10-2013, 13:41
As I look at the prices of the WOG mats, I'm realizing that the KS is offering a good deal at $20 a mat. I'm in for one! (... or maybe 2!)
4 !

The atlantic or the pacific are wide......:shootleft::shootright::minis:

7eat51
04-10-2013, 13:51
As I look at the prices of the WOG mats, I'm realizing that the KS is offering a good deal at $20 a mat. I'm in for one! (... or maybe 2!)

You'll probably need 2. I have 2 already, but will add a couple more.

Beowulf03809
04-10-2013, 14:30
4 !

The atlantic or the pacific are wide......:shootleft::shootright::minis:

Only to cowards trying to run. My ships will always sail for the more intimate communication with the enemy fleet. Half a mat for me!

:steer:

Diamondback
04-10-2013, 18:14
LOL, I'd prefer to stay WELL outside gun-range and dismast. "If you want a tow back to land, you'll cease fire and strike colors; otherwise, good luck drifting or paddling home..."

GrouperKicker
04-11-2013, 08:05
Am I reading the KS page correctly?? Will Lt. level backers get a free map if we reach 1000 backers on KS?

Gaz67
04-11-2013, 08:10
That's the way I read it Scott.

Captain and Crew Ability Deck to our Mates
Game Mat and a 2nd set of Smoke Clouds to our Lieutenants
Set of Counters, Terrain Pack #1, Terrain Pack #2 to our Captains

These rewards are in addition to the rewards already gained for the previous numbers of backers achieved.

Cmmdre
04-11-2013, 08:13
4 !

The atlantic or the pacific are wide......:shootleft::shootright::minis:

Good idea. A nasty chase around the horn. I like it. :steer:

Nightfall
04-12-2013, 07:39
Personally I've got a 4'x8' table in my den for playing on. I am thinking about having a mat to play on for the sake of when I'm not at home.

7eat51
04-12-2013, 07:43
Personally I've got a 4'x8' table in my den for playing on. I am thinking about having a mat to play on for the sake of when I'm not at home.

Depending on your pledge level, you'll probably have one coming. At $20, I would add a second. The WoG mats are of good quality, so I imagine these will be the same.

DeRuyter
04-12-2013, 09:10
Depending on your pledge level, you'll probably have one coming. At $20, I would add a second. The WoG mats are of good quality, so I imagine these will be the same.

Ditto on the WoG (new) mats. Heavy duty and no folds or crease lines! The downside of a light fabric can be seen in the Advanced Rules video! I also like the traveling idea. I have several types of cloth for mats, one is a canvas material that I hand printed light grid lines (dots) on for another game system. The downside is that it still gets fold lines unless I put it out early or iron it. However it is 8x6 so it coveres a large area. The felt mats from Hotz are also good.

I must disagree with the grid idea though. I think it would detract from the clean look of the mat. One great thing about SoG is the absence of hexes or grids for movement! Plus we are all getting those nice wood attitude rules as a reward anyway.

Grids, we don't need no stinkin Grids! :cheezy:

Beowulf03809
04-12-2013, 09:23
I must disagree with the grid idea though. I think it would detract from the clean look of the mat. One great thing about SoG is the absence of hexes or grids for movement! Plus we are all getting those nice wood attitude rules as a reward anyway.

Grids, we don't need no stinkin Grids! :cheezy:

This is still the question for me. If there was no grid I would be ordering one (or an extra one depending on KS finals) for sure. With the grid I'm just not thrilled. I MAY turn out as mentioned earlier that the grid helps in play without detracting but I just don't know myself. I wish we'd have a chance for seeing it in advance but doubt they'll have one ready before KS closes.

I'm probably going to hope to get one with KS and if I like it in person I'll order additional ones later. Sight-unseen though with gridlines present I think I'd rather put any extra funds to ships...

The Royal Hajj
04-12-2013, 12:50
I must disagree with the grid idea though. I think it would detract from the clean look of the mat. One great thing about SoG is the absence of hexes or grids for movement! Plus we are all getting those nice wood attitude rules as a reward anyway.

