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Thread: Neptune Class 2nd Rates for Sails of Glory

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    Default Dreadnought Class 2nd Rates for Sails of Glory

    As I dont expect to see these ships released for a considerable time I have looked into using some models already available.
    Of course there will be, already have been on the forum, reservations as to what is correct or as correct as we can get and how correct we should be.

    So first the Dreadnought class consisted of three ships, all were 98 gun second rate and all, surprise surprise, all fought at Trafalgar, which is what I am aiming at.

    The three ships were
    HMS Neptune
    HMS Dreadnought
    HMS Temeraire

    I intend to have a discussion here in two parts

    A modelling part, which sculpts I use and why
    A stats part what deck and the ships log and size of sculpts.

    If anyone has any point here please join in, if I am talking a complete load of tosh, tell me but please slso tell me why its tosh.
    Probably will not stop me fielding the models but it will teach me more. At least that is the theory.
    Anyway lets get on with it and see if anyone agrees and likes what I have come up with.
    Last edited by Capn Duff; 04-01-2017 at 07:38.

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    I will start of here with the models I have used and why, looking physically at the them.
    Stats will discussed and sizes in the stats section.

    First I looked up any pictures of the three ships.
    I found a picture of HMS Dreadnought and HMS Neptune on wiki showing the pattern and colouring.

    Looking at the Ares models the ones that "looked" the parts were SGN 108 the Royal Soverign model.
    I have one extra of these and so HMS Dreadnought began to take shape. The RS is a 100 gun model, Dreadnought is 98 gun, so I need to get rid of a pair of gunports, or will anybody else notice hmmmm.
    So very easy starter, painted the yards black, as usual, then rigged the masts as per my usual method, the Bristle. Yes I will post a how to at some point, yes I have said this before and people still waiting, promise it will come. Then add ratlines, I use ratlines from Langton and another howto is also coming.

    The second of the ships I wanted was HMS Temeraire, a particular favourite. So here I chose the HMS Queen Charlotte model. The picture I have of the Temeraire was the famous Turner painting.
    I know that the picture show Temeraire going to be broken up so the hull scheme may not be as she was at Trafalgar but I liked it. So this time I painted the whole of the top line of gunports the planking between the ports and gunwales black. Then yards black and rigged and ratlined.

    So almost ready I have HMS Temeraire and HMS Dreadnought to join my British fleet.
    Ill add pics of the models as doon as
    I get the last set of ratlines this weekend.

    Not sure of copyright so to see the scheme for HMS Temeraire google HMS Temeraire by Geoff Hunt.
    For HMS Dreadnought http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=374062
    Last edited by Capn Duff; 04-01-2017 at 05:49.

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    Ship tech details



    Gun deck Keel. Depth. Men
    Dreadnought 185' (62m) 152' (31m) 51' (17m) 738
    Neptune 185' (62m) 152' (31m) 51' (17m) 738
    Temeraire. 185' (62m) 152' (31m) 51' (17m) 738

    Prince. 194'. (65m) 163' (54m) 49'. (16m) 750 (738)

    Queen Charlotte. 190'. (63m) 156'. (32m) 52'. (18m) 850

    Royal Sovereign. 186'. (62m) 152'. (31m) 51'.(17m) 850

    Queen Charlotte model. Gundeck 50mm. Width 16mm

    Royal Sovereign model. Gundeck 50mm Width 15mm

    LD. MD. UP. QD. FC

    Dreadnought. 28x32p. 30x18p. 30x12p 8x12p. 2x12p
    Neptune. 28x32p. 30x18p. 30x12p 8x12p. 2x12p
    Temeraire. 28x32p. 30x18p. 30x12p 8x12p. 2x12p

    Prince. 28x32p. 30x18p. 30x12p 8x12p. 2x12p

    Queen Charlotte. 30x32p. 28x24p. 30x12p 10x12p. 2x12p
    Royal Sovereign. 28x32p. 28x24p. 30x12p 10x12p. 4x12p

    Queen Charlotte model mat

    475 475 465 364 354 354 353 243 132 122 121

    Crew
    4 4 4 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 1
    Actions
    4 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 2 1 1

    Royal Sovereign model mat

    475 475 465 364 364 354 354 243 232 122 121

    Crew
    4 4 4 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 1
    Actions
    4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 2 1 1

    Impetuex model mat crew 700 for comparison

    475 474 464 354 353 243 232 122 121

    Crew
    4 4 3 3 3 2 2 2 1 1
    Actions
    4 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 2 1
    Last edited by Capn Duff; 04-01-2017 at 04:40.

