Update #71 wave 2, V&C and Spanish ships

[Gunner]

Go to
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...p-combat/posts
for pictures.

#71



Sails of Glory Wave 2 Replacements Shipping - Victory & Constitution in production




Posted by Ares Games


Sails of Glory Backers!

In the last few months, the project had to go through some rough waters.

The launch of Sails of Glory was a great success, and at GenCon we set a World Record for the largest game, with 53 players.

Our Starter Set and Ships are doing very well - we sold out of both Wave 1 and Wave 2 almost immediately, and we sold out twice our Starter Sets already (a new reprint is coming before the end of the year).

However, as you know, the problem with the fragility of Wave 2 ship masts forced us to stop production to find solutions, slowing down the entire production pipeline - we could not afford to have another wave of product out with the same problem.

As we told you in our previous Update in July we finally solved the issue, by replacing the style of packaging - and making sure that our ships can go through stormy waters and rough handling by couriers without damage. This kind of product, however, takes a LONG time to manufacture and ship. Finally a few days ago we received the reprint of Wave 2 ships at our warehouse and we are now in the process of sending replacements to all the customers who had broken ship masts in their Wave 2 ships.

HMS Victory and USS Constitution

HMS Victory pre-production sample HMS Victory pre-production sample

Where are the Victory and Constitution?

The problem with "broken masts" also affected the future ships in the production pipeline - our factory had to stop all developments of new ships until the problem was identified and solved. Finally, we could move forward and, last month, we finally got at the point that HMS Victory and USS Constitution are finally in production

These packs will be special, as promised - each pack will include two different versions of the ship log, with different armaments. On top of that, each ship is complemented by a specific deck of Captain cards and Crew Cards, featuring some of the most famous personalities who commanded them.

USS Constitution pre-production sample USS Constitution pre-production sample

Production of our Sails of Glory ships normally requires at least 2 months (Chinese holidays aside - our factory will be closed until next week), and another 4 to 6 weeks are necessary for shipping to the US warehouse. We will give you a further update as the production is completed, sometime in November - at that point, we will have a more reliable estimate for the delivery to you of these two long-awaited ships.

Spanish Ships are Coming

The Spanish 74-gun Argonauta The Spanish 74-gun Argonauta

The wishlist from our backers about how to develop Sails of Glory was (and is) a very long one, but it was clear that many of you wanted to see, as soon as possible, ships from the major naval power of the age missing from the initial releases - Spain.

We are taking a first step into fulfilling this wish. With the reprint of Wave 1 ship packs - available before the end of the year - we are adding one new version of each ship, and Spanish ships will be included! Our designers identified two Spanish vessels that could be represented using the Temeraire-class ship-of-the-line model and the Concorde-class frigate model, and we included them in the reprint.

Overall, the reprint of Wave 1 will include 4 French ships (the ones you already have), 2 new Spanish ships (Sirena/Ifigenia frigate, Argonauta/Heroe SotL), and 6 English ships, with the addition of a new frigate (Orpheus/Amphion) and a new 74-guns (Zealous/Superb) to the existing 4 ship packs.

Spanish ships of greater renown (Meregildos and Nepomucenos) are in our production pipeline as a part of Wave 3 - scheduled for release in 2015 - but in the meantime these new models will allow you to create an even greater variety of historical engagements.

Thanks for your patience. Expect to receive your replacement Wave 2 ships soon, and we ask you to be patient a little more for the arrival Victory and Constitution.


For any problem, drop us a message and if you are at the Essen Spiel, stop by and say hello at our booth Hall 3-E100!

[Diamondback]

Well, that's half the Wave 3 cat out of the bag... see why I said you guys would be excited? :)

[Arakus]

So the spain ships will have one 1st rate and one 3rd rate model, now there we only need a spain frigate.
Together with the santissima trinidad, that will be a special ship when released, and the spanish ships based on french models there is a good spain fleet composition.

[Gunner]

So the spain ships will have one 1st rate and one 3rd rate model, now there we only need a spain frigate.
Together with the santissima trinidad, that will be a special ship when released, and the spanish ships based on french models there is a good spain fleet composition.

There is a frigate
Overall, the reprint of Wave 1 will include 4 French ships (the ones you already have), 2 new Spanish ships (Sirena/Ifigenia frigate, Argonauta/Heroe SotL), and 6 English ships, with the addition of a new frigate (Orpheus/Amphion) and a new 74-guns (Zealous/Superb) to the existing 4 ship packs.