But without a grid system, there is no way to line up those nice wood AI with the wind in any kind of consistent manner. There whole function is to allow you to locate the "wind" at each ship. If there is nothing to align them to as they are moved from ship to ship, the whole point is kind of lost. If you are just going to eyeball lining up the AI, you might as well just eyeball the wind with out using one. Well, that's my thoughts at least after playing a couple of games.

daledavis67
04-12-2013, 12:57
But without a grid system, there is no way to line up those nice wood AI with the wind in any kind of consistent manner. There whole function is to allow you to locate the "wind" at each ship. If there is nothing to align them to as they are moved from ship to ship, the whole point is kind of lost. If you are just going to eyeball lining up the AI, you might as well just eyeball the wind with out using one. Well, that's my thoughts at least after playing a couple of games.

How do other Age of Sail games, without a grid, handle wind direction?

daledavis67
04-12-2013, 12:58
I would vote for no grid for the reason I listed in another thread:

I think Ares would be making a serious economic error if they make these mats incompatible with the WoG mats. They would be cutting out a large portion of potential sales.

I am sure I speak for more than a few WoG players when I say, even if I weren't buying into SoG, I would buy multiple mats just to expand my options for WoG.

GreenLaborMike
04-12-2013, 13:03
But without a grid system, there is no way to line up those nice wood AI with the wind in any kind of consistent manner. There whole function is to allow you to locate the "wind" at each ship. If there is nothing to align them to as they are moved from ship to ship, the whole point is kind of lost. If you are just going to eyeball lining up the AI, you might as well just eyeball the wind with out using one. Well, that's my thoughts at least after playing a couple of games.

This raises the point that I was a bit confused about. The moment you pick up the wind indicator, it seems impossible to ensure that it is placed down again at the precise same angle at some other point on the board, and I can foresee situations in which players begin to argue over the placement of the AI because even a degree or two might make a difference regarding ship movement, especially if the wind direction is right on the cusp between a ship's orange and red areas.

A grid system will help, to be sure, but I'm not sure it completely prevents these kinds of arguments from breaking out.

daledavis67
04-12-2013, 13:07
This raises the point that I was a bit confused about. The moment you pick up the wind indicator, it seems impossible to ensure that it is placed down again at the precise same angle at some other point on the board, and I can foresee situations in which players begin to argue over the placement of the AI because even a degree or two might make a difference regarding ship movement, especially if the wind direction is right on the cusp between a ship's orange and red areas.

A grid system will help, to be sure, but I'm not sure it completely prevents these kinds of arguments from breaking out.

They would also have no cross-over sales of the new mats with WoG players. They may get player of other naval games purchasing the mats though. Would be great for War at Sea, for example.

7eat51
04-12-2013, 13:11
This raises the point that I was a bit confused about. The moment you pick up the wind indicator, it seems impossible to ensure that it is placed down again at the precise same angle at some other point on the board, and I can foresee situations in which players begin to argue over the placement of the AI because even a degree or two might make a difference regarding ship movement, especially if the wind direction is right on the cusp between a ship's orange and red areas.

A grid system will help, to be sure, but I'm not sure it completely prevents these kinds of arguments from breaking out.

When we play WGF, there are always little shifts taking place as one picks up or sets down planes, especially when they share the same space. Folks don't always line up hash marks or arrows perfectly, and the same thing happens when lining up rulers at times. Fortunately, we have yet to encounter any form of argument. I think if SoG is anything like WoG, we'll find that, first and foremost, folks are gathering simply to have fun. Winning, as nice as it can be, is really unimportant compared to having a good time together. If someone joins our group and is highly competitive to the point about arguing over such things, I don't think that person will last too long. Such folks tend to self-select out of groups like ours.

7eat51
04-12-2013, 13:14
But without a grid system, there is no way to line up those nice wood AI with the wind in any kind of consistent manner. There whole function is to allow you to locate the "wind" at each ship. If there is nothing to align them to as they are moved from ship to ship, the whole point is kind of lost. If you are just going to eyeball lining up the AI, you might as well just eyeball the wind with out using one. Well, that's my thoughts at least after playing a couple of games.

Any idea of how bold or contrasting the grid will be?

Beowulf03809
04-12-2013, 13:25
@Keith - I guess that's the downside of not having a chance to see the game in action yet. From the videos it looked like there must be some 'external' indicator of the wind that we weren't necessarily seeing and that the player on screen was probably aligning the AI visually with that when placing it. If the AI itself is the only indicator on the table then I can see more of where you're coming from in relation to the grid.