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    Chris, raw gun-count isn't necessarily everything. Saying "100-gunner"... well, a ship armed with a hundred twelve-pounders is still a hundred-gunner but you wouldn't want to take her out and trade broadsides with Victory.

    Here's a class draught from Greenwich:

    On the LD we see 7 ports, then a ladder, then 7 more. Going up to the MD, we find 7 aft and 8 fore. UD is reverse of MD - totals of 28, 30 and 30 guns respectively, for a total of 88; most First Rates carried 30-32 per deck, the real difference being in the QD and FC. Again we see the distinctive "forward-pointing chevron" pattern in the gun decks.

    I'll pitch in more data as I see where you're going and where the holes you might find helpful to have me fill emerge--statistically, the 1797 Neptunes were so big and so close to a First Rate that you might as well just treat them as one, maybe watered down a negligible bit on Crew, Musketry and Guns..

    If it helps, I have the Mother Of All RN First Rate Drawing Threads at http://www.sailsofglory.org/showthre...sh-First-Rates that might be a useful reference, too.
    --Diamondback
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    Cheers DB any info and pointers gratefully received

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    Take my input with a grain of salt, though... I'm sure we have some who are convinced I've sold out and couldn't be trusted if I said the sky was blue. :p (Which *would* be a lie, here in Seattle it's usually a rainy gray similar to what's frequently seen around London.)
    --Diamondback
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Take my input with a grain of salt, though... I'm sure we have some who are convinced I've sold out and couldn't be trusted if I said the sky was blue....
    ???? What brought that on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    ???? What brought that on?
    Sorry, failed the Skill Check roll for restraining my inner cynic. :( I think I understand the roots of the "Mini-gildos" matter and having seen better-angle photos I'm not in Torches-and-Pitchforks mode like the Cult of Tripe (I'm in for a set to take my own measurements, gather my own evidence and see where it leads me), and that inner cynic is quietly placing bets with myself how long it'll take before somebody tries to throw the "Insufficient Revolutionary Zeal" card.
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    You been reading my mind again DB?

    My Revolutionary zeal died years ago, and it had been so fervent that nobody noticed.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    LOL, Rob... even if you do believe in telepathy it's conventionally thought to require a functional frontal lobe and in particular prefrontal cortex, and guess what as an autistic I *don't have*? :p
    --Diamondback
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    If you are confident in the numbers db then that's good enough for me. They look short, if they are meant to then cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjl View Post
    If you are confident in the numbers db then that's good enough for me. They look short, if they are meant to then cool.
    Hugh, I wouldn't say "totally confident"--I think I understand how Ares got the numbers they did on Bahama (yes a glitch, not as bad as everyone thinks--Ares SHOULD have just said "Spanish 74" like they did "British First Rate" on 108), and why everybody else is getting so confused... but not having my own set in-hand though it's on the way I'm waiting until they arrive and taking my own measurements rather than rushing to pillory Ares and everyone associated with them. I will follow the data to its conclusion for better or worse, and I will share my methodology so those not in Don't-Confuse-Me-With-Facts-My-Mind-Is-Made-Up can check my analysis for yourselves. In fact, I WELCOME second trials on my math, just to make sure my Took Three Tries To Beat Pre-Calc Through My Thick Skull brain is crunching the numbers right.
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    Good enough for me DB. I await your deliberations with some relief, that all may yet be proved to be minimal errors.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Seriously, when it comes to math...
    --Stats: 3 tries.
    --Pre-Calc: 3 tries.
    --Calculus: 2 tries.
    --Microecon: 2 tries.
    Surprisingly one try each: 210-220-230 Accounting cycle, Macroecon.