[Diamondback]

This is nothing official, but another Anchorage member who does some consulting for them and I have been looking into Spanish frigates trying to identify possible candidates--I'm not sure he wants to be identified, but since I've been doing a lot of spearheading in other areas on this one I'm content to just ask questions and follow my teammate's lead. :)

So at this point, we have the French and British reasonably established, the Spanish soon to get a foundation to build on, and a token contingent for the Stars-and-Stripes-wavers.

[Coog]

a token contingent for the Stars-and-Stripes-wavers.

With two of the four Wave 3 ships being Spanish SOLs, I'm holding out hope for at least one U.S. ship in the remaining two sculpts. And I mean a US SHIP...not some reflagged British or French ship from the American Revolution.

[Gunner]

A Russian/Turkish wave or two (I'm sure current British/French ships could be used plus a xebec) , and I will never complain again.
Xebecs would be a perfect fit with/against Swan class ships (great for fast and dirty games).

[Coog]

A Russian/Turkish wave or two (I'm sure current British/French ships could be used plus a xebec) , and I will never complain again.
Xebecs would be a perfect fit with/against Swan class ships (great for fast and dirty games).

We will probably see US ships before Russians and Turks. The only question is if there are none in Wave 3 to supplement Constitution, do I really want to wait until 2016 and more likely beyond for US ships?

[Coog]

For those not familiar with Meregildos and Nepomucenos:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish...nta_Ana_(1784)




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish...uan_Nepomuceno

[David Manley]

We will probably see US ships before Russians and Turks. The only question is if there are none in Wave 3 to supplement Constitution, do I really want to wait until 2016 and more likely beyond for US ships?

It is not a question of want.....

[Diamondback]

Believe me, there are some of us trying to keep the pressure on--the problem is ANY American sail wargaming is problematic due to the hodgepodge of one-offs. The closest thing to a "large class" in the early USN is the Peacock/Wasp/Frolic trio when coupled with their near-sisters Erie, Ontario and burned-before-launch Argus, the next runner-up being the three Humphreys 44's. Other than that, while there were SUPPOSED to be standard designs few were ever developed, of what were few copies could be gotten out in time and shipwrights generally just did as they damned well pleased and to Hell with everyone else.

[David Manley]

And this is always going to be an issue with the SGN business model. One-offs simply don't make commercial sense, Ares need to get the maximum bang for their buck from each sculpt. Hence looking at existing sculpts for one nation to see whether they will work for another nation's ships with a simple repaint (which frequently works well with frigates and gets progressively harder with larger ships where the style differences become more pronounced). This is, I think, one area where "traditional" 1/1200 ranges score over SGN since the same pressure isn't there - and they aren't saddled with the need to produce models in "waves"

[Coog]

It is not a question of want.....

Very true. I do find it interesting that Ares is producing ships for Trafalgar type battles when, as you have pointed out before (and I do find you are one of the most, if not the most knowledgeable person on the site when it comes to Age of Sail games) that the game system does not really work well with that type of battle outside of a well planned convention type setting with several players. I guess Victory could be used alone like a WWII German pocket battleship running amuck terrorizing French convoys.

[Diamondback]

Right, the problem is with some navies even getting to TWO-off is problematic--what *I* would do if I were them would be to license some enterprising sort to do all the work on Shapeways, get a cut of the sales figures in return for it being listed as "Official SGN Game Product."

[David Manley]

Very true. I do find it interesting that Ares is producing ships for Trafalgar type battles when, as you have pointed out before (and I do find you are one of the most, if not the most knowledgeable person on the site when it comes to Age of Sail games) that the game system does not really work well with that type of battle outside of a well planned convention type setting with several players. I guess Victory could be used alone like a WWII German pocket battleship running amuck terrorizing French convoys.

we used to run Star Trek games like that at conventions. One of the umpires would drive the three-enginned Enterprise D with a mission to run up the table to KO a space station and then escape back the way it came whilst the players drove hordes of old style D7s and other mundungus and tried to stop it. Or then there was the Borg Cube variant...

Fun to try once ot twice, and great as a game at a convention, but the novelty wore off quickly

[David Manley]

Right, the problem is with some navies even getting to TWO-off is problematic--what *I* would do if I were them would be to license some enterprising sort to do all the work on Shapeways, get a cut of the sales figures in return for it being listed as "Official SGN Game Product."