The Barrelman
04-12-2013, 14:59
Nothing is ever perfect when playing mini games like these. I think the grid will be a good item to help keep a fair amount of accuracy when playing. It's about having fun and not spending half a game fighting about facing and position. The grid will help more then hinder.

The Royal Hajj
04-12-2013, 15:07
@Keith - I guess that's the downside of not having a chance to see the game in action yet. From the videos it looked like there must be some 'external' indicator of the wind that we weren't necessarily seeing and that the player on screen was probably aligning the AI visually with that when placing it. If the AI itself is the only indicator on the table then I can see more of where you're coming from in relation to the grid.

There is a “master” wind vain that sits on the edge of the table. With it you control the direction and intensity, along with any variation of those two. For my games, I made the AI since I have all the “source files” for them if you will. The preview sets that were sent out (made by Richard Bliss’ group) did not have any AI in them. As such, I don’t think he had any for his latest video, so he just put his home made main wind vain (the black arrow) out in the middle of the table so it was easy to access the winds attitude on both of the ships.

Andy Blozinski
04-12-2013, 19:02
This raises the point that I was a bit confused about. The moment you pick up the wind indicator, it seems impossible to ensure that it is placed down again at the precise same angle at some other point on the board, and I can foresee situations in which players begin to argue over the placement of the AI because even a degree or two might make a difference regarding ship movement, especially if the wind direction is right on the cusp between a ship's orange and red areas.

A grid system will help, to be sure, but I'm not sure it completely prevents these kinds of arguments from breaking out.
It's really quite easy and incredibly effective. The sailing rules I use is gridless, but I use a hex map to place the wind direction. You pick a flat or spine of the hex for direction and it's instantly easy to place wind direction everywhere without error. I have small arrows I place in various parts of the board as reminders.

DeRuyter
04-13-2013, 12:08
There is a “master” wind vain that sits on the edge of the table. With it you control the direction and intensity, along with any variation of those two. For my games, I made the AI since I have all the “source files” for them if you will. The preview sets that were sent out (made by Richard Bliss’ group) did not have any AI in them. As such, I don’t think he had any for his latest video, so he just put his home made main wind vain (the black arrow) out in the middle of the table so it was easy to access the winds attitude on both of the ships.

That's what I use, in fact I have a nice one from Litko with a ships wheel as a base. I think this in combination with the AI obviates the need for grid lines. IMO having a grid is a step back to using hexes, which the card movement system works nicely to avoid.

Bligh
04-15-2013, 02:38
Having read all these pros and cons, and not playing any of my games with Barrack room lawyer types,(well never more than once) I have to say that the sans grid option will make me more likely to abandon my blue cloth for an extra mat, simply because of the option of using it with my WoG mats.
Bligh.

RichardPF
04-15-2013, 04:23
There is a “master” wind vain that sits on the edge of the table. With it you control the direction and intensity, along with any variation of those two. For my games, I made the AI since I have all the “source files” for them if you will. The preview sets that were sent out (made by Richard Bliss’ group) did not have any AI in them. As such, I don’t think he had any for his latest video, so he just put his home made main wind vain (the black arrow) out in the middle of the table so it was easy to access the winds attitude on both of the ships.

It's always a bit hard to visualize how things will go beforehand, but my thought was to have basically 8 different possible settings for the wind based on aligning a side of the 8 sided AI with one or the other of the grid lines.

Then the wind position could be accurately transferred from the "master" setting to anywhere on the game board by aligning the AI with the gridline that was closest to the ship.

Advanced/house rules could then allow for wind shift possibilities at set intervals during the game where a low liklihood random event test (die roll, etc) could cause the wind to shift by one "side" of the AI.

Pehaps rolling a pair of dice each X turns. A roll of 2 or 12 with 2 dice would cause the wind to shift by one side of the AI base in the designated direction with rolls of 3-11 causing no shift.

The enhancement I could see to this would be to use a 16 sided AI rather than 8 sided so that the initial wind setting, and potential wind shifts, would be in 2 point rather than 4 point increments.

Jack Aubrey
04-15-2013, 04:56
Nothing is ever perfect when playing mini games like these. I think the grid will be a good item to help keep a fair amount of accuracy when playing. It's about having fun and not spending half a game fighting about facing and position. The grid will help more then hinder.