    Approaching two years' enrolled classes just to get three quarters' course-credit. Think about it... I have my strengths, but the fancy "Use Letters Where There Should Be Numbers" crap ain't among 'em. LOL

    Reworking SGN108, I would remove both the fore and aft LD ports. The MD entry port should be converted to a gunport, and it should extend one gun each direction past the ends of the LD. The UD should start even with the LD at the bow, and end one gun past the end of the MD. Then you just have to worry about the QD and FC... and the bulwarks may need some tweaking.
    EDIT: Er, strike that. Remove last gun on LD and last on QD. Oops, got 108 and 201 mixed up again... though I think I see why Ares did Victory the way they did from the photo at Threedecks.
    Last edited by Diamondback; 03-02-2017 at 05:34.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post

    Approaching two years' enrolled classes just to get three quarters' course-credit. Think about it... I have my strengths, but the fancy "Use Letters Where There Should Be Numbers" crap ain't among 'em. LOL
    I resemble that remark.
    Greek letters ain't any better either.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Sorry, failed the Skill Check roll for restraining my inner cynic. :( I think I understand the roots of the "Mini-gildos" matter and having seen better-angle photos I'm not in Torches-and-Pitchforks mode like the Cult of Tripe (I'm in for a set to take my own measurements, gather my own evidence and see where it leads me), and that inner cynic is quietly placing bets with myself how long it'll take before somebody tries to throw the "Insufficient Revolutionary Zeal" card.


    ;)

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    Very funny Chris!
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Three days... you're SLOWER than expected, French, but I knew you'd be the leading edge of the Angry Mob. :p
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    Also, I think I understand 201's back-slanted ports: From the view of Victory at ThreeDecks the ports do look roughly like that, it's hard to tell if that first MD port is broadside, chaser or hawsehole. If it's for hawsers/lines/not-guns I owe everybody an apology.
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    Does this help?


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    You're agreeing with the "something other than gunport" assessment of the port with red doors, then?

    In this image at ThreeDecks

    you can see other than the port in question a perfect match to the "backslash" of SGN201--this suggests to me that sometime between final design approval and Trafalgar, the entire LD battery was shifted forward one port with the previous rearmost planked-over and a new foremost cut... and also suggests had material and manpower-reduction technology been available, or topweight reduced accordingly, unused room for another pair of guns on the LD.

    In which case, if I'm reading you right, my criticism of SGN201's gun decks for Victory is withdrawn and my sole remaining concern is the shape and rake of the stern gallery.
    --Diamondback
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    Here are the best shots I could get of these.


    Name:  Victory one..jpg
Views: 700
Size:  271.9 KB



    Name:  Victory two..jpg
Views: 779
Size:  183.5 KB

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  23. #23
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    As she varied in number of guns a was a second rate for a while I wouldn't be surprised if gunports have been changed.

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    I had something like seven different loadouts in the catalog before this game even launched, Jonas :) - my suspicion is that she was found heavier in the stern than her skippers liked and the LD rearrangement was to compensate, much like a reversed version of how John Paul Jones wanted to trim Bonhomme Richard heavier in the stern so concentrated all his heaviest guns aft. (Aside: This means BHR should have an Aft Broadside noticeably heavier than Fore, perhaps even equal to Center or very close to it.)

    Trivially, Victory today seems to have had the original aftmost LD port reinstated, just forward of the gallery. (The 1803 rebuild shows the same slant to the rearmost gunports as the foremost.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Three days... you're SLOWER than expected, French, but I knew you'd be the leading edge of the Angry Mob. :p
    I only show up here once per week -- it's an indicator of just how little faith I have that _SoG_ is going anywhere except Into The Necrogamicon (the Book Of Dead Games).

  26. #26
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    Over my dead body Chris!
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    It's a pity that the decal on HMS Victory isn't as good as the decals on the latest wave of ships. The stern galleries on the Portland and Artésien are very detailed and beautiful. I especially like the railing posts finally showing.