Or maybe an established company working in plastic.....

[Capn Duff]

Well I for one quite like this update, a Spanish SoL and a Frigate, doubled up gives me four ships to aid my French fleet. So a good bit of news.

[Arakus]

There is a frigate
Overall, the reprint of Wave 1 will include 4 French ships (the ones you already have), 2 new Spanish ships (Sirena/Ifigenia frigate, Argonauta/Heroe SotL), and 6 English ships, with the addition of a new frigate (Orpheus/Amphion) and a new 74-guns (Zealous/Superb) to the existing 4 ship packs.

I think you misunderstood what i meant.
There will be a spanish frigate but its a french ship design, what i meant is a spanish frigate on a spanish design. ( needs an own model )
They have enough own designs so it won't be good when the only one spanish frigate is a french model.

[Diamondback]

Or maybe an established company working in plastic.....

That too... I know you've mentioned hearing rumblings about another contender possibly entering the 1/1000 arena.

[Arakus]

That too... I know you've mentioned hearing rumblings about another contender possibly entering the 1/1000 arena.

I know Langton has no plans in making ships at 1/1000 scale.

[Coog]

And this is always going to be an issue with the SGN business model. One-offs simply don't make commercial sense, Ares need to get the maximum bang for their buck from each sculpt. Hence looking at existing sculpts for one nation to see whether they will work for another nation's ships with a simple repaint (which frequently works well with frigates and gets progressively harder with larger ships where the style differences become more pronounced). This is, I think, one area where "traditional" 1/1200 ranges score over SGN since the same pressure isn't there - and they aren't saddled with the need to produce models in "waves"

But I wonder, considering the market, would a sculpt of a single ship...lets say Constellation...sell more than a sculpt of a ship...lets say a Spanish frigate... no matter how many different times you repainted and renamed it. I remember the aircraft of Wings of War that I kept seeing on store shelves gathering dust...such as the Belgian Camel and Italian SPAD...that only eventually sold because of their value as repaints. I don't think SOG ships will be bought up like WWI aircraft for repainting and will remain on shelves gathering dust. I predict that Constitution will be SOG's biggest seller just because it is American. And I would bet that Thorn is the biggest seller among the Swan Class models just because it has a US flag on it. The US would seem to be SOG's largest market. I wonder how many people that have bought SOG are knowledgeable on the Age of Sail and will buy according to historical knowledge and how many just like the game and will buy according what catches their fancy...like a ship with a US flag?

[Comte de Brueys]

Thank you for the information, Ed.

[David Manley]

You might be right about best sellers having US flags for no other reason than that, but its the saleability of a sculpt that I think determines its success in the eyes of Ares. Had Thorn been a sculpt of its own its likely that punters would buy one, maybe two. the scope for sales of the Swan is three, maybe 6 so Ares return on their investment is far greater and hence the bigger classes are those that we are likely to see first.

Of course a few more US ships can be had by rebadging existing sculpts, so that may well be the quickest route to more American ships after Constitution

[David Manley]

I know Langton has no plans in making ships at 1/1000 scale.

Indeed Rod doesn't

[Gunner]

Ares update:

There are 4 new ship packs in the reprint of Wave 1; SGN101C, 102C, 103C, 104C.
To be clear - THEY USE THE SAME MODEL as the first 4 ships (Temeraire, Concorde, Bellona, Amazon class) but they feature NEW color schemes, flags, and ship logs.
There are two new packs with Spanish colors (SGN101C and SGN102C) and two packs with British colors (SGN103C and SGN104C).
The other 8 packs ("A" and "B" codes) are the same packs you already have.

[Gunner]

Thank you for the information, Ed.

Zapraszamy
(But it seems like every time a Pole says that, German troops march in)

[Arakus]

The US would seem to be SOG's largest market.

Single country market? Maybe.
Total largest market? Don't think so.

If it will be the largest market for a single country then because of its size/people compared to other countrys like great britain, france, germany etc.
When we will compare the usa with entire europe i think that in europe will be more sold ships, but this will be a secret ares don't give us any info about.
And i think we agree that SGN won't sell well in china or russia

[Coog]

Ares may have been better off doing what I've seen at least a couple of other companies do in the past...make generic models. A generic 38, a generic 74, and so on. Then all they would have to do is paint them up, flag them, and name them for whatever nationality they needed. Probably would have made more people happy and they wouldn't have known the difference.