Good position, Ted, I agree. :clap:

Andy Blozinski
04-15-2013, 06:05
Well some of you guys may have fun declaring others to be rules lawyers for using a grid, but others enjoy a grid because it makes the game more fun and fast. I just ran a gridless Napoleonic miniatures game yesterday, but I run it on a hex map with wind markers aligned with the hexes. I got multiple open, unsolicited verbal comments as to how useful this was from players who had never played a Napoleonic minis game before.
We want to have fun. We want a light grid because it improves the game.

daledavis67
04-15-2013, 06:22
I can see myself getting 4 of the sea mats. Convention tables are pretty big and I want to do some big games. I can see a 20 player Merchant, Sailor, Soldier, Spy scenario in my SoG future:happy:

Cmmdre
04-15-2013, 06:43
Well some of you guys may have fun declaring others to be rules lawyers for using a grid, but others enjoy a grid because it makes the game more fun and fast. I just ran a gridless Napoleonic miniatures game yesterday, but I run it on a hex map with wind markers aligned with the hexes. I got multiple open, unsolicited verbal comments as to how useful this was from players who had never played a Napoleonic minis game before.
We want to have fun. We want a light grid because it improves the game.

Andy is right. Fun is the objective no matter how you get there. Some prefer compass and sextant some a GPS. The destination my friends is all the same.

Beowulf03809
04-15-2013, 07:07
There are two ways the grid can help. In the majority of my gaming, and what sounds like most of yours, we are playing friendly games. We are obviously interested in winning, but it's more about having a fun time with friends and a hobby we enjoy. "Casual" gaming like this does not mean you are not playing your best and trying to bring home your opponent's ships as prizes, but it does mean you worry less about someone trying to leverage every advantage. But it seems there's also a lot of interest in SOG at conventions and tournaments. Those are often more "aggressive" games. Everyone may still be fun and polite but when you traveled a couple hundred miles, spent money on hotels and entry fees, you are going to be playing at your peak and you don't want to get into an issue at the table because it looks like your opponent may be fudging the AI a bit just so they can win at the event (these Must Win folks do show up more at events than casual games I assure you). For those cases the difference between a Green and Orange, or Orange and Red move can be a big factor.

If a light grid helps speed casual play without effecting the visuals too much then it's a Good Thing. If it can pretty much eliminate AI arguments then that's a Good Thing. I am trying not to be too hung up on the visual of the grid. After all, our ships ARE on bases with cards and not 'ocean' bases as in other systems so we can't be too fussy. But at the same time, we know the graphics on the base are there for a very significant purpose. I'm not sure just how much the grid will prove useful in the scheme of things.

I KNOW that my most cost effective time to get an additional Mat would be now, in KS. And if I could see a pic of one and make my final decision I may just choose to do so. But I just can't bring myself to buy sight-unseen.

I am really happy that we supported KS to the point of a Mat going out to Lieutenants and above so I can get one, see how it looks in person and decide for myself how it adds to play or not. If it does then I'm sure I'll get a couple more to support larger games. If not, I'll look for something more generic.

Cmmdre
04-15-2013, 07:21
I can see myself getting 4 of the sea mats. Convention tables are pretty big and I want to do some big games. I can see a 20 player Merchant, Sailor, Soldier, Spy scenario in my SoG future:happy:

If there weren't 3,000 miles of land between us I'd join your club. Sounds like you have some good ideas for fun scenarios. 20 players sounds a little like controlled chaos though.

7eat51
04-15-2013, 07:22
At this point, I would buy 2 additional mats if I knew they are open water. I do not want four mats total that have land masses printed on them, especially with the amount of land terrain that is being received.

I think the grid is unquestionably good, and I trust Ares at this point to not make it too obtrusive - this is based on their other products I own.

Cmmdre
04-15-2013, 07:26
At this point, I would buy 2 additional mats if I knew they are open water. I do not want four mats total that have land masses printed on them, especially with the amount of land terrain that is being received.

I think the grid is unquestionably good, and I trust Ares at this point to not make it too obtrusive - this is based on their other products I own.

We're in the same boat. I ordered 2 extra mats sight unseen in hopes the initial run is open water allowing the gamers to use the terrain packs for land. Grid would be nice as I am not WoG player and the grid would be helpful.

daledavis67
04-15-2013, 07:33
That scenario is actually called Merchant, Pirate, Sailor, Spy and is an old Star fleet Battles scenario. If anyone would like a .pdf copy, shoot me a PM with your email and I will send it along. Very fun convention scenario.