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    Apologies for the delay in continuing this thread, real life threw a couple of googlies.
    This weekend though no shows so will continue, I have completed HMS Temeraire and HMS Dreadnought just needs rigging so will postt pics and explain my reasoning for the stats
    I have used, then we can debate if they look ok

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    Don't worry about that Chris.
    When you get the stats for Temeraire and co sorted out I will knock out some cards for the ship mats and ship cards.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    So looking at the stats I have used, all using Rif Winfields book on the Royal Navy as a reference

    The best fit model for the Dreadnought class is the Royal Sov model and for the Prince the Queen Charlotte model
    HMS Prince was a revised London class and a known bad sailor, she didnt arrive at the action at Trafalgar until the action was almost over although she apparently did avlot to save other badly damaged ships and lots of sailors. More of her in a different thread.

    So for the Dreadnought, Neptune and Temeraire looks like we need 3 Royal Soverign models

    Looking at the guns first

    The Royal Sov. 28x32p. 28x24p. 30x12p 10x12p. 4x12p
    Dreadnoughts 28x32p. 30x18p. 30x12p 8x12p. 2x12p

    Looking at the mat 475 475 465 364 364 354 354 243 232 122 121

    I propose 475 465 364 364 354 354 243 232 122 121

    As can be seen the main difference between the ships is the middle gun deck, Dreadnoughts having 18p and the Sov 24p
    So my thoughts were drop the second large broadside and have ten options, 1 less than the 1st rates and 1 more than the 3rd, see the Impeteux comparrison, yes its a french temeraire but the stats help.

    Next crew

    1st rate 850
    3rd rate 700
    2nd rate 738

    Royal Sov 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 1
    Impeteux 4 4 3 3 3 2 2 2 1 1

    Dreadnoughts have more than Imp and less than Sov approx 1/3 to 2/3 so propose for the Dreadnoughts

    4 4 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 1 1

    Actions

    R Sov. 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 2 1 1
    Imp 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 2 1

    Propose Dreadnoughts. 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 2 1 1
    Last edited by Capn Duff; 04-02-2017 at 04:29.

  31. #31
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    Thanks for that info Chris.
    All we need to produce our second raters then.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    I welcome any comments on the stats , good and if they look tosh, I hope to get a consensus before making the ship mats.
    I have got two Soverign' and a Charlotte which was going to be my Temeraire but think Ill change it and keep the Charlotte for the Prince

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    FWIW they look OK to me :)

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    Cheers Dave, for me thats worth quite a bit with your experience :)

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    Bearing in mind that game stats are not my strong point,I see no reason to object to these stats for testing as a candidate for "interim standard" on these ships.
    --Diamondback
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capn Duff View Post
    So looking at the stats I have used, all using Rif Winfields book on the Royal Navy as a reference

    .... Looking at the guns first

    The Royal Sov. 28x32p. 28x24p. 30x12p 10x12p. 4x12p
    Dreadnoughts 28x32p. 30x18p. 30x12p 8x12p. 2x12p

    .... As can be seen the main difference between the ships is the middle gun deck, Dreadnoughts having 18p and the Sov 24p
    Usually I follow Winfield, but not in this case. Brian Lavery, The Ship of the Line, Vol I, p. 183, gives the Dreadnoughts Gun Deck 28x32p. Middle Deck 30x18p. Upper Deck 30x18p. Quarter Deck 8x12p. Fore Castle 2x12p. (the difference being the 18p instead of 12p. on the Upper Deck). On p. 126 Lavery writes: "A heavier upper deck armament was fitted to other ships besides 74s. ... In 1788 the Dreadnought, 98, was to carry 18-pounders on both the upper and middle decks. ... By 1793 there were three different types of Second Rate on the list - those with 18-pounders on the upper deck, those with 12-pounders, and a solitary 90 (the Namur of 1756)..." Note also the cryptic line in Winfield on p. 24: "All three [Dreadnought class] ships fought at Trafalgar, and then were reclassed as 12pdr class Second Rates in 1808..." Why reclass them if they carried 12-pounders from the beginning?