[Arakus]

Zapraszamy
(But it seems like every time a Pole says that, German troops march in)

Poland should never again be afraid of this, our army is only useful on paper anymore.
Atm from some hundred helicopers only about 20-40 are ready at all, the ships we send to help at african shores against pirates have not one functional helicoper on board....
Our fighter planes are muss less durable now as there where some serious errors founded, another cashhole etc, etc.....

Our minister for defence is a woman who was family minister sometime before.
Her first preference when she get this job was to etablish more childcare places to the army....
The newest idea is to hire more personal for gender equality, we soon have more people working in gender equality as we have commando frogmen or similar spacial forces...
Maybe we can convince the taliban in afghanistan with them?

Sorry, maybe its to political for this forum post.

[Nightmoss]

Ares update:

There are 4 new ship packs in the reprint of Wave 1; SGN101C, 102C, 103C, 104C.
To be clear - THEY USE THE SAME MODEL as the first 4 ships (Temeraire, Concorde, Bellona, Amazon class) but they feature NEW color schemes, flags, and ship logs.
There are two new packs with Spanish colors (SGN101C and SGN102C) and two packs with British colors (SGN103C and SGN104C).
The other 8 packs ("A" and "B" codes) are the same packs you already have.

So, that's 8 ships to purchase from Wave 1 if you want to have enough of the "new" ships to cover both sides of the ship cards. I was actually concerned that the reprint might entail a higher cost than this.

[7eat51]

Ares may have been better off doing what I've seen at least a couple of other companies do in the past...make generic models. A generic 38, a generic 74, and so on. Then all they would have to do is paint them up, flag them, and name them for whatever nationality they needed. Probably would have made more people happy and they wouldn't have known the difference.

I imagine you're correct. None of the friends I have taught WoG or SoG to know anything about historical paint schemes; most don't know much about the technology or history of the periods either. They enjoy the game simply as a game, and one friend has been buying planes and ships to teach others.

This past weekend, I regret that we did not have Ares planes and duel packs for sale. I think many families would have walked away with them, though I doubt but a few knew anything about WWI aviation. Everyone who tried the game really enjoyed it, and the fact that we had them flying within a minute was a real selling point.

As for which area has the largest sales, I wonder if it makes a difference separating war-gamers from casual gamers.

[Diamondback]

Sorry, maybe its to political for this forum post.

Maybe it is... but sadly, it seems to be the way of things in the "civilized countries," so many Defense organizations run by people who would rather focus on checking off boxes on a piece of paper than PROTECTING their nation's people.

Though one hopes that this time when the Red Army heads West, we'll see the Heer and the Polish Army on the same side... heard about Poland's new tanks they're developing, BTW?
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/is-...1554395391/all
[Will Smith voice]"I have GOT to get me one of THESE!"

[David Manley]

Maybe it is... b

Yes, any chance you could continue this offline?

[Gunner]

Thanks for the link DB

[Naharaht]

Ares update:

There are 4 new ship packs in the reprint of Wave 1; SGN101C, 102C, 103C, 104C.
To be clear - THEY USE THE SAME MODEL as the first 4 ships (Temeraire, Concorde, Bellona, Amazon class) but they feature NEW color schemes, flags, and ship logs.
There are two new packs with Spanish colors (SGN101C and SGN102C) and two packs with British colors (SGN103C and SGN104C).
The other 8 packs ("A" and "B" codes) are the same packs you already have.

Will the other 8 ships have the same names as before or have some been given new names. please?

[Diamondback]

A&B are staying the same on all four sculpts. This is a "Wave 1-A-Plus", not a "1-B" like the Ares reissues of WGF Series 1, Series 2 and Bombers.

Straight-up "Wave 1 As Originally Printed, but with the addition of four new packs".

[Gunner]

Has anyone had a problem with their wave2 replacements?

[stuh42asl]

It is too bad that Ares could have not made say 15 ships for the French , English, and Spanish as the first wave, then the next waves could have been the Americans, Russians, Turks. The final waves could be additions made up of famous vessels, additional ships for each nation.
-
Shane

[Gunner]

It is too bad that Ares could have not made say 15 ships for the French , English, and Spanish as the first wave, then the next waves could have been the Americans, Russians, Turks. The final waves could be additions made up of famous vessels, additional ships for each nation.
-
Shane

For sure Shane. Russians, Turks & Swedes (in that order). Never ending Scenarios.