The Royal Hajj
04-15-2013, 10:46
This initial mat IS going to be plain OPEN Water. Just want to make sure you guys realize this, not really yelling you at you.

The Royal Hajj
04-15-2013, 10:52
It's always a bit hard to visualize how things will go beforehand, but my thought was to have basically 8 different possible settings for the wind based on aligning a side of the 8 sided AI with one or the other of the grid lines.

Then the wind position could be accurately transferred from the "master" setting to anywhere on the game board by aligning the AI with the gridline that was closest to the ship.

Advanced/house rules could then allow for wind shift possibilities at set intervals during the game where a low liklihood random event test (die roll, etc) could cause the wind to shift by one "side" of the AI.

Pehaps rolling a pair of dice each X turns. A roll of 2 or 12 with 2 dice would cause the wind to shift by one side of the AI base in the designated direction with rolls of 3-11 causing no shift.

The enhancement I could see to this would be to use a 16 sided AI rather than 8 sided so that the initial wind setting, and potential wind shifts, would be in 2 point rather than 4 point increments.



From everything I’ve seen and read in the rules and other files Ares has sent me, this is all included in the rules as written. For changes to the wind direction and strength, you draw from a special set of random chits. Aligning the sides of the AI to the grid is how you keep things as accurate as possible.

As for the 16 sided AI, I’m to windward on you for that one :wink:

7eat51
04-15-2013, 11:09
This initial mat IS going to be plain OPEN Water. Just want to make sure you guys realize this, not really yelling you at you.

This is some yelling I would welcome. Thanks. I will order more.

Keith, based on your experience, 4 mats should suffice for larger scenarios, and 2 mats should suffice for up to 6 ships. Correct?

GrouperKicker
04-15-2013, 15:11
I know that this has been asked before, but here goes:
Are we certain that the SoG maps will have the 'faint grid'?

I've seen some 'best guesses', but have not heard anything that completely confirms that we will get the grids for sure.

daledavis67
04-15-2013, 15:44
This is a definitive yes. The Royal Hajj and Ares have answered on this. There WILL be faint grid lines to aid game play. We will not be able to see it before the KS ends as the artwork is not ready. Have faith they will be as nice as the WGF mats are. If you don't like yours I will give you $20 plus shipping and I will add it to my colection:drinks:

RichardPF
04-15-2013, 15:58
I know that this has been asked before, but here goes:
Are we certain that the SoG maps will have the 'faint grid'?

I've seen some 'best guesses', but have not heard anything that completely confirms that we will get the grids for sure.


This is a definitive yes. The Royal Hajj and Ares have answered on this. There WILL be faint grid lines to aid game play. We will not be able to see it before the KS ends as the artwork is not ready. Have faith they will be as nice as the WGF mats are. If you don't like yours I will give you $20 plus shipping and I will add it to my colection:drinks:

I think that any confusion that there might be on this is because in the absence of having the finished mats to use in pictures, the WINGS coastal mat has occasionally been used as a stand-in with the ship models.

That mat does not have a grid and does have some land masses.

Cmmdre
04-15-2013, 18:47
This initial mat IS going to be plain OPEN Water. Just want to make sure you guys realize this, not really yelling you at you.

My apologies. I must have missed that conversation. Thank you for clarifying.:sleep:

Andy Blozinski
04-15-2013, 18:56
This is some yelling I would welcome. Thanks. I will order more.

Keith, based on your experience, 4 mats should suffice for larger scenarios, and 2 mats should suffice for up to 6 ships. Correct?
The game I ran Sunday turned into a running battle with one ship left out detached and would have needed (4) of the 39"x27" mats. Usually the players cluster and smack each other silly, but this one got pretty spread out.

The Royal Hajj
04-15-2013, 19:21
Keith, based on your experience, 4 mats should suffice for larger scenarios, and 2 mats should suffice for up to 6 ships. Correct?

Sorry, missed this part. Yes, those amounts of mats should work fine for just about all non convention games.

tmon
04-15-2013, 20:12
Keith what do yo think the mats will cost after KS?

GreenLaborMike
04-15-2013, 22:54
Keith what do yo think the mats will cost after KS?