    The following time line makes sense (dates from Lavery). Four Dreadnought class ships were planned for. Three were laid down in 1788-1790. Neptune was launched in 1797, Temeraire in 1798 and Dreadnought in 1801. They were armed as planned with 18-pounders on the upper deck. Then it was discovered that the upper deck was rather crowded, and the fourth, the Ocean, was lengthened by 11 feet. The Ocean was launched on October 24, 1805, too late for Trafalgar. In 1808 the three smaller ships had their 18-pounder upper deck guns replaced by 12-pounders.

    So what is the difference?

    The Royal Sov. 28x32p. 28x24p. 30x12p. 10x12p. 4x12p gives a broadside weight of 1048p.
    Dreadnoughts revised: 28x32p. 30x18p. 30x18p. 8x12p. 2x12p also a broadside weight of 1048p.

    The Royal Sov. carried an additional 6x18p carronades at Trafalgar, while the Dreadnoughts carried none. That is another 54 pounds.

    Still, good reasoning by Captn. Duff, and correct for 98's, like the Prince, using the standard armament.
    Last edited by Niek_vD; 04-02-2017 at 04:48. Reason: Used a Dutch word.

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    So maybe just use unmodified First Rate stats for the 18# versions? I saw the 18# UD in one of Winfield's books and was sure it was a typo, because it didn't fit any other 2nd Rates and figured if it was a truly unusual feature it would be commented on.. (Even derated Victory and her 1810 Boyne sisters, which were true First Rate hulls!)

    So that means, Dreads are possibly three sides for an SGN108 reprint, unaltered. (Then again, the 24pdr was the sweet-spot for penetration IIRC... unless you had a 68pdr carronade with a good gunner at Bad Breath Range and a keg o' musket balls--yep, that's literally what got rammed down the muzzle for Nelson's opening shot!--following a ball out the end of the pipe.)
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    Ok thanks for the additional broadside information, so looks like can keep the stats from the RS for the gunnery.
    How about the stats for the crew and actions, they were considerably less men on the Dreadnoughts than the RS.
    Note I ammended the crew stats this morning giving an extra 2 box.

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    Think the RS-with-weaker-crew as you just updated is ready to proceed for Trials Phase. :) With testing, we can find out if it needs to be revised up or down, or stay as is.
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    Next weekend
    Ill try a simple Temeraire against an Ocean and a French Temeraire to see how she fares

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    This is what I have:

    Royal Sovereign 2175 ton, 826 men
    Temeraire 2121 ton, 755 men
    Neptune 2119 ton, 741 men
    Dreadnought 2123 ton, 725 men

    The other British 3-deckers:
    Victory 2163 ton, 823 men, 1080p + 68p carronade broadside
    Britannia 2091 ton, 788 men, 964p +192p carronade broadside
    Prince 2088 ton, 735 men, 958p broadside

    Main source is threedecks.org.

    Niek

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    Niek, on gunnery those are just one each of several different loadouts those ships carried--to do Victory alone right we'd need to make like seven different logs just for that one ship through her various rearmings.

    By way of creds, it should be noted that I'm one of the research team who helps Ares make this game. :) The two relevant BWAS volumes as digital copies are on this laptop's hard drive and the French counterpart volume hardcopy is about a foot from my right elbow--when ThreeDecks and Winfield conflict I go with Winfield unless there's good reason otherwise, since he has inherited the archives of noted naval historian David Lyon. (In fact, Winfield was brought in to finish Lyon's last book, The Sail & Steam Navy List--which was actually the forerunner to the BWAS project--when Lyon died unexpectedly.)

    Chris, I might suggest based on that use the Crew/Action line of Britannia as a baseline, maybe faster decay at either beginning or end.
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    I used Winfields WaS book as my reference for the stats and crews, although I realise the crew stats are most likely establishment figures

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capn Duff View Post
    I used Winfields WaS book as my reference for the stats and crews, although I realise the crew stats are most likely establishment figures
    Sometimes those are all we have to go by--even when designing the official releases, sometimes we have to gather all the data we can about ships similar to our target, compare them and make a best guess from that to try to cover a hole in the historical record. We do our best to make them the most educated guesses we can, but sometimes our best guess is really all we can do when it's either that or no ship, like how we got HMS Jason as a backside for Protee after I scuttled nonexistent "HMS Actionnaire."

    Also, when Tonnant comes out next year sometime, as an 80-gunner she'll help narrow things down a little--don't be afraid to publish a preliminary and then revise, since these are unofficial numbers for unofficial logs.
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    Diamondback, you may note that I am on the playtest list, and a founding member (my only medal) of this forum. I dropped out because my main interest is Ships of the Line, and in my opinion that is the weakest part of Sails of Glory.

    On books, I have hardcopies of the three books you mention, plus the 17th century Winfield, and the other Seaforth Warships in the Age of Sail books on the Russian and Dutch navies. I also have Mark Adkin's Trafalgar Companion (lots of interesting stuff, but his ship values are suspect). I could go on.

    I am credited for historical research for GMT's Flying Colors back in 2004, which is mainly fleet actions. Would have loved a copy of Winfield then. Most of my values were based on Lavery. Still got the Dreadnoughts wrong, though, but you can find corrected counters in the Ship of the Line expansion. I redid my Trafalgar stats in 2014 for a German friend who owns a small company called Strategema Games, with essentially a single product, Admiral's Order, with hand-crafted wooden 'ships' with detachable masts. His production process is painfully slow, though, so the number of Admiral's Order sets (all five versions combined) must be around 200. I doubt whether many have left Germany.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Sometimes those are all we have to go by--even when designing the official releases, sometimes we have to gather all the data we can about ships similar to our target, compare them and make a best guess from that to try to cover a hole in the historical record. We do our best to make them the most educated guesses we can, but sometimes our best guess is really all we can do when it's either that or no ship, like how we got HMS Jason as a backside for Protee after I scuttled nonexistent "HMS Actionnaire."
    Precisely the sort of thing I did for Flying Colors. Glad to report that 95 % of my research still holds up after more than 10 years. As (in)famous game designer Richard Berg once said, a game gets published, never finished.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Also, when Tonnant comes out next year sometime, as an 80-gunner she'll help narrow things down a little--don't be afraid to publish a preliminary and then revise, since these are unofficial numbers for unofficial logs.
    Another ship which is a bit of a curiosity w.r.t. armament. 18 32-pounder carronades on the upper works. Interesting to see the stats.

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    Gotcha--wasn't attempting to start a peeing contest, just to note that I'm dealing with this stuff in a pro capacity at least a little bit every day. :) Good to know David and I aren't the only ones around here--I don't think myself indispensable, but I have some large databases in construction for Ares supporting both Wings and Sails that if the idiots around my area drive me to a stroke or aneurysm or something, it'd be nice to know that there'd be somebody to pick up where I leave off and see 'em through.

    It is a little frustrating at times trying to make SOL's work in a game engine best suited to frigate actions, isn't it?

    Don't know what they're gonna go with, but when we were working her up for Anchorage Stats Committee unofficial numbers, we basically treated Tonnant as a 74-on-steroids and slowed down the damage-tracks with not much boost to starting maximums. When he's back, you might ask Bligh about the Stats Committee if you're interested; I'm a data-miner not a stats converter, though I seem to be our primary "draught finder" too. LOL
    Last edited by Diamondback; 04-02-2017 at 08:37.
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    Distinguished company here, I am only a gamer who wants to build a fleet, Trafalgar being the final goal, so any pointers always welcome. I used other ships from the game to give a base for my proposals so not anything on the technical aspect.

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    David is David Manley, I assume. Another person to note is Mark Barker. He took over my role of researcher for the Flying Colors expansion Ship of the Line. It's a small world.

    Draughts, I'm pretty sure they can be calculated, but I do not know how. So I am stuck with interpolating. to you!

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    Correct re DM... "draughts" in this case being the guy wo trawls Greenwich's website looking for plans scans.

    Don't look at me on math, it took three tries to beat pre-calc through my thick skull--letters got no business being in numbers' places! lol
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