Unless there is something significantly different about these mats, and I haven't read anything to that effect, they will go for the same price as the mats for Wings of Glory. They're about $31, plus shipping. At a local game store, they might go for $40.

The Royal Hajj
04-16-2013, 05:47
Tom, GLM got ti right above. Look for them to be $40 full retail and $31 via my AA site.

The Barrelman
04-16-2013, 06:54
Tom, GLM got ti right above. Look for them to be $40 full retail and $31 via my AA site.

Why is the retail price $5 higher then the Wings mats? Is there something different from them in design or material? I would think (not correctly) that the printing is simpler then the Wings mats.

DeRuyter
04-16-2013, 08:52
Why is the retail price $5 higher then the Wings mats? Is there something different from them in design or material? I would think (not correctly) that the printing is simpler then the Wings mats.

I think that depends on where you buy it. I have seen the WoG mats vary from $29 to 39. I bought a set of three for $80 so $26 ea. (individually $29). I am getting one extra plus my LT level freebie and if they look great and work better than my current 8'x6' mat, I'll buy more.

Eric

The Royal Hajj
04-16-2013, 11:39
Sorry about that, they were initially reported at $39.99, but changed to a MSRP of $35.99. Too much stuff to keep track of sometimes!

7eat51
04-16-2013, 13:41
The game I ran Sunday turned into a running battle with one ship left out detached and would have needed (4) of the 39"x27" mats. Usually the players cluster and smack each other silly, but this one got pretty spread out.


Sorry, missed this part. Yes, those amounts of mats should work fine for just about all non convention games.

Thanks for the confirmation. I imagine if a chase occurs, mats can be rotated as necessary.

The Royal Hajj
04-16-2013, 14:50
Or just say night falls or a squaw conceals the enemy ship once they hit the edge of the map. There are lots of good narratives one could write up so it's not just "he left the gaming surface.

daledavis67
04-16-2013, 14:51
Or you can slap a WoG Coastal map on the end and say thats as far as you can run:happy:

Beowulf03809
04-17-2013, 13:43
Edge of map == Edge of world
grab the ship, tell him it was eaten by a giant dragon, and slip it into your pocket.
:rum:

7eat51
04-17-2013, 14:19
Or just say night falls or a squaw conceals the enemy ship once they hit the edge of the map. There are lots of good narratives one could write up so it's not just "he left the gaming surface.

I can understand in WoG about going off the edge of a map as being out of the game - planes did not have unlimited fuel supplies to pursue, etc. I think with SoG, if one ship wants to pursue, and if the wind is such as to make it possible, I will adopt some sort of rule to keep the game in play as long as it does not take away from other game play. I see another place for house rule discussion.

tmon
04-17-2013, 14:29
Well I don't think I will be buying any too soon considering that after I receive my KS I'll have 6 mats.

Coog
04-17-2013, 14:32
In single games it probably wouldn't matter if a ship left the board as victory conditions could address the matter. In a campaign it could definitely matter. A ship sunk or captured could have an effect on future battles.

csadn
04-17-2013, 14:51
or a squaw conceals the enemy ship

Do you often find Indian women sitting on your gaming table? >;)

7eat51
04-17-2013, 15:01
Do you often find Indian women sitting on your gaming table? >;)

That was inoffensively funny. :happy:

Coog
04-17-2013, 15:18
I'm just surprised it took 24 hours for Chris to jump on it!:happy:

Gunner
04-17-2013, 22:28
After a little research, some folks have printed off larger vinyl maps at print shops and FedEx/Kinkos, but with some mixed reviews due to slickness. Others have printed off smaller map, some laminated, and pieced together larger surfaces.

Here are two sites folks have purchased from as well:
http://gameonterrainmats.com/aerial-view-terrain-mat
http://www.hotzmats.com/index.html

Has anyone here bought mats from either of these companies?

The Royal Hajj
04-18-2013, 12:38
Gunners, the Game On mats is what we have been using at Origins these past couple of years. They provided them free of charge to us and even gave one to us to give to Steve (Guntruck over on the Aerodrome) as a gift that we all signed the back of. I also use them for my local game and local con events. Along with the official mats, the Game On mats are the best I've used.

Gunner
04-18-2013, 13:45
Thanks Keith, I'm leaning over the edge to get their 4'x8' to fit inside my pool table.

csadn
04-18-2013, 17:37
I'm just surprised it took 24 hours for Chris to jump on it!:happy:

I was waiting for someone else to take up the challenge.

Bunch of bleedin' wimps 'round here. >;)

Diamondback
04-18-2013, 18:05
Chris, I think Fearless Leader was deliberately baiting you. :P

Andy Blozinski
04-18-2013, 19:57
Gunners, the Game On mats is what we have been using at Origins these past couple of years. They provided them free of charge to us and even gave one to us to give to Steve (Guntruck over on the Aerodrome) as a gift that we all signed the back of. I also use them for my local game and local con events. Along with the official mats, the Game On mats are the best I've used.

Holy crap the pattern on their water mat looks cool. I hope the Sails of Glory mats look that cool.

7eat51
04-18-2013, 21:24
Gunners, the Game On mats is what we have been using at Origins these past couple of years. They provided them free of charge to us and even gave one to us to give to Steve (Guntruck over on the Aerodrome) as a gift that we all signed the back of. I also use them for my local game and local con events. Along with the official mats, the Game On mats are the best I've used.

That's a good endorsement.

Gunner
04-19-2013, 11:42
Gunners, the Game On mats is what we have been using at Origins these past couple of years. They provided them free of charge to us and even gave one to us to give to Steve (Guntruck over on the Aerodrome) as a gift that we all signed the back of. I also use them for my local game and local con events. Along with the official mats, the Game On mats are the best I've used.

Do you know if they're still in business or have a phone # for them. I tried to place an order on line a couple of times but it wouldn't take.

7eat51
04-19-2013, 11:46
Have you tried their email address? greenmanterrain@aol.com

7eat51
04-19-2013, 11:53
Here is another mat site:

http://terrainmat.com/

The Royal Hajj
04-19-2013, 12:12
Do you know if they're still in business or have a phone # for them. I tried to place an order on line a couple of times but it wouldn't take.

As far as I know they are. I'll try and remember to call Luis this afternoon when I get home.

Gunner
04-19-2013, 12:13
Have you tried their email address? greenmanterrain@aol.com

Yes I did. No response yet.

Gunner
04-19-2013, 12:40
Here is another mat site:

http://terrainmat.com/

Do you know anyone who has one of their mats?

Avi
04-19-2013, 12:45
RE Picking up and moving the "Wind Indicator" -
You just use a parallel rulers, you all have them to navigate don't you?

And if you do have the delight of playing with a "rules layer" you can use your authoritative voice to explain that:
A) local wind variations exist (aka Wind-shear).
B) This is a simulation and the actual ship speed does not change exactly on the line.
C) When the argument is about "taken aback" you can explain that the ships course is not exact and any helmsman worth his salt will steer it as close as possible to the wind.

D) WHY BOTHER ARGUING WITH RULE LAYERS just quote ''Henry VI,'' Part II, act IV, Scene II, Line 73... :pistole:

7eat51
04-19-2013, 12:58
Do you know anyone who has one of their mats?

No. I came across this when looking for a phone number to your earlier request.

Some nice stuff though.

7eat51
04-19-2013, 13:02
D) WHY BOTHER ARGUING WITH RULE LAYERS just quote ''Henry VI,'' Part II, act IV, Scene II, Line 73... :pistole:

Looks like we come from the same neighborhood.

csadn
04-19-2013, 15:14
Chris, I think Fearless Leader was deliberately baiting you. :P

Well, he needs to work on his technique -- he certainly hasn't mastered it.... >;)

pward
04-20-2013, 14:41
RE Picking up and moving the "Wind Indicator" -
You just use a parallel rulers, you all have them to navigate don't you?

And if you do have the delight of playing with a "rules layer" you can use your authoritative voice to explain that:
A) local wind variations exist (aka Wind-shear).
B) This is a simulation and the actual ship speed does not change exactly on the line.
C) When the argument is about "taken aback" you can explain that the ships course is not exact and any helmsman worth his salt will steer it as close as possible to the wind.

D) WHY BOTHER ARGUING WITH RULE LAYERS just quote ''Henry VI,'' Part II, act IV, Scene II, Line 73... :pistole:

I plan to use two. One will be the "standard" and will never be moved, the other will move about , following the ships. When the AI that moves is placed, both players will need to agree as to the placement. Once that is done, no arguing or changing until it needs to be moved again.